The Helper In The Dream

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Moderator: MagsJ

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sat May 11, 2019 1:16 am

Del Overs, -the above is unsupportive in it'self and will bring about further needs for clarification, and we are still at Your first request for such clarification. I can not as yet offer such support without bringing in thematic interdisciplinary unity. Here is a suggestive one:

AGVA FESTSCHRIFT



Shifting frontiers of transcendence in theology, philosophy and science














ABSTRACT

"This article dealt cursorily with developments in theology, philosophy and the sciences that have contributed to what one might call horizontal transcendence. The premise is that humans have evolved into beings that are wired for transcendence. Transcendence is described in terms of the metaphor of frontiers and frontier posts. Although the frontiers of transcendence shift according to the insights, understanding and needs of every epoch and world view, it remains transcendent, even in its immanent mode. Diverse perceptions of that frontier normally coexist in every era and we can only discern a posteriori which was the dominant one. Frontiers are fixed with reference to the epistemologies, notions of the subject and power structures of a given era. From a theological point of view, encounter with the transcendent affords insight, not into the essence of transcendence, but into human self-understanding and understanding of our world. Transcendence enters into the picture when an ordinary human experience acquires a depth and an immediacy that are attributed to an act of God. In philosophy, transcendence evolved from a noumenal metaphysics focused on the object (Plato), via emphasis on the epistemological structure and limits of the knowing subject (Kant) and an endeavour to establish a dynamic subject-object dialectics (Hegel), to the assimilation of transcendence into human existence (Heidegger). In the sciences certain developments opened up possibilities for God to act in non-interventionist ways. The limitations of such an approach are considered, as well as promising new departures – and their limitations – in the neurosciences. From all of this I conclude that an immanent-transcendent approach is plausible for our day and age."


Particularly, the relation between the inner/outer terms of imminance/transcendence are pointed to as inter penetrable.
-
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sat May 11, 2019 1:41 am

Meno_ wrote:Del Overs, -the above is unsupportive in it'self and will bring about further needs for clarification, and we are still at Your first request for such clarification. I can not as yet offer such support without bringing in thematic interdisciplinary unity. Here is a suggestive one:

AGVA FESTSCHRIFT



Shifting frontiers of transcendence in theology, philosophy and science














ABSTRACT

"This article dealt cursorily with developments in theology, philosophy and the sciences that have contributed to what one might call horizontal transcendence. The premise is that humans have evolved into beings that are wired for transcendence. Transcendence is described in terms of the metaphor of frontiers and frontier posts. Although the frontiers of transcendence shift according to the insights, understanding and needs of every epoch and world view, it remains transcendent, even in its immanent mode. Diverse perceptions of that frontier normally coexist in every era and we can only discern a posteriori which was the dominant one. Frontiers are fixed with reference to the epistemologies, notions of the subject and power structures of a given era. From a theological point of view, encounter with the transcendent affords insight, not into the essence of transcendence, but into human self-understanding and understanding of our world. Transcendence enters into the picture when an ordinary human experience acquires a depth and an immediacy that are attributed to an act of God. In philosophy, transcendence evolved from a noumenal metaphysics focused on the object (Plato), via emphasis on the epistemological structure and limits of the knowing subject (Kant) and an endeavour to establish a dynamic subject-object dialectics (Hegel), to the assimilation of transcendence into human existence (Heidegger). In the sciences certain developments opened up possibilities for God to act in non-interventionist ways. The limitations of such an approach are considered, as well as promising new departures – and their limitations – in the neurosciences. From all of this I conclude that an immanent-transcendent approach is plausible for our day and age."


Particularly, the relation between the inner/outer terms of imminance/transcendence are pointed to as inter penetrable.
-



So if that reasoning is followed, there is no distinction between "of" or "within" , between the content and it's defining mode. This would suggest an inter penetrability between the symbol and content in dreams suggestive of the absolute Being or the set containing all sets , including the set that is particular, vis the particular dream containing the self as an object within the dream.
When the self is excused, then it experiences the dream objectively, or non transcendentally.

