These are not universal truths...

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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby iambiguous » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:11 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Aegean wrote:If god doesn't say so, then it must be an us versus they say so.
So why not come to a compromise so that we all say so?

He cannot think outside this premise.
That something can be objectively probable and still not a product of subjective whimsy, is beyond his mind's ability to process.
That's where he's trapped....in the hole in his own mind.
He wants to change the world, or pull it into his dilemma with him....as a final act of vengeance.
Nothing to work with here.
It's already gone.

Very well said. But I think we are now preaching to the choir. It is also a victory for him, or a vengeance as you accurately put it, if the thread continues focused on him, because this allows him to 'respond' and potentially 'play the victim' or say we are focusing on him rather than his ideas, with some hint that it is because we have been triggered into terror.

I think it is useful to point out when he starts hijacking threads and to perhaps warn off people who start finding their shoes or feet sticking in his goo.

But then we gotta ignore him.

The body will form a cyst around cancerous tissue, to deny it nutrition, to wall it off. But if we keep building the wall, after the cancerous tissue is walled in, well, that causes other problems.


Yep, we can always count on KT to back up the arguments aimed at making me the problem here.

If only from the perspective of the "pragmatist" rather than that of the "idealist" or the "objectivist". :lol:
Objectivists: Like shooting fish in a barrel!

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:40 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Aegean wrote: See what I mean?
He is against objective morality, then demands that others defend it, because he needs to nullify it to feel he is making a difference.


What single righteous behavior has been demonstrated to be obligatory for all rational men and women. Just one.
Self-respect.
Integrity.
Honesty with self.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby promethean75 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:47 pm

That can't be right, because I'm an iniquitous self-loathing compulsive liar... but I'm rational too.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:54 pm

promethean75 wrote:That can't be right, because I'm an iniquitous self-loathing compulsive liar... but I'm rational too.
That's why you see yourself in iambiguous.
A kindred spirit, albeit simpler.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby promethean75 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:59 pm

Wait a minute wait a minute. Clearly I'm more complicated than Biggs.

Biggs ain't I more complicated than you? My intellectual contraptions aren't even comparable to yours.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:00 pm

He hasn't fully appreciated the true power of the nil, and how to use it effectively.
He found one method and stuck with it.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby promethean75 » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:54 pm

It is so. Biggs has not mastered the power of the nil as I have. But in time he may. I have much to teach him if he so chooses to learn.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:31 pm

Aegean wrote:
iambiguous wrote:
Aegean wrote: See what I mean?
He is against objective morality, then demands that others defend it, because he needs to nullify it to feel he is making a difference.


What single righteous behavior has been demonstrated to be obligatory for all rational men and women. Just one.
Self-respect.
Integrity.
Honesty with self.


Okay, did or did not the objectivists down through the ages [from Jesus Christ and Muhammad to Adolph Hitler and Vladimir Lenin] manage to convince themselves that they embodied all three?

In other words, we'll need a context. A set of circumstances and a point of view regarding how one either is or is not obligated as a rational human being to earn self-respect, integrity and honesty about one's "self".

Why don't we start here with the components of "I" in a particular context. You can pick it.

You know mine.
Objectivists: Like shooting fish in a barrel!

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:35 pm

And how do we determine to what degree they embodied these values?


Note to Other
The only correct answer is..."We are all equally wrong, and the only thing left is to make compromises and agree what the most communally beneficial lie is to be our 'truth'."
Emphasis on "equally wrong" - parity in the negative.
Power of the Nil.

We are all poor - Marxism
We are all sinners - Abrahamism

If not absolutely one, then absolutely nil.
Last edited by Aegean on Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:37 pm

promethean75 wrote:Wait a minute wait a minute. Clearly I'm more complicated than Biggs.

Biggs ain't I more complicated than you? My intellectual contraptions aren't even comparable to yours.


I suggest that, first of all, we get a crystal clear technical definition of "complicated" first.

Then create a new thread with a poll so that we can all vote on it democratically.
Objectivists: Like shooting fish in a barrel!

