Communism 77

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Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:17 am

The enlightened worker commands the value of his own labor.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:54 am

Jakob wrote:The enlightened worker commands the value of his own labor.



K: what the fuck does this even mean? More random babbling?

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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:18 pm

fuck man thats such a shitty reply.

But reflecting I know I can't blame you for shitting where they will allow you to.

You are indeed downtrodden. But this is not coming from the outside, but from your misapprehension of the goal of your struggle.
Last edited by Jakob on Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:22 pm

This environment....
Christ.


Anyway.

Marx deciphered for the worker class that knowledge is power, and the knowledge that we are in stages of reversals of power attaining is that labor is magic, and priceless. Vast sums of wealth are being produced by the humblest labour, and the labourers do not partake in this wealth as much as the owners, and this is natural, as ownership is a very demanding kind of labour. Most that win great fortunes lose them quickly. But the difference between the price and the value of labor is too great. I dare say this is not the case because the owners are evil, but because the workers have in general not been enlightened. Because even though we all know our time is our life and that is priceless, it is only in moments of pure inspiration and creative unfolding that we see what our labour is really worth, namely that it is not just our time, but our whole being.



"The enlightened worker commands the value of his own labor"; the enlightened worker commands the value of his own being. His self-value comes under his control, and his actions will resonate with the logic of power, so that they will have the consequences one intends, because he values the things that are indeed valuable to him; that is enlightenment. Not to know that all values are relative in general, but to know that values are relative to ones own true nature. This knowledge pushes the worker to be precisely aware of what she is working at. And this in turn will bring about the enlightenment of the Proletariat. There is no Party to take control of the means of productions, there are only enlightened workers in control of their own labor, meaning; workers with a purpose.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:04 pm

Knowledge is power and power commands responsibility, which Ks class of slavish bourgeoisie considers an error.

So far be it from K to respect his fellow worker - rather, every chance he is offered to partake in societies discourse, he uses to shit on the proletariat and our battle for human self determination.

The involuntary clerk in his odious ignorance of Communism will be used as the example of the American fascism of poverty espoused by the slavish bourgeoisie in following discourse.

We have to understand even such a sinister man that would crumble upon the first glimpse of self knowledge, if we are to understand our own cause and what went wrong with it.

But the lesson is simple: Communism does not endure cowards and hypocrites in its ranks.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Meno_ » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:53 pm

Each according to his need and ability were the gloriois haranged throughout communist land with more and more emphatic pronouncements as the goals of every 5 year plan kept falling toward the public knowledge of the workers.

This was the real disillusionment with the prophetic enlightenment everybody was hoping for.
What tanked it? The non ideological basis of greed.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:42 pm

What tanked it as Ive understood it from within is the lack of spirit. There was something lacking in Communism, which manifested in absurdity and bleak indifference. Our home was always bustling with laughter at Soviet absurdities, as solidarity was strictly with the worker, not with Marx, Lenin or any other party head. This is Communism at heart; Solidarity. It is one of a few solutions to narcissism in a mass culture. But of course it was very flawed in the days before it fell, therefore it fell with Justice, and Reagan was necessary.

Greed is not a problem if there are enough resources for everyone. But the absence of spirit in the Soviet economy of drives made it lose out on the libidinal front. Gods are, after all, the unrepressed potency of a culture. The Soviets had to go into space to release their drives.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:47 pm

Communism is however a human enterprise so naturally endowed with gods, two of whom offer their instruments;

The sickle belongs to Saturn, the taskmaster, lord of harvest, discipline, death and time and the hammer to Thor, the strongest of the Aesir, who was known in Communist heartlands as the guardian of the common man. The prosaic meanings to the symbol naturally fall into the same realm as these gods, thats what symbols are for.

To show some more depth to the connection of the symbol to the spirit; Rus was a Viking tribe, and Communism is an originally Anglo-Germanic spirit. Hegels ultra dry universe, bereft of all libidinal flexibility, has so far blocked the Communist Gods from entering the proletarian mind, but they were present in the hearts at the outset; you can feel them in the deep tremors of The Mother. In the Christian environment a door opened, and it was not that uncanniest of guests of which Nietzsche speaks that came in.

