Satori or below

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:41 pm

Is the concept of reincarnation plausible?

Given the idea that karma determines a station in life/death( if, presumably they are somehow connected), could it manifest in the way it would work?

Ok, lets say Your present life based on Your own participation to free YOURSELF from karmic cause and effect, (not only for yourself, but also for the myriad of predecessors who came before you,) whose karma are allegedly responsible for:your present state; could it be that your next station will better or worse in your next incarnation, do to these casual chains?

Let's assume that within the experiences we call 'life', animals and other organisms may also be included.

And again, let's assume that by messing up cause and effect big time , and meaning -messing up -falling drastically, or surfacing abruptly ,(.

For both are very much out of ordonary ordinary experience.

A lot of assumptions and primordial presumptions lead the way for either direction, for if the idea that one is responsible for the extreme form a for both directions , the present incarnation may be responsible for, the awareness that may leave the current holder totally unprepared to manage.

So if the fall is considered, then that fall and the repositioning of the identifiable aspects of it may not correspond to the conscious choice in the the assigned role.

Again, suppose, that a very heinous and terrible person degrades to the lowest moral identity possible, as an example he is a Hitler like mass murderer, and In his next life moral justification for a state of being as such , as member of the human race , mayb not suffice as a state of being in such an existence. He may be condemned to being a low level animal, an intelligent one like a swine.
Quite when newly born, it generally is bred to swather in dirt, and end at the end of a butcher's knife.

Does it intuitive it's fate, even at a minimum, and does that somehow lessen his motivation. to initiate an upward evolutionary direction? (By the supposed meritorious action of becoming fodder to higher human beings)

May well be that his evolution. could be very slow, and the lucky ones are those excellent specimens , who find themselves havens, such as zoos , where he dimly perceives himself as an unnoticably slow motivated animal sichbas a sloe.

Their existence will offer their it's own recompense, since the low level of consciousness will affect it as an anesthetic, by rewarding it with less conscious feeling toward the degree of pain involved in devoluting sense .
Pain of sense will form am equitable ring around the reward of devolution, and increasing pain , as this goes on, will accelerate the process, finally killing all sense of spatial temporal identity and recognition of situational criteria.

A very similar pain involved sudden elevation, and the most acute elevation. Includes the primary surge into the objective attainment of Satori on a subjective level.

The pain may be bacon to a birth, where the fetus hasn't break the primal bond with the uterus.

In that sense, each new birth may experience Sartori at the very inception of coming up from a dark cave, and the pain and the consciousness of light may be the primal characteristic of each new incarnation.

This is why certain exceptional children may be likened , by virtue of their keen maturity and am unusual degree of talent they appear to possess in their various endeavors.

Of the pain overwhelms them to a point where no amount of prior incarnation can justifies their primordial fears and hopes, they must be heading for an either / or course of total beravement - hell, without any possibility of salvation - or a state of absolute enclosure Inn the highest realm - heaven - , with no further need to disintegrate . if this is what goes on, then , rather have absolute lack of conscious motive to progress toward an upward evolutionary path, the path must be directed toward a total conscious inclusion in the most general symbiotic relationship with all things specified.

The either/or is supplanted by the good and evil.

On the devolition may reach a critical moment along the way , where a sudden burst of realization may reveal this, causing a sudden twist in the downward course , willing with an immense power of desire , to transfigure into a more stable and less violent being, as a deeply rooted tree.
Naturally a very much higher anesthetic will leave this being in state a very much deprived conscious.

This lack is to some degree more punishing then going again, through the evolutionary ladder once again.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:24 am

The majority of Hindu religions believe in reincarnation, i.e. the whole mental self of a person can be transmigrated to animals or some higher beings.

Rebirth in Buddhism refers to its teaching that the actions of a person lead to a new existence after death, in endless cycles called saṃsāra. This cycle is considered to be dukkha, unsatisfactory and painful. The cycle stops only if liberation is achieved by insight and the extinguishing of desire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebirth_(Buddhism)


Some Buddhists believe in rebirth.
Tibetan Buddhists believe in reincarnation, e.g. the Dalai Lama is reborn in some degree as a new child somewhere.
However, Buddhism-proper do not provide for the concept of rebirth as above.

I believe the concept of reincarnation and rebirth are driven by desperate psychology to soothe the inherent existential crisis.

Everything is inter-connected and inter-being, i.e. technically, one can trace a hurricane in Florida to a flap of a butterfly' wings in China in the slightest degrees. Thus our actions can effect the whole Earth and universe, our own future behaviors and that of future generations.

However to imply a sense-of-self and self-consciousness moving and reincarnating and reborn from one dead person to another body is absurd and irrational. As mentioned the sole reason for such ideas is due to existential psychology.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:29 am

Thanks for Your response and I would like to go on with it.

The idea oxcired occurred to me, that proof can be gathered other ways, using geometric patterns in the following manner.