The totem becomes taboo, when its firm includes its phallic aspect per interpretive realization, at times becoming allied within its structural modality, (functioning as a phallus) or outside of it, merely using 'horizontal, sub conscious representation with no other objectification, and objective. )
Here again, objective displays change in differing spatial arrangements = interchange of patterned relationships if involved spatially determined 'bits' of designated parts= in the dream.

As the later, above reference indicates, there is no distinction between an imminent and an exigent state (psychic), no clear cut exclusion, but a peneyrability. The dream may refer to any different psychic states, whether the source from million years in the past or yesterday, their set ( or context may be used safely) are interchangeable causally ( determentally or not) , and the interpretation of symbols may fluctuate between a Freudian repressive causality, or a broader consuming contextuality( content) , without a clear cut conclusion of the spatial determinants within the continuum of that particular dreamers psychic reality.

This is why I see vertical continuum to be totally unreliable on the whole, because it is a one dimensionality that restricts meaning to the most peripheral slice of understanding. Its like cutting a circle out of a sphere.

I'm sure that even this would be insufficient to try understand, rather than simply know the language behind the description, but it does attempt to answer Your first paraphrased narrative. Its a start.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sat May 11, 2019 1:49 am

Attempted to look at the next 3 paraphrased requests for clarification, and surprisingly found interpenetrability to/with the previous answer given , making work less complex, in part by using the first question and answer referentially, without having to repeat identical or even similar suggestions.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Sat May 11, 2019 6:15 pm

Meno_ wrote: Your first question is caught up in semantic complexity..,

There is nothing complex about it. Any interpretation 'within' symbolic content (not just a dream, anything) is subject to the content's parameters, i.e., the content/symbols dictate the interpretation. Just like when you read the words (symbols) in a novel they dictate the sequence and myriad of characteristics that give substance to whatever the story may be. "Of the content" is different positionally. It's like the interpretation of a critic reviewing the novel, he or she has a different engagement with it. Granted, there are occasions where one can be loose with interpretations but in discussions of this type precision is important otherwise we do end up at cross-semantic purposes.

The reason I asked the question of the difference is because you referenced it to 'absolute mind'. I doubt that anyone knows enough of absolute mind to characterize its phenomena as real or unreal. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the aforementioned Hermetic principle which states that everything is Mind and thus 'real'.

As for the rest of the sentence: "..dissection of hybrid re-presentation between cognitive differentials is sourced in definitions..", that seems like it's referencing it to some kind of dementia. Whether or not that is your intention, I'm not sure.

Meno_ wrote:Del Overs

Now there's a perfect example of a positional symbol error yielding an interesting perspective. Even I didn't notice that. Thank you. :-)

Meno_ wrote:..thematic interdisciplinary unity..

Thematic examinations are all good and well but they have to exhibit a core, organizational construct. Much has been said in recent years about cross-disciplinary approaches and it's definitely progressive but there has to be a defined objective otherwise it can become a grab-anything-and-see-what-sticks approach. If you want a collage then no problem,.but if it's a well-integrated resolution that is sought, then you'd better have that core. Following is an example of this and may I add one that refers to what I said previously about, ".. free association modes that makes the sequence of interpretation by the reader a kind of patchwork." in reference to you manner of presenting information.

You and others are probably aware of those little, blank books that you can draw something on, like a stick-man, and on each page you draw the man a little differently than the previous page. When you finish drawing on all the pages you flip them fast and it gives the illusion of the stick-man walking, jumping, whatever. There are times when I will be reading your comments and it's as if the drawings of the stick-man were pulled, shuffled, and then reinserted into the book. The fast-flipping then presents something different. The 'sequence' is there, the 'content' is there, but the 'context' seems a little squirrelly. Nothing wrong with that, but you can see how the interpreter could have a trying time with it.

