Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

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Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

Postby Guide » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:48 pm

It does seem, one who learns Socrates' bent will be utterly struck by its withering simplicity. Who would not be good at a thing, who had once got the knack of it? For instance, at swinging in golf, and striking the ball to the hole. What misery for the wretch without sound technique. Ergo, who can deny Socrates' holding, that is, that to not know is the only thing that makes us bad. What bliss to follow right learning, and to have learned what is teachable! Such is the holy zeal of wisdom.

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Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

Postby lordoflight » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:44 pm

Quality not quantity. Better to learn only a few things than learn a bunch of stuff you have no use for. Ie. American schools.
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Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

Postby Guide » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:39 pm

However, these are metaphors (above). Since Socrates had in mind learning how to live on the whole. Which is not a matter of quantity or quality.

Useless information, as you indicate, is another matter beside from the primary issue:

Is there any more benefit in knowing this than to know that the Aventine Hill is outside the pomerium, according to him, for one of two reasons: either because that was the rallying point for the plebeians in secession from Rome, or because the birds had not been propitious when Remus took the auspices there; and to know countless other items besides that are either crammed with lies or improbable? For even if you grant that people say all these things in good faith, and even if they guarantee the truthfulness of their writing, whose mistakes will such items of information make fewer? Whose passions will they hold in check? Whom will they make braver, or more just, or more generous of spirit? My friend Fabianus used to say that he sometimes wondered whether it was better to apply oneself to no researches at all than to be embroiled in these.


Seneca the Younger

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Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

Postby gib » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:27 am

Again with the insults to Meno!
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Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

Postby lordoflight » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:18 pm

Guide wrote:However, these are metaphors (above). Since Socrates had in mind learning how to live on the whole. Which is not a matter of quantity or quality.

Useless information, as you indicate, is another matter beside from the primary issue:

Is there any more benefit in knowing this than to know that the Aventine Hill is outside the pomerium, according to him, for one of two reasons: either because that was the rallying point for the plebeians in secession from Rome, or because the birds had not been propitious when Remus took the auspices there; and to know countless other items besides that are either crammed with lies or improbable? For even if you grant that people say all these things in good faith, and even if they guarantee the truthfulness of their writing, whose mistakes will such items of information make fewer? Whose passions will they hold in check? Whom will they make braver, or more just, or more generous of spirit? My friend Fabianus used to say that he sometimes wondered whether it was better to apply oneself to no researches at all than to be embroiled in these.


Seneca the Younger

Reminder:
Morons who use verbal talk with no substance as their primary mode of speech, e.g., "reason not emotion" praters of cliches pointing to the popular authority and thoughtless stupidity of cliches and empty talk, such as Meno, are requested not to interfere with this or any post written by the thinking part of the community.


I would say Meno is the opposite, mostly emotion with reason hidden and buried if you don't have access to his internal decoding script.
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Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:55 pm

Guide wrote:Gigantic morons, such as "Meno", are kindly requested not to interfere with or to hinder the activity of this thread.
There is a function where you can put posters on 'foe'. Then you do not see their posts. Why not take responsibilily for what you experience and is in your power to avoid and stop insulting Meno.
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Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

Postby encode_decode » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:46 pm

lordoflight wrote:I would say Meno is the opposite, mostly emotion with reason hidden and buried if you don't have access to his internal decoding script.

I would say that you are on to something here. Those skilled enough to pull reason out of abstract and/or emotional texts are those more skilled at loving life. Whilst one is also able to come to a clarified point of view on many things, one is also forever limited by the fact that they are confined within a greater reality and that reality itself is a part of the ultimate reality essentially connecting us all whether we like it or not. We can extend what you are saying to all communication in that communication is about using a medium to convey what is within the structure of one's mind; that medium could be poetry, science and other arts and philosophy but one thing that these things I speak of have in common is that they are each a medium that carries information for better or for worse from the sender to the receiver. A tip to gaining access to any internal decoding script is to open one's mind to the substance of what is being presented and conveyed - when we don't understand what is being told us, it is not necessarily the fault of the sender.