The Christian gods may have been opiate for some masses, but these non-metaphysical gods fulfill no such purpose, do not lead to complacency and passivity. They are rather the companions to the human will to make something of the Earth, something of himself on this Earth, to engage the phenomenon of life without the puny fears that plague a cosmopolitan mind.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:51 pm

Sacrifice. That is what Saturn represents.
The dweller on the threshold.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Pandora » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:26 am

The sickle belongs to Saturn, the taskmaster, lord of harvest, discipline, death and time and the hammer to Thor, the strongest of the Aesir, who was known in Communist heartlands as the guardian of the common man. The prosaic meanings to the symbol naturally fall into the same realm as these gods, thats what symbols are for.

But communists did not believe in any pagan gods and would have objected to such associations. That would be like saying that Christians who put up a Christmas tree are really pagans at heart and just don’t know it.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:25 am

Pandora wrote:
The sickle belongs to Saturn, the taskmaster, lord of harvest, discipline, death and time and the hammer to Thor, the strongest of the Aesir, who was known in Communist heartlands as the guardian of the common man. The prosaic meanings to the symbol naturally fall into the same realm as these gods, thats what symbols are for.

But communists did not believe in any pagan gods and would have objected to such associations. That would be like saying that Christians who put up a Christmas tree are really pagans at heart and just don’t know it.

And yet, thats exactly the truth.
Christmas is a pagan feast. More ancient than Amen.

Not all of Christianity is pagan, but in the act of putting up the tree at the solstice they represent older, more elemental powers. And since it is such a happy part of Christianity, such innocence, the whole religion has become "tainted" with paganism. The tree is not the only form. Protestants understood this and rid the religion of as many symbols and feasts as it figured it could. With as a result that that depaganized branch of the religion withered away after a few centuries.

Every religion which works is pagan, taps into chtonic forces. In as far as they become analytical, they lose their power to compel.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:24 pm

A Communist is essentially someone who prefers to act, who is unable to not act, in the face of evil.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Meno_ » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:06 pm

Jakob wrote:What tanked it as Ive understood it from within is the lack of spirit. There was something lacking in Communism, which manifested in absurdity and bleak indifference. Our home was always bustling with laughter at Soviet absurdities, as solidarity was strictly with the worker, not with Marx, Lenin or any other party head. This is Communism at heart; Solidarity. It is one of a few solutions to narcissism in a mass culture. But of course it was very flawed in the days before it fell, therefore it fell with Justice, and Reagan was necessary.

Greed is not a problem if there are enough resources for everyone. But the absence of spirit in the Soviet economy of drives made it lose out on the libidinal front. Gods are, after all, the unrepressed potency of a culture. The Soviets had to go into space to release their drives.



Greed is greed , discourses or not. The structure of acquisition is such, as to exclude most everyone for a participation mystique, that is shown on an economic graph to be evenly distributed between production costs and profit taking. The books were cooked there as a result, hiding a true polynomial rate of increase, with increasingly uneven distribution favoring management , who were proto owners.

The alienated began to feel this without the knowledge of this inverse type of planned solidarity, which initially appeared fair. Its just like the lottery game, in the beginning of costs the administrators more then the money pulled in and that lasts a while until the buy ins get hooked on it. This is certain.

Solidarity can them change faces, and can loose planned objectives equality.

This is how the excluded get to have a solid but unknown reason for disilluaionment . The solidarity especially in Poland happened because primarily of the effects of US propaganda fed through Radio Free Europe, and organizers , although in the iron grips of communist honchos, messaging the what happens to people who try to throw odd the shackles, should remember the fate of the freedom fighters among Hungarian rebels in 1956.

Solidarity and social cohesion are based on economic expectations, but still other sources of propaganda are primarily responsible for any action

Regan's famous Star War antimissle system was one such counterfeit claim bought by the Soviets, and again thought up by a Hungarian , Edward Teller. It did work for a while, until fairly recently, bit look what state the world is in now: more dangerous then ever.