The idea of energy transfer is indivisible within and without closed systems.
The conscious personality can be viewed as a combining of.triangular shapes , forming a circle, with a d(x) of ever shortening side, encompassed by
diminishing vertices enclosed by two isoscolese sides.

As the side which encompasses smaller and smaller of the circumference, that could be linked to the metaphore of humam types, subtypes as ego' s and personalities.

The subtypes will naturally be much more numerous, with increasing numbers as to more minute as the angles are traced to the vertices, with the point of the vertices form a virtual unity of ansolute identity with every point on the gross circumference.

This virtuality is both a hypothetical on- at the point of the vertices and at the circumferential periphery, where paradoxically and similarly, it is made up of points. These proximate points can be established by applying a lead point on the line, with an absolute of a virtual point.

The conceptual virtual, has to be requisite to the idea of a perfect circle.

We did a lot with this in prior posts, in relation to the idea of.the absolute conception as a necessary description to finding the d(x).

I don't want to dvelve here, only inasmuch as it also is an applicant to the idea of the ego becoming part of the circumference , as it decides more.subtly into more and more subtypes, in the process of evolving into absolute unitary all self inclusiveness.

As the finite number of near identical types becomes near undifferentiable, undiacernible, an appearance of a perfect circle gives rise to perfection as a.s substrate. Levin, the psychologist worked with this idea, albeit without success in trying to forge a mathematical surface definition of personally.
However the impasse between the geometry, the mathematics, the semantic positivism underlying assumptions (Wittgenstein), draw a picture of conceptual likeness to crisis modes near the curvature of the cixumferemce.

Again, this is a beginning , not any end to this process, and Cantor's difficulty with aligning the necessary conceptual tools at the infinitely reducible virtual absolute, with the actual limitationally drawn one, where
the limitations of.representing a stretching out of spatially stretched out continuum with time(the passing from one half of the isolated segment to the next halving) , becomes the feature of this process.

It is held that geometry has this conceptual difference at this point, similarly, as the conceptive approach into the ideas associated with black holes on macro and micro levels.

If, such is concerned, then if the cognition is basically a descriptive origin, then, at the point of a virtual crisis, it can at some point, divide into virtual certainty and.probable uncertainty. But at the point, where the derivation reached a point of disimtegrativr umertainty .

This but basic theory assumed to work on the most fundamental level

Now what could be envisioned as unique, at the very center of the circle, the virtual vertices of all integrated triangles, is the ideal or.absolute surface sum of all the triangles, and.rotated on an axis, to total and absolute.volume of an ideal sphere, the necessity again a demonstration of hyper.space as it dissolves.into virtual reality at the cemter.

Given the number of.types of.humans, at.the very periphery of.conscious limitless idea formation, in situ, is but a formative need to transcend the limit, of.acquired types of.defining characteristic ideation markers.within given psyches.

Here.is.where it gets interesting.

In humam development . a.process of differentiation then boumsedness of reified content, defines the ego, with the personalitu being the upper surface limit. With the opposite process, the contrary occurs, and a more.and more general typically define multiple conjuntions of types,
Where at some point the curve reaches beyond capacity of describing the integrative aspects of the process.

This point is so stretched, with the points becoming similar.to cosmic differences between objects formerly apprehended.as galaxies appearing as single stars, at a great distance, whereas on the micro scale, such observations can be created by more powerful electro microscopes.

What this implies is that.flows of.energy, through relative spatial temporal relations between observable points, may validate the intuitive origin of geometric point line relations6, where all lines are.constructions of near infinite points.

The accumulated personality -ego states, is compared.to a.Gestapo, of which boundary consideration have not yet reified, and in late life, an equally transferred.energy system will work to break down the particular.to the most.general configuration, in order to break down the ego into the simplest apprehension.
The psychological breakdown , literraly apprehends such a process, and it is a mode of.breaking this apprehension from it's conception, giving rise of reversing the different topological orientation , which at some point will appear as paradoxical
and moebius strip like. At that point the boundaries will reveal an open and.closed reversal, where the identity of opposites becomes at least conceivable , where the actual , situational phenomenon can not be separated further, and the psyche at this point will become reflexive and in an eternal mode of cyclical return .
At this juncture the prevelance of what 'comscious manifestation' can only derive from am inner.-outer undifferentiated source of energy.
That.this type of energy comes from am absolute source , appears to be the only way an impossibility of a nothingness can be.conceived, since all which appears is the opposite, being in a relative spatial temporal virtual world. In this sense, uncertainty is only a virtual manifested link between being and existence, either of.which can be a nihilized version of the other.
The pattern (geometric) presentation has reoccured in conceivably near infinite times , giving rise to conscious awareness through pattern and symbolic representation.

This occurred in yet another sleepless.night.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:34 pm

Meno_ wrote:Thanks for Your response and I would like to go on with it.

The idea oxcired occurred to me, that proof can be gathered other ways, using geometric patterns in the following manner.