Just out of curiosity, and respectfully, are you high when you write your replies? Again, nothing wrong with that. Personally, at this time in my life I smoke a little herb maybe once every 6 months or so. Maybe when I do so next time I will come back to this thread and then I'll say, "Ahh, yes, now I get where he was coming from". :-D

Whether the revelation justifies anything, that's another matter.
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sat May 11, 2019 6:46 pm

Del Ivers wrote:
Meno_ wrote: Your first question is caught up in semantic complexity..,

There is nothing complex about it. Any interpretation 'within' symbolic content (not just a dream, anything) is subject to the content's parameters, i.e., the content/symbols dictate the interpretation. Just like when you read the words (symbols) in a novel they dictate the sequence and myriad of characteristics that give substance to whatever the story may be. "Of the content" is different positionally. It's like the interpretation of a critic reviewing the novel, he or she has a different engagement with it. Granted, there are occasions where one can be loose with interpretations but in discussions of this type precision is important otherwise we do end up at cross-semantic purposes.

The reason I asked the question of the difference is because you referenced it to 'absolute mind'. I doubt that anyone knows enough of absolute mind to characterize its phenomena as real or unreal. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the aforementioned Hermetic principle which states that everything is Mind and thus 'real'.

As for the rest of the sentence: "..dissection of hybrid re-presentation between cognitive differentials is sourced in definitions..", that seems like it's referencing it to some kind of dementia. Whether or not that is your intention, I'm not sure.

Meno_ wrote:Del Overs

Now there's a perfect example of a positional symbol error yielding an interesting perspective. Even I didn't notice that. Thank you. :-)

Meno_ wrote:..thematic interdisciplinary unity..

Thematic examinations are all good and well but they have to exhibit a core, organizational construct. Much has been said in recent years about cross-disciplinary approaches and it's definitely progressive but there has to be a defined objective otherwise it can become a grab-anything-and-see-what-sticks approach. If you want a collage then no problem,.but if it's a well-integrated resolution that is sought, then you'd better have that core. Following is an example of this and may I add one that refers to what I said previously about, ".. free association modes that makes the sequence of interpretation by the reader a kind of patchwork." in reference to you manner of presenting information.

You and others are probably aware of those little, blank books that you can draw something on, like a stick-man, and on each page you draw the man a little differently than the previous page. When you finish drawing on all the pages you flip them fast and it gives the illusion of the stick-man walking, jumping, whatever. There are times when I will be reading your comments and it's as if the drawings of the stick-man were pulled, shuffled, and then reinserted into the book. The fast-flipping then presents something different. The 'sequence' is there, the 'content' is there, but the 'context' seems a little squirrelly. Nothing wrong with that, but you can see how the interpreter could have a trying time with it.

Just out of curiosity, and respectfully, are you high when you write your replies? Again, nothing wrong with that. Personally, at this time in my life I smoke a little herb maybe once every 6 months or so. Maybe when I do so next time I will come back to this thread and then I'll say, "Ahh, yes, now I get where he was coming from". :-D

Whether the revelation justifies anything, that's another matter.



Del Ivers,

Ok. I knew this was coming. And I told You so. And I covered only the differential question regarding "of", and "within"

My using anything has absolutely no bearing in this forum. as You appropriately poi t out, and mark my use of "absolute" in this description of my self taking on psychic self awareness, in objectifying states of mind.
That trying to be devoid any emotional attachment. and staying in neutral position concerning this and any other issue or proposition that comes along, is my own earned preference.

The sub stance of conveying content will follow. Incidentally , I appreciate Your comments that pertain to Your dream, and maybe if You are somewhat deterministic in Your life's thematical superposition, You may start co considering me as some kind of helper , objectively speaking , and possibly start in earnest getting somewhere honestly and with objectivity.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Sat May 11, 2019 10:40 pm

Meno_ wrote:..is my own earned preference.

