Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Gloominary » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:30 am

Serendipper wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I mean at least the Hindus were able to explain what their pantheism meant.
They said the universe is God (the supreme being), in that everyone and everything is part of God's dream (or nightmare), or infinite, immortal God is simultaneously, (sub)consciously roleplaying finite, mortal you, me, that rock over there, everyone and everything in the universe/his dream/nightmare.
But these neopantheists don't explain in what sense the universe is the, or is like a supreme being, in fact they say there is no supreme being, but yet they insist they believe in God and the universe is it, it's preposterous.

What's preposterous is that a bunch of dumb junk magically turned itself into people. Hydrogen - A colorless, odorless gas that, given enough time, turns into people.

What's preposterous is that a magical sky fairy created something from nothing in order to stand outside it and somehow not be a part of it.

Pantheism is the only sensible solution.

Actually I prefer the term panvitalism. The "theism" part makes it seem like an object of worship or a god that is separate from everything else. There is no theism, but only vitalism. No god; just life.

There is nothing that is not god and there is nothing that is not you.

The maximum number of things in any universe can only be 1.

If there are two things, then they must be distinct things and distinct things are mutually exclusive and if they are excluded from each other, then they don't exist to each other and inhabit individual universes which brings us back to the maximum number of things in any universe is 1.

God cannot create anything unless it be a part of him. Therefore all things are god. Unless you view yourself as a pile of junk, in which case the universe is just dumb junk.

So is consciousness a complicated form of mineral or is mineral a simple form of consciousness? The answer to that depends if you want to insult yourself or not. If mineral is just junk, then so are you.

Well the cosmos is one in that everything we experience affects everything else, directly or indirectly, and everything is alive, aware and intelligent in that everything is in part spontaneous (at least on the subatomic level), responsive and organizes itself in very sophisticated ways.

Still some things within the cosmos are more alive, aware, intelligent and unified than others.
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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Serendipper » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:05 am

Gloominary wrote:Still some things within the cosmos are more alive, aware, intelligent and unified than others.

Right, consciousness doesn't come from nothing upon assembling the right amount of complexity, but there is a continuous spectrum of degrees of consciousness with no zero being found.
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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:07 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:

Greatest
wrote:
It may not matter given the, what, 3 other sets of big 10 that are in the bible and likely a rendition from the Book of the Dead.

A Shieldmaiden
wrote:
Not quite sure what you mean. Can you explain this in more detail?

Greatest wrote:

Simple. There are more than 2, I think 3, sets of commandments in scriptures. Since the originating myth of the Jewish holy books is known to be from Sumer and Egypt, it follows that the ten commandments are a rendering of the commandments in The Book of the dead. None are the same and the O.T. Jewish set is a real ball breaker. No I no longer have a link to it so you will have to confirm these facts for yourself.


I had only read the Tibetan Book of the Dead. There is much discussion in my house regarding comments on this subject here on the Forum and it has taught me not to become complacent.

There are two laws.

The Law of Ten Commandments, and

The Ceremonial Law.

On Mount Sinai, Moses received both the law of God and a precise set of instructions for the sacrificial system and these were to form the basis of the religious ceremonies of the Israelites.

1. God wrote the Ten Commandments

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God (Exodus 31:18).

The two tables of stone were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.


2. Moses wrote the ceremonial law, or book of the law

This law of types and ceremonies was written by Moses in the book of the law

And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee (Deuteronomy 31:24-26)

and this was placed beside the Ark.

These two sets of laws, the one moral and the other ceremonial, were entirely different and served different purposes.

"The whole trend of the Book of the Dead is thaumaturgic, as its purpose is to guard the dead against the dangers they have to face in reaching the other world. As in most mythologies, the dead Egyptian had to encounter malignant spirits and was threatened by many dangers before reaching his haven of rest".
Enclyopedia.com

That is paganism.


All religions have pagan roots.

Moses was a myth and literalists are never right as they believe on faith and not on facts. Literalism is for those who do not want to know the truth.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

Do you wish to talk truth or the lies you get when reading a myth literally?

