Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:27 pm

Meno_ wrote:
bahman wrote:"You need two separate electromagnetic fields in order to have two different selves. This requires that electromagnetic field to be zero at the border between the fields. This way, you could only have two non-interacting fields (since electromagnetic filed is zero at the border). The electromagnetic field has to be different from zero if you want to have two interacting fields. But you have one continuous field when the electromagnetic field is not zero at the border. Therefore, one brain one self.

In fact the problem of separated selves is a challenge for materialism".


1. A demonstration of materiality of showing absolute zero (and infinity ) would be necessary ascertain (and discern) acting from interacting at the border.; is one possible derivitive with the problem.

If not shown as somehow derived, may lead to the the idea that such is contrived.


2.Basically saw the light:

Between the magnet and electric flow, is an unavoidable interaction.
The brain wave as energy, manifested by the immeasurability of pre ception, versus the carrier of it's manifestation-the velocity of light, is a measure and indefinite calibration ( relative) .

Therefore the two, are always one.
The difference between one and the other, does not measure in real as opposed to inner qualification or outer calibration.

3. So as a consequence the result of that indifference, there are the various emtying of certain structural (cognitive transfers of simplification, into appearances of cognitive representations) Here artificially installed memory chips may take up the slack - by a combined natural and AI objects. Regulation of the transaction ( inner-outer) is increasingly shifting toward simulated intelligence..



In and out of the garbage of borders


ref:


Symbolic form and gestalt - a creative tension. Ernst Cassirer's contribution to a 'Matrix of mental formation'.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Meno_ » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:34 pm

Symbolic form and gestalt - a creative tension. Ernst Cassirer's contribution to a 'Matrix of mental formation'.


Abstract

In 1894 philosopher Wilhelm Dilthey (Dilthey 1924/1894) initiated a public debate when he accused the empirical research strategies of Psychology (and Psychiatry) of failing to grasp the structural content of mental existence. What was felt as blame in those days has grown to a matter of scandal as Dilthey's allegations still properly describe the state of clinical psychiatry and psychopathological approach-more than a hundred years later. In the early 20th century Germany saw numerous efforts towards philosophically orientated research into the structure of the conscious mind. Amongst the prominent philosophies influencing this research were Husserl's phenomenology of "logical experiences" (Husserl 1984/1901) and Natorp's quest for a "logos of psyche",(Natorp 1965/1912) by which the formation of mind and operational structures of thought and reflection should be determined. Arthur Kronfeld was one of the few psychiatrists to face this demand, and it was upon him to promote a radical change in clinical practice. In 1920 he made the suggestion to trace back mental performance to ontologically irreducible qualities to secure the logic and the theory of psychiatry. Ernst Cassirer's project to analyse "the different basic forms of world understanding" and to establish "a structure of mental formation" (Formenlehre des Geistes) can well be seen as part of this more general debate. Nonetheless, Cassirer altered and widened this approach by stating that the ongoing change of mental frame-which is a unique quality of mankind, as well as his flexibility and ability to create future and realms of possibility-can only emerge from a broader knowledge about relational order. Those skills are grounded in man's ability to expand mental terms and settings of cognition beyond the borders of language to even more abstract spheres, thus claiming that a system of "invariants of experi-ence" (Invariantensystem der Erfahrung) is an integral trait of human cognition (Pluemacher/Sandkuehler 2003). With regards to Cassirer-the key to understanding the conscious mind (and thus psychopathology) lies in the persistent change from terms of "substance" to terms of "function" and the different symbolic levels ...


For those who's enthusiasm is double their doubt.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby kk23wong » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:49 pm

Meno_ wrote:For those who's enthusiasm is double their doubt.


That's true #-o
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:56 pm

kk23wong wrote:
Meno_ wrote:For those who's enthusiasm is double their doubt.


That's true #-o





Is it? How is it ? True.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Tab » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:03 pm

Hey kk23wong,

Sorry only rejoined the site after a prolonged absence. You said in the opening post:

I have suffered from schizophrenia for a decade. My major symptom was ear hallucinations. The mysterious voice come directly into my head and I suspected it was actually the manipulation from the God.


Two things.

1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet I give this link not really arguing about whether or not the 'god helmet' does exactly what its creator says it does, simply to point up that there are areas of the brain which can produce the feeling of a godlike presence, on 'command'.