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:39 pm

Yes...let's democratically vote what 'truth' is.
There is no objectivity...all is subjective.

This is projection:
John Fowles wrote:He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest.


Objectivist:
Anyone who shows certainty that his opinion is superior to that of another. There is no way to objectively determine which subjective viewpoint is superior - if it ain't absolute it is like everything else.
Nietzsche's perspectivism corrupted, just like everything else.
The correct demeanour is uniform skepticism - Marxist distribution of error - to the level of being trapped in procrastination and uncertainty, where the only way out is communal agreement, or an egotistical declaration of will.
If you do not show the correct level of humility - in the form of a disclaimer - then you are an evil Objectivist.
To bring about the future, desired Utopia - Marxism/Abrahamism - we must level man down to uniform dust.

Ha!!
Hey Brian...this is what you are.
You are just more sly, cynical and clever - you self-deceive more convincingly.
The Ego and His Own....Ha!!!
A less stern Stirner.
Modern day Diogenes....self-pleasuring himself in the Agora, to be seen, to 'make a point' of his exclusivity; to spit ni the eye of authority - da paulice!!!

Selectively skeptical; selectively stringent; selectively aware - self-deceiving. Best lies are those that sample reality, not those that contradict it.
Forever innocent, victim of otherness...whatever be thy name oh lord of otherness.
Last edited by Aegean on Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:52 pm

Aegean wrote:And how do we determine if they were honest?


Note to Other
The only correct answer is..."We are all equally wrong, and the only thing left is to make compromises and agree what the most communally beneficial lie is to be our 'truth'."
Emphasis on "equally wrong" - parity in the negative.
Power of the Nil


We'll need a context of course.

How about the impeachment and the removal from office of Donald Trump.

Has he been impeached and removed from office as of today? No, in fact, in the either/or world that we all live in, he is still in office. On the other hand, is that a "universal truth"? Technically as it were?

Now this part:

Should he be removed from office?

Is there an "only correct" answer here as well? And how might any particular individual's answer, as a value judgment, be construed in turn as either an objective truth or a universal truth?

How is this...

The only correct answer is..."We are all equally wrong, and the only thing left is to make compromises and agree what the most communally beneficial lie is to be our 'truth'."
Emphasis on "equally wrong" - parity in the negative.
Power of the Nil


...applicable to my example above?
Objectivists: Like shooting fish in a barrel!

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:55 pm

Intent, imbecile...nothing can be measured without triangulation.

Subject/Object/Motive
What is the goal? The destination.
There is no blanket value-judgment, except in the simple minds of the world.

Trump's impeachment- as if I could give a fuck what happens to that Zionist - should be evaluated in relation to the desired goal.
Yours is universal parity, no?
I do not believe in this, because I've never seen it.
Can you show me an example of absolute parity to be inspired?
Last edited by Aegean on Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:57 pm

σάτυρος wrote:Yes...let's democratically vote what 'truth' is.
There is no objectivity...all is subjective.

This is projection:
John Fowles wrote:He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest.


Objectivist:
Anyone who shows certainty that his opinion is superior to that of another. There is no way to objectively determine which subjective viewpoint is superior - if it ain't absolute it is like everything else.
Nietzsche's perspectivism corrupted, just like everything else.
The correct demeanour is uniform skepticism - Marxist distribution of error - to the level of being trapped in procrastination and uncertainty, where the only way out is communal agreement, or an egotistical declaration of will.
If you do not show the correct level of humility - in the form of a disclaimer - then you are an evil Objectivist.
To bring about the future, desired Utopia - Marxism/Abrahamism - we must level man down to uniform dust.

Ha!!
Hey Brian...this is what you are.
You are just more sly, cynical and clever - you self-deceive more convincingly.
The Ego and His Own....Ha!!!
A less stern Stirner.
Modern day Diogenes....self-pleasuring himself in the Agora, to be seen, to 'make a point' of his exclusivity; to spit ni the eye of authority - da paulice!!!

Selectively skeptical; selectively stringent; selectively aware - self-deceiving. Best lies are those that sample reality, not those that contradict it.
Forever innocent, victim of otherness...whatever be thy name oh lord of otherness.


