Free will for christians

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Free will for christians

Postby Dan~ » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:56 pm

Many monotheists say all was created by a single ultimate God:
But that means bad things were also created by God.
So next they say, we create evil but God does not.
We create evil with our free will,
which means we can choose to do good or bad things.
There are pleanty of cases of good being punished and bad being rewarded.
There is the issue of parasites and disease that was not created by free will
but they still do damage to life in some cases, as an example.

I'd call this christian free-will.
Real free-will is the ability to make finite choices.
This does not cure or clarify the evil of the world.

Evil is any-thing that is greatly disliked.
and Goodness is anything we mostly like.
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Re: Free will for christians

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:44 pm

There is no free will.
Evil is forgetting who and what we actually are.
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Re: Free will for christians

Postby Serendipper » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:21 pm

Dan~ wrote:Many monotheists say all was created by a single ultimate God:
But that means bad things were also created by God.

Isaiah 45:7
I am the Lord, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The funny thing is the Lord regretted the evil he made:

Genesis 6:6
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

So next they say, we create evil but God does not.
We create evil with our free will,
which means we can choose to do good or bad things.


Matthew 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


You have no control where you are planted.

There are pleanty of cases of good being punished and bad being rewarded.
There is the issue of parasites and disease that was not created by free will
but they still do damage to life in some cases, as an example.

Life must die in order for you to live. Your immune system is merrily killing things right now and eventually you will die and feed something else. Life and death can't be a requirement of good and bad because death is a requirement of life.

I'd call this christian free-will.
Real free-will is the ability to make finite choices.
This does not cure or clarify the evil of the world.

What free will?

Romans 8
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


If you're made, you can't help how you're made.

Evil is any-thing that is greatly disliked.
and Goodness is anything we mostly like.

Good and evil is defined by popularity.
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Re: Free will for christians

Postby Dan~ » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:02 am

There is i think, a big difference between modern christians and the original texts of the bible.
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Re: Free will for christians

Postby Serendipper » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:52 am

Dan~ wrote:There is i think, a big difference between modern christians and the original texts of the bible.

Without a doubt.
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Re: Free will for christians

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:41 am

Isaiah 45:7, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” And there it says I create evil. (KJV)

When He says; I make peace and create evil, the word evil means trouble in the Hebrew dictionary.

He is saying that the opposite of peace is turmoil.

Dan~ wrote:
There is i think, a big difference between modern christians and the original texts of the bible.


"Shakespeare's plays reveal that no matter how much language, technology and mores have changed in the past 400 years, human nature is largely undisturbed. Macbeth's ambition, Hamlet's indecision, Iago's jealousy, Kate's feistiness and Juliet's love are all instantly understandable".
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

Old Norse Proverb
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Re: Free will for christians

Postby Serendipper » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:32 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Isaiah 45:7, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” And there it says I create evil. (KJV)

When He says; I make peace and create evil, the word evil means trouble in the Hebrew dictionary.

He is saying that the opposite of peace is turmoil.


So he's saying he is a rascal. Maybe that's a little better than evil, but still isn't good.
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