The idea of energy transfer is indivisible within and without closed systems.
The conscious personality can be viewed as a combining of.triangular shapes , forming a circle, with a d(x) of ever shortening side, encompassed by
diminishing vertices enclosed by two isoscolese sides.

As the side which encompasses smaller and smaller of the circumference, that could be linked to the metaphore of humam types, subtypes as ego' s and personalities.

The subtypes will naturally be much more numerous, with increasing numbers as to more minute as the angles are traced to the vertices, with the point of the vertices form a virtual unity of ansolute identity with every point on the gross circumference.

This virtuality is both a hypothetical on- at the point of the vertices and at the circumferential periphery, where paradoxically and similarly, it is made up of points. These proximate points can be established by applying a lead point on the line, with an absolute of a virtual point.

The conceptual virtual, has to be requisite to the idea of a perfect circle.

We did a lot with this in prior posts, in relation to the idea of.the absolute conception as a necessary description to finding the d(x).

I don't want to dvelve here, only inasmuch as it also is an applicant to the idea of the ego becoming part of the circumference , as it decides more.subtly into more and more subtypes, in the process of evolving into absolute unitary all self inclusiveness.

As the finite number of near identical types becomes near undifferentiable, undiacernible, an appearance of a perfect circle gives rise to perfection as a.s substrate. Levin, the psychologist worked with this idea, albeit without success in trying to forge a mathematical surface definition of personally.
However the impasse between the geometry, the mathematics, the semantic positivism underlying assumptions (Wittgenstein), draw a picture of conceptual likeness to crisis modes near the curvature of the cixumferemce.

Again, this is a beginning , not any end to this process, and Cantor's difficulty with aligning the necessary conceptual tools at the infinitely reducible virtual absolute, with the actual limitationally drawn one, where
the limitations of.representing a stretching out of spatially stretched out continuum with time(the passing from one half of the isolated segment to the next halving) , becomes the feature of this process.

It is held that geometry has this conceptual difference at this point, similarly, as the conceptive approach into the ideas associated with black holes on macro and micro levels.

If, such is concerned, then if the cognition is basically a descriptive origin, then, at the point of a virtual crisis, it can at some point, divide into virtual certainty and.probable uncertainty. But at the point, where the derivation reached a point of disimtegrativr umertainty .

This but basic theory assumed to work on the most fundamental level

Now what could be envisioned as unique, at the very center of the circle, the virtual vertices of all integrated triangles, is the ideal or.absolute surface sum of all the triangles, and.rotated on an axis, to total and absolute.volume of an ideal sphere, the necessity again a demonstration of hyper.space as it dissolves.into virtual reality at the cemter.

Given the number of.types of.humans, at.the very periphery of.conscious limitless idea formation, in situ, is but a formative need to transcend the limit, of.acquired types of.defining characteristic ideation markers.within given psyches.

Here.is.where it gets interesting.

In humam development . a.process of differentiation then boumsedness of reified content, defines the ego, with the personalitu being the upper surface limit. With the opposite process, the contrary occurs, and a more.and more general typically define multiple conjuntions of types,
Where at some point the curve reaches beyond capacity of describing the integrative aspects of the process.

This point is so stretched, with the points becoming similar.to cosmic differences between objects formerly apprehended.as galaxies appearing as single stars, at a great distance, whereas on the micro scale, such observations can be created by more powerful electro microscopes.

What this implies is that.flows of.energy, through relative spatial temporal relations between observable points, may validate the intuitive origin of geometric point line relations6, where all lines are.constructions of near infinite points.

The accumulated personality -ego states, is compared.to a.Gestapo, of which boundary consideration have not yet reified, and in late life, an equally transferred.energy system will work to break down the particular.to the most.general configuration, in order to break down the ego into the simplest apprehension.
The psychological breakdown , literraly apprehends such a process, and it is a mode of.breaking this apprehension from it's conception, giving rise of reversing the different topological orientation , which at some point will appear as paradoxical
and moebius strip like. At that point the boundaries will reveal an open and.closed reversal, where the identity of opposites becomes at least conceivable , where the actual , situational phenomenon can not be separated further, and the psyche at this point will become reflexive and in an eternal mode of cyclical return .
At this juncture the prevelance of what 'comscious manifestation' can only derive from am inner.-outer undifferentiated source of energy.
That.this type of energy comes from am absolute source , appears to be the only way an impossibility of a nothingness can be.conceived, since all which appears is the opposite, being in a relative spatial temporal virtual world. In this sense, uncertainty is only a virtual manifested link between being and existence, either of.which can be a nihilized version of the other.
The pattern (geometric) presentation has reoccured in conceivably near infinite times , giving rise to conscious awareness through pattern and symbolic representation.

This occurred in yet another sleepless.night.