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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:11 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I'll say it again, for Christians, Jews and Muslims, God is a supernatural being, and he created the cosmos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmD9ZWDUsNY

If the supernatural were real, then you would have to see a matrix or Mandelbrot set universe and that puts God over God over God, --- endlessly. That is a Gnostic Christian theme. An argument really against the supernatural. It followed the ancient intelligentsia just as it does today.

Care to tell us what revelation turned God from an abstract for you and into a reality? When did you have your vision and apotheosis?

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DL

I'm an agnostic.

I'm participating in this thread to talk about what I think the bible teaches, not what I think about what I think the bible teaches.

Just because belief in the supernatural might be irrational, doesn't mean the bible isn't a book about the supernatural, it is.


I agree that the bible is depicting the supernatural and is therefore irrational.

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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:17 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:By the reckoning of the above story, god and Jesus are just claiming to be any other being that exists, no better or worse, no more powerful or less powerful and no more right than wrong.

Jesus is the right hand of god and the devil is the left. Satan is the district attorney and Jesus is the defense.



So you see both Jesus and Satan doing God's work. Interesting.

That is more of a Jewish take than a Christian one. Are you agreeing that Eden was where man was elevated and not where he fell?

Are you agreeing with this link?

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/ ... -theodicy/

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DL
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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:53 am

Greatest I am wrote:I agree that the bible is depicting the supernatural and is therefore irrational.

Regards
DL
Then there is a problem with using quotes from that Bible to demonstate what Jesus really thought.
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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:38 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:I agree that the bible is depicting the supernatural and is therefore irrational.

Regards
DL
Then there is a problem with using quotes from that Bible to demonstate what Jesus really thought.


Indeed, but I am using the quotes that are basically inter faith as the meditation it promotes is found in most religions.

Anything can be used as a mantra and Gnostic Christians traditionally use the Jesus Chrestian good man archetype.

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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:17 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Indeed, but I am using the quotes that are basically inter faith as the meditation it promotes is found in most religions.

Anything can be used as a mantra and Gnostic Christians traditionally use the Jesus Chrestian good man archetype.
That's fine in terms of your use of the Bible. IOW you believe parts are true and others are not and you know which parts to listen to and which not, given your belief system. But you are turning to Christians who are not Gnostics, with the title of your thread 'Have you learned what Jesus and your Bible teaches?' and using as evidence certain quotes that you interpret out of your belief system. See, Christian, this is what your Bible says, there is no supernatural stuff. But the Bible very clearly intends people to believe in supernatural stuff, including about Jesus and that Jesus believed in supernatural stuff himself.

Now those who wrote the Bible may have presented a distorted image of Jesus and what he really believed, but the Bible as evidence is utterly undermined and it does not make sense as a demonstration to Christians. You can't use the Bible to show that Jesus did not believe in the supernatural. That's cherry picking. Further the cherry picked quotes themselves are rather open to a variety of interpretations.

It is just not the case, as you admitted above, that the Bible teaches there is nothing supernatural. Nor does the Jesus as presented in the Bible.

The quotes you quoted earlier can certain be used as discussion points on an interfaith level, but there's no demonstation of 'what the Bible is teaching.'

I don't really think the various meditations promoted in the various religions is the same. It certainly was not what I experienced and the language and specific practices are different, but that's another can of worms.
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Re: Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:32 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: You can't use the Bible to show that Jesus did not believe in the supernatural. That's cherry picking. Further the cherry picked quotes themselves are rather open to a variety of interpretations.

It is just not the case, as you admitted above, that the Bible teaches there is nothing supernatural. Nor does the Jesus as presented in the Bible.

.


The whole bible is a cherry picking from most of the religions of those days.

As esoteric ecumenists, we just follow that old tradition and given that Christians burned a hell of a lot of the older holy books, it has become a guide to what the ancient thinkers thought.

The bible is basically the only book, other than Gnostic writings, that speaks of Jesus.

No bible = no Jesus.

Do you want to chat about Jesus or not?

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