Perhaps for this incredible deficit, not merely in monetary terms , but spiritual conflicting goods, that Trumpism, another rhetorical powerhouse, could have gotten as far as it did.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:26 pm

By what definition of "good" can there be conflicting goods?
I think thats just wrong.

Conflicting interests surely. But who is to say the good isn't that which prevails, or that which loses?

Conflicting ideas of "good" maybe, but I doubt it. I doubt may people have ideas about "the good" or even "good" other than "this is good food".
A good deed however, never goes unpunished! We all know this.

Good is not just any old fucking opinion or desire.
Dont try that nihilistic slush on me my friend.

Goods never conflict. Like a good saxophone player never conflicts a good bassist.
War is always bad. A good war is a bad term.

Interests conflict. Good is above conflict. If the term has any meaning at all, which it does on my watch.

Which brings me back to the topic.

Communism 77 is subservient to the national tradition. It makes no claim to an internationalist dominion, rather, it refuses to engage in contracts with no verifiable securities for the peoples future ownership of their nations resources. The resources under Communism 77 belong to the people, but the people aren't defined any longer as International Bureaucracy but as national militia of decency. Communism is militarized decency. Socialism is the term that all decent Communist reserve for the indent claim of the worker to the throne - the idea that Communism should somehow replace parliamentary democracy is the greatest shitsmear in the universe. Communism offers literally no means at all to govern. It is strictly the business of leveraging he labourer with his own labour power through the power of numbers. This extends directly into the realm of politics, so it is very dangerous if the wrong idea about governance is held.

I am astounded at the ignorance of the early Communists who didn't even notice that there isn't any governance proposed by the principle of the workers sovereignty.
Why did so many of them think that it meant that democracy had to be disbanded?
But then there were many who worked within parliaments to secure the rights for the general population that the liberalization efforts were uprooting.
When the Soviet Union fell there was no more resistance to the dismantling of the welfare state. Which is not the nanny state, because Communists aren't moralists.
Socialism and moralism only came onto the stage when Liberalism had eroded the post war ethics of rewarding direct merit, and fancy ideas of ideology entered the stage as opiates for the masses.
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Re: Communism 777

Postby Meno_ » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:21 pm

You've brought up some good points for sure, and last night was rough on me taking a toll.For I fell asleep, forgetting even to log out. Therefore I will reply in kind, as soon as my wits can be recaptured.


The early president of Hungary in a , a Rakosi imre named communist, 777-who was, installed by the Soviets



This is difficult to express for fragile souls, ones like me who have been around ILP and deservedly involved myself , unassuming any trait that would tend to work against.me: but it is within the ideas generated on paper of such, that a thousand ships are launched.routinely.


Just some rambling thougjts before trying to give some substance to the realism which at times begets and invites unassumable hope , on accord to promises made. and underperformed or even not performed, that preference to be frank remains at times an unfulfilled need.

The brotherhood needs insight yes, but on both sides ,taking yrs, to generate the minimum trust to generate a truthful reason to enable it to take off.

I was in Hungary this summer. as You know, and the tourist guide pretended to push an artistic installment on the banks of the Danube on the program, consisting of bronzed shoes reminiscent of Auahwitz camps.

The fall of the iron curtain necessitated some symbolic olive branch to be thrown into the arms of returnees, who may have understood the value of conflicted goods, again bearing some similarity to the so called blood diamonds.
Please forgive the course dressing, Hungary being the only European country so far to pass a parliamentary resolution to bar immigrants from south under, building a real wall, similar to the iron curtain.Feverish Change of course over the democratic efforts of
George Soros, canceling his institutional name on various buildings dedicated to his Open Society Forum, exemplifies the quickly changing winds that sweep continental Europe nowadays.

I start with Hungary, but it is a good source for a comparable social experiment that attempting to gain. measures of universal acceptance here in the United States, and one of which I dare to express opinions.
This is an example of the very insecure foundation upon which security, both national and international, rests.