To be edited
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:51 pm

Post thesis source:


Compatibility of Contemporary Physical Theory with
Personality Survival.
Henry P. Stapp
Theoretical Physics Group
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
University of California
Berkeley, California 94705

Abstract
Orthodox quantum mechanics is technically built around
an element that von Neumann called Process 1. In its basic
form it consists of an action that reduces the prior state of
a physical system to a sum of two parts, which can be
regarded as the parts corresponding to the answers ‘Yes’
and ‘No’ to a specific question that this action poses, or
‘puts to nature’. Nature returns one answer or the other, in
accordance with statistical weightings specified by the
theory. Thus the standard statistical element in quantum
theory enters only after the Process-1 choice is made, while
the known deterministic element in quantum theory governs
the dynamics that prevails between the reduction events,
but not the process that determines which of the continuum
of allowed Process-1 probing actions will actually occur.
The rules governing that selection process are not fixed by
the theory in its present form. This freedom can be used to
resolve in a natural way an apparent problem of the
orthodox theory, its biocentrism. That resolution produces
a rationally coherent realization of the theory that
preserves the basic orthodox structure but allows naturally
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:19 am

There are indications that Buddhism and Physics intersect psychologically at times, as a synchronous (Jung) transcendance.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:21 am

Meno_ wrote:There are indications that Buddhism and Physics intersect psychologically at times, as a synchronous (Jung) transcendance,
perhaps.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Artimas » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:52 am

Meno_ wrote:Thanks for Your response and I would like to go on with it.

The idea oxcired occurred to me, that proof can be gathered other ways, using geometric patterns in the following manner.

The idea of energy transfer is indivisible within and without closed systems.
The conscious personality can be viewed as a combining of.triangular shapes , forming a circle, with a d(x) of ever shortening side, encompassed by
diminishing vertices enclosed by two isoscolese sides.

As the side which encompasses smaller and smaller of the circumference, that could be linked to the metaphore of humam types, subtypes as ego' s and personalities.

The subtypes will naturally be much more numerous, with increasing numbers as to more minute as the angles are traced to the vertices, with the point of the vertices form a virtual unity of ansolute identity with every point on the gross circumference.

This virtuality is both a hypothetical on- at the point of the vertices and at the circumferential periphery, where paradoxically and similarly, it is made up of points. These proximate points can be established by applying a lead point on the line, with an absolute of a virtual point.

The conceptual virtual, has to be requisite to the idea of a perfect circle.

We did a lot with this in prior posts, in relation to the idea of.the absolute conception as a necessary description to finding the d(x).

I don't want to dvelve here, only inasmuch as it also is an applicant to the idea of the ego becoming part of the circumference , as it decides more.subtly into more and more subtypes, in the process of evolving into absolute unitary all self inclusiveness.

As the finite number of near identical types becomes near undifferentiable, undiacernible, an appearance of a perfect circle gives rise to perfection as a.s substrate. Levin, the psychologist worked with this idea, albeit without success in trying to forge a mathematical surface definition of personally.
However the impasse between the geometry, the mathematics, the semantic positivism underlying assumptions (Wittgenstein), draw a picture of conceptual likeness to crisis modes near the curvature of the cixumferemce.

Again, this is a beginning , not any end to this process, and Cantor's difficulty with aligning the necessary conceptual tools at the infinitely reducible virtual absolute, with the actual limitationally drawn one, where
the limitations of.representing a stretching out of spatially stretched out continuum with time(the passing from one half of the isolated segment to the next halving) , becomes the feature of this process.

It is held that geometry has this conceptual difference at this point, similarly, as the conceptive approach into the ideas associated with black holes on macro and micro levels.

If, such is concerned, then if the cognition is basically a descriptive origin, then, at the point of a virtual crisis, it can at some point, divide into virtual certainty and.probable uncertainty. But at the point, where the derivation reached a point of disimtegrativr umertainty .

This but basic theory assumed to work on the most fundamental level

Now what could be envisioned as unique, at the very center of the circle, the virtual vertices of all integrated triangles, is the ideal or.absolute surface sum of all the triangles, and.rotated on an axis, to total and absolute.volume of an ideal sphere, the necessity again a demonstration of hyper.space as it dissolves.into virtual reality at the cemter.

Given the number of.types of.humans, at.the very periphery of.conscious limitless idea formation, in situ, is but a formative need to transcend the limit, of.acquired types of.defining characteristic ideation markers.within given psyches.

Here.is.where it gets interesting.

In humam development . a.process of differentiation then boumsedness of reified content, defines the ego, with the personalitu being the upper surface limit. With the opposite process, the contrary occurs, and a more.and more general typically define multiple conjuntions of types,
Where at some point the curve reaches beyond capacity of describing the integrative aspects of the process.

This point is so stretched, with the points becoming similar.to cosmic differences between objects formerly apprehended.as galaxies appearing as single stars, at a great distance, whereas on the micro scale, such observations can be created by more powerful electro microscopes.

What this implies is that.flows of.energy, through relative spatial temporal relations between observable points, may validate the intuitive origin of geometric point line relations6, where all lines are.constructions of near infinite points.