Absolutely. I neither stated nor implied that it wasn't.

Meno_ wrote:That trying to be devoid any emotional attachment..

I may approach something with 'emotion', but discussing things such as we have been doing and in different topics with others in the forum is a different level of the application of emotion. That others regard my text narrative as emotional, or any other state for that matter, is no proof that such is my core makeup. Think of the psycholigist's fallacy as noted by William James where he:

"...insisted repeatedly that it was fallacious to assume that the research participant's experience was to be understood in terms of the readily-available categories of the researcher. The psychologist's fallacy (of which all researchers concerned with experience may fall foul, not only psychologists) involves a confusion of the standpoints of the researcher and the researched."

In the last sentence of your last posting, you state: "You may start co considering me as some kind of helper , objectively speaking , and possibly start in earnest getting somewhere honestly and with objectivity."

Who is to to say what or whom is earnest? Who is to say I'm not being honest nor displaying objectivity? Your 'standpoint' is not necessarily my standpoint. You may consider yourself a helper, and that's nice enough. But not necessarily when it's wholly based on your own, readily-available categories.

Look at the social media (forums among them) world that we witness at the present. It's overly-saturated with people defending their standpoints even against the most obvious of facts. It's like Descartes', "I am", on steroids and ready to rumble. I'm not saying you're one of them, I'm just pointing out the field we're in. Advocacy or not is your call as likewise it is mine.

I just think that you and I, us and others, we're on different frequencies. And if regardless of all of that defending we are able to communicate and enjoy what basic understanding confers, that's cool. Better that than being paupers and delusionally regarding ourselves as kings.

Cheers

The Philosopher in Meditation
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sat May 11, 2019 11:38 pm

Fair enough, we are on differing frequencies, and an intwntion matters, where a good one does make a huge sifference, in spite a less worthy an outcome , than a lack or a bad intentional start, luckily ending better worthy., more admirable.

Intentions are even less measurable in this age of pre-fabricated desires of outcomes, all measured for exacting the most tractable profitability.

Therefore , there are may not be unexpected surprises when that fine line between honesty and fabrication is broken.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby MagsJ » Wed May 22, 2019 3:53 am

Del Ivers wrote:So, have you had a dream(s) like that? Did it seem like someone in the dream helped you out not just in the context of a dream situation but more in the sense that they were as aforementioned, out of sync, so to speak, with the narrative of the dream, that as example, it was like you were watching a movie in a theater and then an usher goes up to you and tells you something whereby you had to leave the theater/movie. That's just a quick example that came to mind but I think by now and with what I have related you get the idea. :-)

In my dreams of similar unfolding to your's, I am always ALWAYS ignored, and this is something I have had to get used to, to my reality in the cold light of day.. the majority don't help me because they think that the next person I come across will help me, so they leave it to that person I come across to help this fellow citizen out, and then that person doesn't help me because they think that the next person I come across will help this fellow citizen out, so they leave it to the next person I will come across to help me, ad infinitum.

The story of my life, and a story I've got used to.. my personalised self-help manual, if you will.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 18445
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Wed May 22, 2019 4:43 pm

MagsJ wrote:In my dreams of similar unfolding to your's, I am always ALWAYS ignored..


For clarification, are you saying that in your dreams rather than a helper, or for that matter anyone, that what you've experienced is no one helping?
Is this just in the dream? In life?
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby MagsJ » Thu May 30, 2019 9:07 am

Del Ivers wrote:
MagsJ wrote:In my dreams of similar unfolding to your's, I am always ALWAYS ignored..
For clarification, are you saying that in your dreams rather than a helper, or for that matter anyone, that what you've experienced is no one helping?
Is this just in the dream? In life?

Both! both in my dreams and in real life.. my dreams always being reflective of my reality.

I was offered help once.. the offer of a job.. I thought myself too young to be thrown into the adult world, for others to try to take advantage of me, but since that one offer I've been left on my own.. it's very character-building you know.