An aside: just because one sees oneself skilled in maintaining a memory of what they have read does not make one a philosopher nor a skilled interlocutor. It might pay to remember that we are not living in ancient Greece or another time, like the time of Nietzsche; we now live in the third millennium which requires observation of current times - observation which leads to contemporary philosophy and philosophy more applicable to modern times..
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    Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

    Postby Meno_ » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:23 pm

    encode_decode wrote:
    lordoflight wrote:I would say Meno is the opposite, mostly emotion with reason hidden and buried if you don't have access to his internal decoding script.

    I would say that you are on to something here. Those skilled enough to pull reason out of abstract and/or emotional texts are those more skilled at loving life. Whilst one is also able to come to a clarified point of view on many things, one is also forever limited by the fact that they are confined within a greater reality and that reality itself is a part of the ultimate reality essentially connecting us all whether we like it or not. We can extend what you are saying to all communication in that communication is about using a medium to convey what is within the structure of one's mind; that medium could be poetry, science and other arts and philosophy but one thing that these things I speak of have in common is that they are each a medium that carries information for better or for worse from the sender to the receiver. A tip to gaining access to any internal decoding script is to open one's mind to the substance of what is being presented and conveyed - when we don't understand what is being told us, it is not necessarily the fault of the sender.

    An aside: just because one sees oneself skilled in maintaining a memory of what they have read does not make one a philosopher nor a skilled interlocutor. It might pay to remember that we are not living in ancient Greece or another time, like the time of Nietzsche; we now live in the third millennium which requires observation of current times - observation which leads to contemporary philosophy and philosophy more applicable to modern times..



    I agree, on the basis:

    (Very broadly) That pattern recognition as the modus operans for the support of the conceptually evolved notion of being equal to consciousness ( in the sense of Cantor's phenomenological reliance on Spinoza, - to Wittgenstein's modus operans) of such function relational effects in the use of conceptual relations (family resemblance); to suggest that abstraction, (again in its broadest general-cardinal manifestation )appearing in a system bracketing, sets of objects in a background of intentional usage.

    That one is permitted to use the earlier interwoven objects , and abstract from them those which are signals of interest, prove the value of abstraction, and reversely, and such who cannot or will not let go in this age of high uncertainty, the connections which abstract visual signs whithin an abstract of meaning , results within aesthetics the evolution of conceptual language they are set in, a relative commensurate and coincidental program of decomposition and reconstruction.(I fear that more likely, such was an intentional use or revision , taking abstraction out of it's set and bracketed arrangement. This intentionality is more in line with Kant's idea, that detractors have prematurely labeled too natural, cardinal and fallacious.

    I took the liberty of using philosophically predetermined , non sequential aspects in this proposition.

    It's not for the sake of obfuscation , or an affective search for seizing an opportunity to do one better, or anything along those lines that such meaning is sought, but to enable. a wider use of 'pleasure' a determinate connection with pleasure as a principle. , (even as in trying to get to it- the abstracted meaning, as opposed to a descriptively figured natural ,and ordinal method.

    Otherwise it - the method- may devolve into an impression of affecting new effects for a singular ' reasons.
    If such would have been the case, the bracketing of impressions would have sufficed without further devolution. That abstractly mining for expressions, rather than impressions followed, became such through a reactionary method to cope with such things as Sartre's disillusionment of socialism, particularly representational social realism, built on appearantly insubstantial social foundations.

    As far as the 'group' is concerned, indifference shown in the universal scope of differences, has always been proved out, to be insignificant, to the point of unrecognizability, of a recording horizon, where the justification for a schematized aesthetic preference playing out a hidden , yet inconsequential pattern, usually advanced for unintentional reasons , and references toward, thereof.

    It is not my idea , or sequence of development, I prefer to M. Polanyi, the tacitly held knowledge , which can only be realized by the tools in which they find themselves, as in Al which consciousness is feared to be undifferentiable from human pattern recognition.

    The last comment is bounded on the notion of indeterminate ideas, not necessarily having relevance to the modern world. That has been tossed around a lot , and overlooked is the idea that the hidden continuum does not equate with it's not being testable as an abstraction.

    Its more commensurate with a film of reality spliced together by using still life, as pieces of a puzzling set of component parts.

    This gestalt effectively presents eiher the content or, the vessel in which it's visually encoded-encrypted, with a preferred balance encosing as focus on one detracts that of the other.