The accumulated personality -ego states, is compared.to a.Gestapo, of which boundary consideration have not yet reified, and in late life, an equally transferred.energy system will work to break down the particular.to the most.general configuration, in order to break down the ego into the simplest apprehension.
The psychological breakdown , literraly apprehends such a process, and it is a mode of.breaking this apprehension from it's conception, giving rise of reversing the different topological orientation , which at some point will appear as paradoxical
and moebius strip like. At that point the boundaries will reveal an open and.closed reversal, where the identity of opposites becomes at least conceivable , where the actual , situational phenomenon can not be separated further, and the psyche at this point will become reflexive and in an eternal mode of cyclical return .
At this juncture the prevelance of what 'comscious manifestation' can only derive from am inner.-outer undifferentiated source of energy.
That.this type of energy comes from am absolute source , appears to be the only way an impossibility of a nothingness can be.conceived, since all which appears is the opposite, being in a relative spatial temporal virtual world. In this sense, uncertainty is only a virtual manifested link between being and existence, either of.which can be a nihilized version of the other.
The pattern (geometric) presentation has reoccured in conceivably near infinite times , giving rise to conscious awareness through pattern and symbolic representation.

This occurred in yet another sleepless.night.


We have been on an unconscious/subconscious cycle for a very long time, very, very long, an inconceivable length of time to us for now I’d say.. symbolism is the only way it may communicate with us and the only method of perception and understanding, can’t describe blue to anyone without symbolism/imagery.

It is an undifferentiated source of energy, it’s like a string that branches out like tree roots from a single point, every branch out, we may trace the string all the way back and find what we may be embedded with, in terms of experience and knowledge. I don’t believe we have to be conscious or understanding creatures to have knowledge or experience, in other words, we wouldn’t have evolved to be conscious without the experience/knowledge first. So this shows the separation between the two states of consciousness and if this is true and shown then that means we have an infinity of embedded information into our being of which we only need to tap into our own self to access it, it’s imagery and symbolic availability to be interpreted and understood through our ever evolving conscious state, a state of which we may take eternal and infinite amounts of knowledge and interact and use such through the form of understandings, which only continue the cycle of reactions that grants more vision and knowledge of more possibilities to be understood, mainly through a-priori now.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:03 am

This is exactly the point of philosopher. Polanyi, who calls it 'tacit l knowledge'.

It is astounding to hear the echoes of Mr
Michael Polanyi, with whom I had an auditory dream around 5 years ago, and believe me, prior to that dream , I. never heard of him.
Some ILP members may recall me talking about this incident. I will look for it in archives.to prove it to You.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Artimas » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:52 pm

I have never heard of him until now from you as well.
Will edit this on break or lunch.

I am not sure if his idea is the same as mine or if he intended it to be what I am trying to say. I feel all the knowledge and instinctive experiencing all the way back to the Big Bang is embedded in things up until this point now and will continue to be such. It’s a priori to us now.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


Image Image
User avatar
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:54 pm

Artimas wrote:I have never heard of him until now from you as well.
Will edit this on break or lunch.

I am not sure if his idea is the same as mine or if he intended it to be what I am trying to say. I feel all the knowledge and instinctive experiencing all the way back to the Big Bang is embedded in things up until this point now and will continue to be such. It’s a priori to us now.




Nowedays identical narratives are never contemplated, let's say , extremely alike.

But now I am on an non prodactive break where writer's block treats it as non preferential next to the things need.to be done

I feel we have so much to talk about, and so much delineation is work to be cut out, and examined individually.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:58 pm

Meno_ wrote:
Artimas wrote:I have never heard of him until now from you as well.
Will edit this on break or lunch.

I am not sure if his idea is the same as mine or if he intended it to be what I am trying to say. I feel all the knowledge and instinctive experiencing all the way back to the Big Bang is embedded in things up until this point now and will continue to be such. It’s a priori to us now.




Nowedays identical narratives are never contemplated, let's say , extremely alike.(or establish identity per platform)

But now I am on an non prodactive break where writer's block treats it as non preferential next to the things need.to be done

I feel we have so much to talk about, and so much delineation is work to be cut out, and examined individually.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Artimas » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:14 pm

Meno_ wrote:
Artimas wrote:I have never heard of him until now from you as well.
Will edit this on break or lunch.

I am not sure if his idea is the same as mine or if he intended it to be what I am trying to say. I feel all the knowledge and instinctive experiencing all the way back to the Big Bang is embedded in things up until this point now and will continue to be such. It’s a priori to us now.




Nowedays identical narratives are never contemplated, let's say , extremely alike.

But now I am on an non prodactive break where writer's block treats it as non preferential next to the things need.to be done

I feel we have so much to talk about, and so much delineation is work to be cut out, and examined individually.


Yeah, I see that too. Nothing is ever identical, even if the message is the same.