The Communist Internationale comes to mind here as a parting shot, and how terribly fragmented. it is becoming representative of various powers of nationalistic centers with Mao and the Soviets almost comimg to nuclear war? Or Tito, dancing to his own time?) a reminder of the harboring of major underlying remaining challenges of merely 50 some years ago.

On the whole I so agree with the analysis put forward by You, , with input from Iambig, relating to issues to be lowered from the perched ones, but in this day and age of non factual rhetoric, even if for some assumedly well meaning and quote determined cause, it speaks volumes to put all the so called issues of national security begin to be presented into their true light.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Jakob » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:00 am

As Marxism proceeded to divide up society in social classes, the Capital owners simply observed and took hold of this process and used it to divide and conquer what they didnt already have. The small minded social focus of the 20th century Marxism allowed the cold and calculating capitalist masters, to use the old terms which are simply apt, to make of Socialism a layer of moralistic and hypocritical and inefficient and expensive goo to insulate power from the people.

Communism was originally successful in launching the proletarian revolution, which attained them access to long coveted things such as education in mathematics and Greek and Latin.
However, the Socialists, in my country at least, tried to abolish these classical studies, until the Communists intervened. The Communists fight for rights, the Socialists fight for an abstract equality that means a reduction of all that is elevated to a common average.

I should call Socialism Commonism, versus Communism, the red dawn, the self-recognition of the salt of the Earth.

It took a Nietzschean approach resolve the problem of value in the sense of valuing, of being subjective, of having a life that is restricted by Capital; the concept of valuing oneself indirectly through the values one chooses. To accept that to work for a factory means to be subservient unto the core to the products and consequences of that factory; the selfishness of thinking it is all only about the labourer is what has put Communism at unstable footing so far - what really matters to the people in the long run is the Earth.

This is what is clearly implied in the original post, if one takes the time to think through what is not immediately explicit; that for the labourers value to be recognized in the greater scheme, for a happy and fruitful labouring condition to dominate on Earth, it is mandatory that all industries are grounded in sound Earthly principles. The worker, in his dictatorship, is ultimately responsible for that, as it is in high governance.

If the worker will inherit the Earth he must answer to the highest standards. And I simply declare that the highest value is the Earth and the solar system it is part of, and the Galaxy, etcetera. We must know our place for true materialist morality to occur.
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Re: Communism 777

Postby Meno_ » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:40 am

As it stands , one notable Congressman has commented on this very issue, expressing the opinion that Democracy may not survive under the harsh rubric of Capitalism, fairly recently.
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Re: Communism 77

Postby Serendipper » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:09 am

Jakob wrote:Marx deciphered for the worker class that knowledge is power, and the knowledge that we are in stages of reversals of power attaining is that labor is magic, and priceless. Vast sums of wealth are being produced by the humblest labour, and the labourers do not partake in this wealth as much as the owners, and this is natural, as ownership is a very demanding kind of labour. Most that win great fortunes lose them quickly. But the difference between the price and the value of labor is too great. I dare say this is not the case because the owners are evil, but because the workers have in general not been enlightened. Because even though we all know our time is our life and that is priceless, it is only in moments of pure inspiration and creative unfolding that we see what our labour is really worth, namely that it is not just our time, but our whole being.

:text-goodpost:

Democracy is the only way to avoid corruption, but the problem with democracy is mob rule, so the solution is education.

The problem with capitalism is it can only bring prosperity sufficient to prevent revolt of the people and incentive exists to keep the workers poor (and stupid) so they will be desperate for low wages which maximizes profits.

The problem with communism is lack of the drive due to greed and consequent stagnant growth, which I guess is only a problem if one wants growth because growth is only necessary in a profit-economy or economies where money is loaned into existence with an interest payment that perpetually requires issuance of new money to pay old interest.

The only way a capitalistic economy can avoid breakdown (revolt) is to maintain growth, which is why all the central banks obsess over inflation since inflation means demand for products and demand is indicative of a growing economy (inflating). All this just to make some people vastly more wealthy than others.
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