    By necessity I posted this not as a defensive gesture, but by way of necessity.
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    Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

    Postby encode_decode » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:04 pm

    Meno_ wrote:That one is permitted to use the earlier interwoven objects , and abstract from them those which are signals of interest, prove the value of abstraction, and reversely, and such who cannot or will not let go in this age of high uncertainty, the connections which abstract visual signs whithin an abstract of meaning , results within aesthetics the evolution of conceptual language they are set in, a relative commensurate and coincidental program of decomposition and reconstruction.(I fear that more likely, such was an intentional use or revision , taking abstraction out of it's set and bracketed arrangement. This intentionality is more in line with Kant's idea, that detractors have prematurely labeled too natural, cardinal and fallacious.

    The mind is of course self serving and embraces signals of interest - this is not just intentional. It seems natural that based on patterns prior learned, that anything new that resembles prior learning is going to trigger any network of information contained within the mind - the brain being the substrate working as a computational device supporting the mind. Such lays the foundation of the principle of the neural network. The mind/brain interface works to set the conceptual language in repetitive cycles that upon each cycle a new integration of new information is performed and thus an expansion or evolution of useful conceptual language takes place.

    This gives the foundation of why it appears that over time, ones mind matures to be able to embrace new concepts or see hidden information within a greater framework. I fear that the stubborn man hinders this natural progression and the attempt to seek perfection of mind is but a fools errand.
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      Re: Ravening against wisdom; what an offense to sound sense.

      Postby Meno_ » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:08 pm

      encode_decode wrote:
      Meno_ wrote:That one is permitted to use the earlier interwoven objects , and abstract from them those which are signals of interest, prove the value of abstraction, and reversely, and such who cannot or will not let go in this age of high uncertainty, the connections which abstract visual signs whithin an abstract of meaning , results within aesthetics the evolution of conceptual language they are set in, a relative commensurate and coincidental program of decomposition and reconstruction.(I fear that more likely, such was an intentional use or revision , taking abstraction out of it's set and bracketed arrangement. This intentionality is more in line with Kant's idea, that detractors have prematurely labeled too natural, cardinal and fallacious.

      The mind is of course self serving and embraces signals of interest - this is not just intentional. It seems natural that based on patterns prior learned, that anything new that resembles prior learning is going to trigger any network of information contained within the mind - the brain being the substrate working as a computational device supporting the mind. Such lays the foundation of the principle of the neural network. The mind/brain interface works to set the conceptual language in repetitive cycles that upon each cycle a new integration of new information is performed and thus an expansion or evolution of useful conceptual language takes place.

      This gives the foundation of why it appears that over time, ones mind matures to be able to embrace new concepts or see hidden information within a greater framework. I fear that the stubborn man hinders this natural progression and the attempt to seek perfection of mind is but a fools errand.



      The stubborn man adhering to a short cut, begins to demean that which made prior sense, does it not intentionally , but by forgetting the intervening variables, because of pressure from piers who fall for the bribe caused by short termed gains and satisfactions. He is absolved, of short-sightedness and selfish pleasure seeking.

      In addition, the sustenance of ideal patterns is integrated as well, or reintegrate within and through this conceptual integration, in reverse proportion to the rate of loss of memory recall, as a consequence of finding short cuts which priorly connected closer meaning structures , or ideas, these had a semantic evolution undefined, Russell called them 'sense-data's, verifiable as closer approximations to intentional usage.

      So to call it an fool hardy project, is to demean the lack of usage through loss of it's uniqueness, upstaged by a toning down if not through popular insignification , as through simplified deconstructed methods , becoming reduced, to encompass the enclosed patterned , unused and forgotten interwoven variable semantic structures. The fool on the hill, is less prone to adept because for non interference his retention can remain unscathed, but it becomes tangled with the newer untangled forms of usage.

      They are used as cut up re-introduction within a canvas of increasingly and apparently abatracted new forms, not understanding that they are archaic and cut off from a restructured canvas.

      The apparent foundation becomes so, in line with the idea of the quantum instability as a way of interpreting its very own inter ference, as changing that interpretation as either a calculated attempt to balance , or a direct resolution caused by current methods of analysis.

      The first notable attempt to describe this process was through 'The Idiot' and through 'Notes from Underground' of Dostoevsky.
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