From what I read on his tacit knowledge, the way he introduced such was more of a present moment or focusing on his ‘now’ which is inclusive of humanity.

I am trying to demonstrate how it is also exclusive of humanity or our conscious existence. I agree with his idea of tacit knowledge surely, I am just trying to paint the entire picture and I cannot do such on my own.

That’s the main differentiation between mine and his point or focus. But I couldn’t be where I am without him and many others, so I appreciate his work and him as a separated individual that is me as well. Thank you for showing me that, it helps me strengthen my positioning by giving me more semantics/words and imagery.

I view his idea of tacit knowledge external to humanity as well.

Here is a demonstration/image of his tacit knowledge, I will create an example for my own view based off of his tacit knowledge, without my knowing such. I hope that makes sense when I say how I view it as external to humanity or our existing/consciousness.
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Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:49 pm

Yes briefly, for I'm in transit doing my chores, the extrinsic element in tacit knowledge implies an contraidication in terms of exclusion.

However the tacticity, of considered in purely mechanistic-logical determinants, fails the transposition of it's meaning as internally determined.9

In fact a transcendentality requires an unidentifiable center, once an exclusion (the inner logical matrix) becomes the point of view from which objectivity - necessarily - emerges.

As a consequence , a trans(a)scendancy becomes the modal requirement.

If it does, the difference becomes based on Leibnitz' problem with indistinction , due to non apprehension of differentiated variables.

Simply, it will be beyond quantifiability
So tacit knowledge must be a transendental objective, incorporating both intrinsic and extrinsic factors.

Freedom and determinism have to be qualified . What comes to mind at this juncture is responsibility. Towars what, is the bigger question, and it can be treated as an X, for the time being.

Now , if , cybernetic intelligence is a natural extension of humanity, then as a center, it may derive an exterior causation , not included. But I doubt that such difference mattered in a literal sense. What do You think? And mind You, I mentioned Polanyi an-passant relating to my very strange dream. I'm still digging the archives for it.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Artimas » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:09 am

Meno_ wrote:Yes briefly, for I'm in transit doing my chores, the extrinsic element in tacit knowledge implies an contraidication in terms of exclusion.

However the tacticity, of considered in purely mechanistic-logical determinants, fails the transposition of it's meaning as internally determined.9

In fact a transcendentality requires an unidentifiable center, once an exclusion (the inner logical matrix) becomes the point of view from which objectivity - necessarily - emerges.

As a consequence , a trans(a)scendancy becomes the modal requirement.

If it does, the difference becomes based on Leibnitz' problem with indistinction , due to non apprehension of differentiated variables.

Simply, it will be beyond quantifiability
So tacit knowledge must be a transendental objective, incorporating both intrinsic and extrinsic factors.

Freedom and determinism have to be qualified . What comes to mind at this juncture is responsibility. Towars what, is the bigger question, and it can be treated as an X, for the time being.

Now , if , cybernetic intelligence is a natural extension of humanity, then as a center, it may derive an exterior causation , not included. But I doubt that such difference mattered in a literal sense. What do You think? And mind You, I mentioned Polanyi an-passant relating to my very strange dream. I'm still digging the archives for it.



I agree that it does seem or is contradictory, it is like an infinite of layer after lay of contrasts, complexity became overwhelming and the unconscious became the subconscious due to the complexity of vast experiencing, multiple layers of instinctual embedded knowledge/experience came to be through animals and life, which became even more intricate and complex which developed another contrast, consciousness, which grants us the ability to do what the universe has done, we have no limitations except ones own mind of which I am certain, we may develop another contrast and become even further evolved in terms of psyche and manifestation capabilities.



Do you mean the surfacing of this embedded information(freewill/thought) carried through infinity to the conscious state to be understood? (of which execution of this knowledge and understanding it is deterministic)


It seems to appear as the choice to evolve or repeat/die. In logic, that is what it proposes to the mind and if one chooses to evolve through trust in self and by following the requirements of humility and just morale, it reveals all and the will becomes free due to the understanding of the infinity of possibilities and how to execute them externally into reality.

It is as if a kernel of corn pops and the inside becomes the out, due to intense pressure/reaction, this is what we are, we are similar to popcorn of the universe. Weird analogy though, but I feel like we are the inside out of it and this is why we may manifest and expand it as well but through internal first instead of external first like how it started and compacted into us.


What do you mean by in-distinction? Do you mean the issue of not being able to grasp all of the unconscious at once and weed through what is viable and not? It would be overwhelming and less of a lesson and more of a tyrannical type of system, without choice or willful seeking.

I agree there has to be both free will and determinism to understand, it is a lesson, a test, the worthy face fear and they understand. It’s the test of trial and error, applicable to our mind now that we have consciousness developed.

Well, we are expanding it, the responsibility is to expand it, to bring more of what is just and orderly, it evolved out of millions of years of agony and chaos which to us would seem incomprehensible amount of pain or chaos, so now we are to bring order and manifest the imagination externally, for it is beauty to it. To keep the balance of contrasts.