2)

Peoples' brains basically hallucinate all the time. We don't just hallucinate reality, we, when planning our actions, hallucinate possible future realities very very fast, and then fit the most beneficial one into our principle 'hallucination' of reality. There are a lot more complicated steps to the process, but that's a basic summary.

One of the most important things our brains do is to label one of these multitude of hallucinations "hallucination zero" - reality.

With most people, this mechanism works fine. With schitzophrenia, this mechanism is faulty. It sometimes labels hallucinations that have wholly arisen in the brain, with no outside origin, as reality. What may have begun as a daydream, or a fragment of a memory, is treated as real, and acted upon. These can be anything, a smell, a taste, a vision, a voice.

The simplest explaination for your symptoms are these.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Tab wrote:Hey kk23wong,

Sorry only rejoined the site after a prolonged absence. You said in the opening post:

I have suffered from schizophrenia for a decade. My major symptom was ear hallucinations. The mysterious voice come directly into my head and I suspected it was actually the manipulation from the God.


Two things.

1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet I give this link not really arguing about whether or not the 'god helmet' does exactly what its creator says it does, simply to point up that there are areas of the brain which can produce the feeling of a godlike presence, on 'command'.

2)

Peoples' brains basically hallucinate all the time. We don't just hallucinate reality, we, when planning our actions, hallucinate possible future realities very very fast, and then fit the most beneficial one into our principle 'hallucination' of reality. There are a lot more complicated steps to the process, but that's a basic summary.

One of the most important things our brains do is to label one of these multitude of hallucinations "hallucination zero" - reality.

With most people, this mechanism works fine. With schitzophrenia, this mechanism is faulty. It sometimes labels hallucinations that have wholly arisen in the brain, with no outside origin, as reality. What may have begun as a daydream, or a fragment of a memory, is treated as real, and acted upon. These can be anything, a smell, a taste, a vision, a voice.

The simplest explaination for your symptoms are these.




Tab, how may Cassirer fit in here and this:


"For those who's enthusiasm is double their doubt.


That's true #-o"



{Course, answering or not is no indication of whatever} - meno' s citation
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Tab » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:06 pm

Meh, some things require philosophy, some things don't. This thread is 'some things don't' thread.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Meno_ » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:11 pm

Tab wrote:Meh, some things require philosophy, some things don't. This thread is 'some things don't' thread.



I tend to agree , but one never knows here. , where multiple personae may represent the others, as to where the thing comes from or, where it's heading. It may be a case of misdiagnosis, especially coming from other regions.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Tab » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:42 pm

You have a spot on your face. It's a spot. Not a cancer, not a transdimensional portal to another world, not the face of the buddha. It's a spot.

If you keep on picking away at it, all you are doing is prolonging the time it takes to heal, and giving yourself a scar.

Best thing to do is just put some cream on and forget about it.

Soon enough it's all better.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby promethean75 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:43 pm

big wong wrote:I have suffered from schizophrenia for a decade. My major symptom was ear hallucinations. The mysterious voice come directly into my head and I suspected it was actually the manipulation from the God.


sup, wong... *bows*

you're in a difficult situation bro because you can't know for sure whether you're crazy or not. for all you know you could be a prophet or something. so what we gotta do is work out a safe and rational position for you to take while this shit is going down in your head. so i'm gonna offer you a line of reasoning that'll get you in good with god (if he exists), as well as keep you straight if he doesn't.

rule number one: no reasonable god would ever speak to a human being. and i'll tell you why. god knows that you wouldn't be able to trust a voice in your head... and not only that... to do so would be in direct violation of the principles of reason he designed you to have (which you exercise in your distrust). god wouldn't commit such a gaffe, see. so you can be sure the voice wasn't god's.

next up. spirits and shit. can't trust them either, and i'll you why. if we've ruled out the possibility of the voice being god's, but maintain the possibility of it being the voice of a spirit, we've got a problem.

premise one: if there's only one spirit that exists, and this spirit isn't god's, then we have a subordinate spirit that can't be trusted.

premise two: if there are multiple spirits, then we can't be sure the spirit who talked to us is the one that's right.

same problem socrates pointed out to the greeks when they were discussing the arguments between their gods. you can't trust any of em.

so this leaves us with a genuine hallucination, in which case you're gonna be okay. this just means that your brain is talking to itself... and as weird as this may seem, it's perfectly cool as long as your brain doesn't tell your brain to do something that'll get you arrested.

hope this helps. *bows*
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby felix dakat » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:11 am

Modernity pathologizes spontaneous mental imagery of the soul. That's kind of fucked up. No?