Perhaps I'm black-listed on some system somewhere as a renegade after saying no.. they didn't take it kindly, you see.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 18445
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Thu May 30, 2019 3:11 pm

MagsJ wrote:Both! both in my dreams and in real life.. my dreams always being reflective of my reality.

In the 'helper' dreams I guess that if I were to really analyze the psychological aspects then maybe I would find correspondences with the awake state. But in many of them they (helper) seemed more of something apart as I've mentioned. In other words, the 'helper' was someone who assisted me in the dream but who did not seem to be a part of the dream. The analogy that comes to mind is a bookmark, it shows your place in a book but it is not part of what the book is about. The other analogy which I previously described is that of an usher who is part of the movie experience but not the movie.

MagsJ wrote:I was offered help once.. the offer of a job.. I thought myself too young to be thrown into the adult world, for others to try to take advantage of me, but since that one offer I've been left on my own.. it's very character-building you know.

The description is one of those where I read it and from 'between the lines' I can make a guess as to what is being referred to, but it's too ambiguous for me to offer an informed view on it. And by that I don't mean to solicit further details, it's just that there is an indication of a reference but nothing 'about' the reference. It's like me saying, I went to this place and the people there were really mean to me. You or anyone else would be asking, what place? What people?

Then throw in, "Perhaps I'm black-listed on some system somewhere as a renegade after saying no.. they didn't take it kindly, you see.", and you can see how it would be difficult as to what's what.

Having said that, and since we're talking about dreams, then when you say, "..some system somewhere.." are you referring to a system other than in the awake state, i.e., other than a social system or other organizational element in reality?
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby promethean75 » Thu May 30, 2019 4:46 pm

I'm seeing a lot of talk about dream helpers but nobody has said a word about hamburger helper. Are you all aware of the variety of delicious entrees made possible by this revolutionary prepackaged ingredient kit? Ought you to say something about this kind of helper instead? How many times has a dream helper put something delicious on your table?

Nuff said.
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Thu May 30, 2019 6:52 pm

Del Ivers wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Both! both in my dreams and in real life.. my dreams always being reflective of my reality.

In the 'helper' dreams I guess that if I were to really analyze the psychological aspects then maybe I would find correspondences with the awake state. But in many of them they (helper) seemed more of something apart as I've mentioned. In other words, the 'helper' was someone who assisted me in the dream but who did not seem to be a part of the dream. The analogy that comes to mind is a bookmark, it shows your place in a book but it is not part of what the book is about. The other analogy which I previously described is that of an usher who is part of the movie experience but not the movie.

MagsJ wrote:I was offered help once.. the offer of a job.. I thought myself too young to be thrown into the adult world, for others to try to take advantage of me, but since that one offer I've been left on my own.. it's very character-building you know.

The description is one of those where I read it and from 'between the lines' I can make a guess as to what is being referred to, but it's too ambiguous for me to offer an informed view on it. And by that I don't mean to solicit further details, it's just that there is an indication of a reference but nothing 'about' the reference. It's like me saying, I went to this place and the people there were really mean to me. You or anyone else would be asking, what place? What people?

Then throw in, "Perhaps I'm black-listed on some system somewhere as a renegade after saying no.. they didn't take it kindly, you see.", and you can see how it would be difficult as to what's what.

Having said that, and since we're talking about dreams, then when you say, "..some system somewhere.." are you referring to a system other than in the awake state, i.e., other than a social system or other organizational element in reality?




It does depend on the depth of the reference, and the will of the dreamer, and the capacity to disassociate lapsed elements.

Objectivism is based two ways apparently still relevantly described as socially contracting in terms of viewing man as either a savage one, or a noble savage one. And either one or the other becomes the source of binding.

That is why intuitionism is still prevalent and indicative of excluded criteria, and those programmed to receive, accept the proposition of help, and the idea of the helper.