That is a possible thought, an A.I would appear externally and outside in again, if so it may not look good for humanity. It could possibly overwhelm such a creature, an eternity of chaos developing all at once.

It may also be possible that they spawn ignorantly and make the wrong decisions, which may also look terrible for humanity.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:24 pm

Indistinction is the effect of identity of indiscernables , distinctive features can be hidden between many levels, as You imply, of convoluted epochs of reality. The idea that even in hiddenness, in a submergence from one form of reality to it's unconscious manifestation, toward the sub-conscious, the levels at some points can exercise apparent continuity, but not within absolute cohesion, or overlap.

The idea of an absolute therefore is not demonstrable because the elements or epochs forming absolute identity will become indistinct, by virtue of non differentiability.



The god then, in any definable form , can not be perceived even in dreams.
That "iT" underlies ALL consciousness, is then indubidable.
There is no doubt in my mind , that an absolute has to inversely impend the progression.

The hiddenness as invisibility masks as a nothingness, which is full.
No proof possible , but the zero sum of all approximations does in fact approach 1.

That to Cantor this also presented to a total block, need not serve as a deterrent.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Artimas » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:01 pm

Meno_ wrote:Indistinction is the effect of identity of indiscernables , distinctive features can be hidden between many levels, as You imply, of convoluted epochs of reality. The idea that even in hiddenness, in a submergence from one form of reality to it's unconscious manifestation, toward the sub-conscious, the levels at some points can exercise apparent continuity, but not within absolute cohesion, or overlap.

The idea of an absolute therefore is not demonstrable because the elements or epochs forming absolute identity will become indistinct, by virtue of non differentiability.



The god then, in any definable form , can not be perceived even in dreams.
That "iT" underlies ALL consciousness, is then indubidable.
There is no doubt in my mind , that an absolute has to inversely impend the progression.

The hiddenness as invisibility masks as a nothingness, which is full.
No proof possible , but the zero sum of all approximations does in fact approach 1.

That to Cantor this also presented to a total block, need not serve as a deterrent.


That’s what I thought you may have meant but I wasn’t sure, it is too much for our consciousness to handle all at once, it’s indiscernible to consciousness because consciously we lack the experience to attach an understanding, so it is experience we have been embedded with and is integral to our being and of course from it leading up to our being but we were not conscious of such experiencing and so we may not use its power until we rediscover or experience such consciously and that is what science and philosophy focuses on. The god of many faces, there is a point of which this external force may appear as anything due to there being a point of reaction, in everything, so it uses such point to communicate to us when we accept such with following the rules or system of understanding. It is the example or analogy of “Anyone can know but the point is to understand”, not all can understand infinity yet because not all have experienced it consciously. No one has, I have only seen a mere glimpse of which to me seemed like infinity, to it, it could be a fraction. Like how a day or days for a fly are it’s life, but days to us.


Agree, we cannot place a face on what has no face of which is both nothing and everything possible. That is where the misunderstandings, fighting, war occur, from the misconception of this imagery and then the ego running rampant with this knowledge without understanding it, completely counterproductive.

It will appear as a one thing only if one is humble to whatever it appears as, for the sake of teaching or acceptance of knowledge, otherwise it doesn’t appear but instead gives you a slight glimpse behind the curtain of an infinity/nothingness, which is too much to dissect while confined to a present moment of consciousness without having the conscious experience of it all previous, can’t fully trap or confine the past and the future in the present, with the hopes of not missing some details and understandings, we life are the past and future confined to a present moment and most don’t even understand themselves or what this entails, so the proof is observable in regards to that statement of confinement in the present. We all have details of ourselves we don’t know, even if simple and slight, like the rings on our hands and our fingerprints and how many there are, slight details we do not know some answers to or take the time to know due to value attribution from the ego and this confinement of the present and the overwhelming of consciousness of infinity in regards to it, so one usually picks the illusory or the attempt at confinement over the infinity.

It only appears as illusions, fragments of itself, we create its appearance by our attachment of our individual value attribution from ego to imagery/idea. Definitely not in an absolute form of it’s whole being, we lack the conscious experience to glimpse and understand such, fully.


I agree, it’s just a one thing with many, many branches or points in time, to use as it’s imagery. The reactions or points are the doors of it, to use based on our own consciousness. So the one face to us of which appears absolute is only a fragment, a single point it appears as out of the infinity of points/reactions. It’s like in game of thrones, the no face or many face god of death. A one thing but has many, many faces, similar to that idea but much beyond being solely human faces.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:40 am

"A one thing but has many, many faces, similar to that idea but much beyond being solely human faces."
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:03 am

Artimas wrote:[quote="artimas]"A one thing but has many, many faces, similar to that idea but much beyond being solely human faces."[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]
[/


Between the tragedy of many gods wearing masks presenting their perceived roles, and that of acting them out, elapsed some two thousand years of learning to go from presenting to representing knowledge through understanding.