Note to others :banana-linedance:

Unless of course I'm wrong.
Objectivists: Like shooting fish in a barrel!

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:58 pm

See...disclaimers.
It is how you evade being an..."evil objectivist".
An admission of fallibility.
Like the admission of sinfulness.

Then add patronizing cynicism to pretend indifferent superiority, without actually stating it.

Brian....he's your man-child. Ha!!!
The Power of the Nil.
Seen it a million times.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby iambiguous » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:07 pm

σάτυρος wrote:Intent, imbecile...nothing can be measured without triangulation.

Subject/Object/Motive
What is the goal? The destination.
There is no blanket value-judgment, except in the simple minds of the world.

Trump's impeachment- as if I could give a fuck what happens to that Zionist - should be evaluated in relation to the desired goal.
Yours is universal parity, no?
I do not believe in this, because I've never seen it.
Can you show me an example of absolute parity to be inspired?


And over the edge they go!!!

I've been doing this to minds of his ilk now for years, but: it still manages to amuse me. In other words, bringing them to this. Fit to be tied. Huffing and puffing, sputtering, babbling, stammering...beside themselves with exasperation.

Or, you know, so it seems to me. :wink:
Objectivists: Like shooting fish in a barrel!

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:12 pm

Ha!!!
Nothing.

Brian...this is the kind of mind you identify with.
I would pity you...but you are innocent, no?
Nothing that happened, happens or will happen to you is of your making.
It's all part of universal order.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby promethean75 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:16 pm

Brian...this is the kind of mind you identify with.


Are you saying me and Biggs is like peas and carrots?
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:19 pm

Beef and broccoli.
Shit and stain.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby promethean75 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:22 pm

You know if these goddamn Honduran Mexicans would do some fucking work, I might get out of here by five and have some time to do philosophy with you fellas.

It don't take no thirty minutes to paint a piece of brick molding, Antonio. Vamo-fucking-nos!
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Aegean » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:30 pm

I know...you are the best institutionalized mind on the internets.

But back to reality...oops, there goes gravity.
He's you in fifteen years when fate leads you outside the apartment of an old married hag, peeping in to master-bait, and a mule kicks you in the head as you try to escape her husband's wrath.
Dead from the neck up.

Nil.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby promethean75 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:40 pm

outside the apartment of an old married hag, peeping in to master-bait, and a mule kicks you in the head


Bro. You stay away from retirement homes and any properties that might have mules on them. That's like voyeurism 101 dude.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:52 pm

Aegean wrote:Brian....he's your man-child. Ha!!!
The Power of the Nil.
Seen it a million times.
Though to give obscene credit where it is due....
rarely does one see it in such a stubborn neverending form.
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby iambiguous » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:33 pm

The Power of the Nil.


It is true that once you have convinced yourself that nil is absolutely, objectively moral or politically correct, you are free to rationalize any and all behaviors.

However unnatural certain objectivists among us insist otherwise.

On the other hand, the objectivists are always stuck thinking and feeling and saying and doing only that which they insist is in sync with the real me in sync with the right [rational] thing to do.

If they dare do otherwise they risk the censure of those who no longer view them as "one of us". They can then get thrown into, say, the dungeon. Or, for those convinced that Communism or fascism embodies the only "natural behaviors", they may even be eliminated altogether.

However dangerous and destructive nihilism can be at least the nihilists are afforded so many, many more options. It just depends on how narcissistic or sociopathic they have become as nihilists. The nihilists who control the world's economy, for example, make life a living hell for the millions who get in the way of their wealth and power. And heaven help those who cross the paths of nihilists who choose to become serial killers and vicious thugs.

But those sort of choices are no more necessarily a part of being a nihilist than the choices of those nihilists who do everything they can to actually make life better for others.

Right?
Objectivists: Like shooting fish in a barrel!

He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: These are not universal truths...

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:03 pm

No matter who you are, you still have a value system, and that immediately makes you not a nihilist.

A true nihilist would just sit and die of dehydration, but the joke is in them, because they had the value of no value
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