However, they may communicate merely on basis of a language who j connects syntactically on a very widely spaced variable elements.

Often , as much as the helper or the Hunter reies to makes it's self perceived, it often goes down as two wave fronts going through each other.

The result is a feeling of there is something unseen there there, invisible, ghostly, either sourced out of a feel of empathy or, of antipathy, but most often a willing primary sympathy.

This earnest effort to suspend doubt is borne out of fears of social abandonment , motivated by existential dread of survival.

The perfect wave, the perfect storm, the perfect dream, is the dream within the dream, where the primordial sourcing is apprehended within the notion of levels of evolutionary spacing, where the real dream and the real reality diffuse into each other.

Who then is the helper and who the helped, that becomes a new focus to interpretation .


It becomes the task of reassociation of manifold elements , some excluded and some needing inclusion with a priority of signification .

I tried to bring this up with a former member here, I think his name was Hobbs' Choice ; he gave the notion a summary approval.
Last edited by Meno_ on Thu May 30, 2019 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Thu May 30, 2019 6:55 pm

promethean75 wrote:..nobody has said a word about hamburger helper.

:)

Is your summer diet going well?
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby promethean75 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:39 am

usually i like to start the day with something like a fried egg, bronzed hazelnuts, chanterelles, fresh green garlic, and three blackberries... but when i'm feeling a little bold i might have a waffle sandwiche with cecina, avocado, and a dash of arugula. for lunch i'm usually rather light and minimalist. i might go with a pork cordon bleu with baked apples or a nice chicken francaise. for dinner i usually have something less extravagant like trout filled with salmon mousse in a puff pastry. browned. i like the pastry to be browned with a cinnamon cream butter.
promethean75
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:11 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that sounds delicious!

I worked at one of Montreal's top restaurants (they were going for a Michelin start when they fired me). They didn't make anything that even approached that level of delicious.

I mean, I'm not a super fan of overdoing it with the sweets on a main course, but this is sound as shit. This sounds like a feast.

I'm telling you, people paid $100+ a head. Nothing approaching this level of delicious.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1837
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:45 pm

Meno_ wrote:Who then is the helper and who the helped, that becomes a new focus to interpretation .

That's almost foundational, isn't it? Who are you and who is the other? Religion is an example of something which aimed to give focus to that. Though not particularly the best focus and in one way or another there was always a 'middle man' to check the interpretations.

Maybe the helper is me. I had an experience (not a dream) like that once, where after it was over I wondered if that was me from a different time/dimension visiting myself in this time/reality. One of the questions that I asked myself was that if that was indeed me visiting me, then where will I be, what will I become, that it will be as easy to travel through time/dimensions to visit myself as it would be to now just hop in the car and go somewhere.
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:06 pm

Well, if Peacegirl is right, one need not worry, because who You are, was, will be is always determined. The choices You make always the only choice that could ever have been made.

Your dream regards this quiry, that You have doubt a about sustaining Your identity through time and space.
Your doubt surfaced through time and then suppressed and hence the dream of interpreting what should You become.

Your helper , maybe You, maybe even one of Your family, in struggling to find out who You are ( helper or helped), ((veering between consciousness and sub or even unconsciousness)) symbolically morphing.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:00 pm

Meno_ wrote:The choices You make always the only choice that could ever have been made.

Full-blown determinism? Not too sure of that. Why would a cosmic agency want something fixed to that degree? It would make of our lives nothing more than existentially standardized components. The only upside to that would be if once the standardization is completed that there would be some kind of liberation. Learn to drive the standardized car on the standardized road, then you're free to drive it anywhere in the way you want. Like some kind of Department of Human Vehicles.

Meno_ wrote:You have doubt a about sustaining Your identity through time and space.

In the non-dream experience it seemed like my identity was still in effect somehow, otherwise why would it visit me? And why would the possibility of such seem like a natural answer when I considered it?