And what have we learned? That we forget how to see the original.

The middle ages' insividually guild produced unique semblance to none, can not have reproduced gods as well, for the means of production changed its forgot the embeddedness of the manifold representation of the many taken singularly, devolved into the single creator the producer of the unique as a perfect representation .
God became the embedded producer of forgotten production.

He could not but project the loss of individuality, into a retro projection unto the hiddenness of the god.

Innate intelligence dictated and pre formed even Einstein , that no thing =(nothing) is ever lost.


That was the birth of tragedy, the negation of the law of contradiction.
That they shall see the battle cry , of Nausea, the inauthentic actor, leading masses of innocent sheep to the slaughter of the inauthentic.

And it is for this, that it is worth , to regain out of this conflict, the only available method: of renewal of the lost, recycled,as now reaffirmed, as methods of skillful recovery of a Paradise.lost.

The only possible way personally, is to dispense and throw away that what is not truthful, and methodically attached , and coveted , put it to rest, so as to make actions as reflective to godly love as much as possible.

The tragedy of this godless reduction can and mist be turned around by the reappearance and adoption . the acceptance of the manyfaced godman, whereby the birth of tragedy to a singularity may be shown to be as quixotic as it was intended to be.

To achieve this, all will be forgiven and the singular hidden. This journey, may delibitate if not realized to be a state of being, rather then a simulated singularity.(man)
If correctly practiced and realized , it becomes a soul train for wearied travelers.

The key is tob accept the manifold overlays of reality as given .
Last edited by Meno_ on Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Artimas » Wed May 01, 2019 2:01 am

Meno_ wrote:
Artimas wrote:[quote="artimas]"A one thing but has many, many faces, similar to that idea but much beyond being solely human faces."[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/


Between the tragedy of many gods wearing masks presenting their perceived roles, and that of acting them out, elapsed some two thousand years of learning to go from presenting to representing knowledge through understanding.

And what have we learned? That we forget how to see the original.

The middle ages' insividually guild produced unique semblance to none, can not have reproduced gods as well, for the means of production changed its forgot the embeddedness of the manifold representation of the many taken singularly, devolved into the single creator the producer of the unique as a perfect representation .
God became the embedded producer of forgotten production.

He could not but project the loss of individuality, into a retro projection unto the hiddenness of the god.

Innate intelligence dictated and pre formed even Einstein , that no thing =(nothing) is ever lost.


That was the birth of tragedy, the negation of the law of contradiction.
That they shall see the battle cry , of Nausea, the inauthentic actor, leading masses of innocent sheep to the slaughter of the inauthentic.

And it is for this, that it is worth , to regain out of this conflict, the only available method: of renewal of the lost, recycled,as now reaffirmed, as methods of skillful recovery of a Paradise.lost.

The only possible way personally, is to dispense and throw away that what is not truthful, and methodically attached , and coveted , put it to rest, so as to make actions as reflective to godly love as much as possible.

The tragedy of this godless reduction can and mist be turned around by the reappearance and adoption . the acceptance of the manyfaced godman, whereby the birth of tragedy to a singularity may be shown to be as quixotic as it was intended to be.

To achieve this, all will be forgiven and the singular hidden. This journey, may delibitate if not realized to be a state of being, rather then a simulated singularity.(man)
If correctly practiced and realized , it becomes a soul train for wearied travelers.

The key is tob accept the manifold overlays of reality as given .[/quote]


Indeed, i agree, it is the key to accept it for what it is and appreciate being alive and pondering. I appreciate the overlapping continuity of ever evolving contrasts.

It does seem quixotic but my realization is that there are no impossibilities, merely positions of lesser understanding of which shrouds a possibility and creates the illusion of it being impossible due to value attribution of which I explained and gave an example of in my thread “impossibility of a possibility, why?”

A possibility may be exaggerated but it does not make it impossible, mainly just unrefined. Man I love discussing with you Meno, not many people can see past the traps they stick themselves in. I just only want to help them out but they never wish to listen or help themselves, they need just grab my hand..

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Thu May 02, 2019 7:07 pm

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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Thu May 02, 2019 7:23 pm

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Re: Satori or below

Postby Meno_ » Thu May 02, 2019 7:42 pm

https://youtu.be/6g5ZF6DUrHI


Perfect antidote against the capital of alienation: nostalgia of primal (subconscious membership)
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Re: Satori or below

Postby Artimas » Thu May 02, 2019 9:11 pm

Meno_ wrote:https://youtu.be/6g5ZF6DUrHI


Perfect antidote against the capital of alienation: nostalgia of primal (subconscious membership)


Agree, music and art is everything to me. It is the best antidote, timeless expression to match my timeless awareness.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


Image Image
User avatar
Artimas
Emancipator of ignorance and also Chameleon upon the stars
 
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:47 pm
Location: Earth, Milky Way


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