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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby kk23wong » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:38 am

felix dakat wrote:Modernity pathologizes spontaneous mental imagery of the soul. That's kind of fucked up. No?


You're getting close to my thought, but I suspect it means more. I think schizophrenia exposes the presence of the God. She doesn't want to control our minds. She just want to interrupt your normal life. And the cohesions between the God and every human beings are strong. So strong that it requires her to speak to us. She speaks in order to gimmie us more freedom.

It "requires" philosophy, of course. It is an important hint given by the God in our world to her actual existence. The God may not able to enter our world physically, but she can speak to us wirelessly.

Thank you all of you guys. And of course, everyone has her own ways of thinking. Since nobody is capable of changing others' minds, our discussions continue. :lol:
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby promethean75 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:41 pm

but she can speak to us wirelessly.


not me. i've blocked/registered as spam all her calls. she needs to get her shit together and worry about the 1,875 children that die every five minutes, first, before she tries to call me... cuz i ain't tryin to hear it.
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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby felix dakat » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:53 pm

I feel ambivalent about posting this abstract but it was something I observed about schizophrenia when I worked with her:

"Defined in 1910 by Eugen Bleuler as the fundamental symptom of disorders in the spectrum of schizophrenia, ambivalence is the tendency of the schizophrenic mind to make—in a non-dialectic and unsurpassable manner for the subject—two affective attitudes or two opposite ideas coexist at the same time and with the same intensity. Bleuler’s originality was that he thought of ambivalence as the result of an associative loosening brought on by a splitting (Spaltung), or even the clear and radical disappearance (Zerspaltung) of strong associations coming from empirical thought. This symptom, which is always present, even in the mildest of cases, can manifest itself in an affective form (affective Ambivalenz), a volitional form (Ambitendenz), or an intellectual form (intellektuelle Ambivalenz). Nowadays, criterium for diagnosing schizophrenia no longer mention Bleuler’s notion of ambivalence, the major reproach being that it is a symptom that is too rare, too vague, and too psychoanalytic. It is probably this last point that is the most justified. Affective ambivalence, placed at the center of the theory of instincts, is defined according to the subject’s personality structure: it is integrated in a neurotic patient (Freud, 1938), split in a borderline patient (Kernberg, 2004), and paradoxical in a schizophrenic patient (Racamier, 1990). Examined from the viewpoint of psychopathology, we will describe these different forms of ambivalence and explain in what way they differ, to show that Bleulerian ambivalence remains a most interesting basic disorder to diagnose, before presenting equivalents that we were able to find from the angle of phenomenological psychiatry. We will then complete our exposé with contributions from the fields of experimental psychology and psychiatric neurosciences." https://www.cairn-int.info/abstract-E_P ... er-new.htm

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Re: Relationships between Schizophrenia and the God

Postby Meno_ » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:18 pm

True! Psychologically . Aesthetically, by virtue of the very symptomatic defense, inadequate, as a form of compemsation.
How about. Scott Powell's commentary on George Orwell's* 'double think'?

Modern aesthetics has.come a long ways from Kierkegaard's work, 'This sickness unto death.(ref: Antonio Lamarka- 'despair and schizophrenia' a comparative study between Kierkegaard and Laing)

{ See Laing's Commentary}


Scott Powell was member of the Hoover Institute, and the Heritige Foundation .



*Totalitarianism, however, does not so much promise an age of faith as an age of schizophrenia. A society becomes totalitarian when its structure becomes flagrantly artificial: that is, when its ruling class has lost its function but succeeds in clinging to power by force or fraud.- George Orwell


All these sources point towards an anti derivitive, which left unrealized can not become a functional tool in modern psychiatry. Realized, the may rise to an effective rationale of anti-psychiatry.

Not to mention the rise of French symbolism in Capitalism and schizophrenia.(Guattari).
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