Meno_ wrote:Your helper , maybe You, maybe even one of Your family, in struggling to find out who You are

Well, in that possible dimensional context then 'family' would have a very different meaning. Family that I knew in this time-space-line, or family of a larger, cosmic context?
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby MagsJ » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:05 pm

Del Ivers wrote:The description is one of those where I read it and from 'between the lines' I can make a guess as to what is being referred to, but it's too ambiguous for me to offer an informed view on it. And by that I don't mean to solicit further details, it's just that there is an indication of a reference but nothing 'about' the reference. It's like me saying, I went to this place and the people there were really mean to me. You or anyone else would be asking, what place? What people?

Then throw in, "Perhaps I'm black-listed on some system somewhere as a renegade after saying no.. they didn't take it kindly, you see.", and you can see how it would be difficult as to what's what.

Having said that, and since we're talking about dreams, then when you say, "..some system somewhere.." are you referring to a system other than in the awake state, i.e., other than a social system or other organizational element in reality?

Put it this way.. I rang one of our utility companies to make a request, and the call centre operative started shouting at me about a past encounter with the company.. before I'd even mentioned my name or address.. and my telephone number was different to back then, so I could only laugh puzzlingly as this weird RL scenario played out over the telephone and as the operative? continued shouting at me and then hung up.

That was a few years ago.. since then, these no-help dreams have subsided but not replaced by any alternatives, so I have no dreams to guide me in this current time, but I do dream.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 18445
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:45 pm

Did you speak with a supervisor of the company re your experience?

MagsJ wrote:..these no-help dreams have subsided but not replaced by any alternatives, so I have no dreams to guide me in this current time, but I do dream.

There are many dreams one has and often they're not guides for awake concerns.

Did you at one time have a lot of helpful dreams?
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby MagsJ » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:18 pm

Del Ivers wrote:Did you speak with a supervisor of the company re your experience?

MagsJ wrote:..these no-help dreams have subsided but not replaced by any alternatives, so I have no dreams to guide me in this current time, but I do dream.

There are many dreams one has and often they're not guides for awake concerns.

Did you at one time have a lot of helpful dreams?

I did not want to speak to the company after that experience.. I had other options for that service provision, so pursued those options instead.

My dreams have always been guides for awake concerns.. my last prominent one came to pass, and I mentioned it to those concerned, and there it shall rest.

My dreams were always omens and signals and signs, but never helpful no.. I help myself!

I had a vivid (for once) dream two nights back, and it hinted of helpfulness..
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ
User avatar
MagsJ
The Londonist
 
Posts: 18445
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: London, NC1

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:18 pm

Del Overs, "Full-blown determinism? Not too sure of that. Why would a cosmic agency want something fixed to that degree?"

Hyper reality is the apex of demonstrating the maximum beneficial intent of Cosmic Consciousness.
Think of it in the metaphore of photographic imagery.
Before simulation's inception, stillness was the source of whisper inspiring the gentle caress of spring's eternal reminder through her rustling leaves.

No time can focus of Nature's bounty be demonstrated by her, except through such aesthetic obedience to herbdepth, proportions, and stillness.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Del Ivers » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:50 pm

Meno_ wrote:Hyper reality is the apex of demonstrating the maximum beneficial intent of Cosmic Consciousness.

I certainly want to consider it beneficial, and it's in my best interest to do so. But it can be a task knowing personal intent let alone one of a cosmic category.
Del Ivers
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: The Helper In The Dream

Postby Meno_ » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:35 am

Del Ivers wrote:
Meno_ wrote:Hyper reality is the apex of demonstrating the maximum beneficial intent of Cosmic Consciousness.

I certainly want to consider it beneficial, and it's in my best interest to do so. But it can be a task knowing personal intent let alone one of a cosmic category.



What if Jung IS right and there may be a connection?
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5201
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Previous

Return to Psychology and Mind



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron