Something Instead of Nothing

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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:19 pm

Tell us about Carbon.
Remind me I need to watch the video about how life came out of minerals.


If Serendipper sees this please repost.
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby Pneumatic-Coma » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:48 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Nothingness is a lack of its own existence, which forces the opposite; hence, why existence exists.


How are you using the term *Nothingness*? As some perceived and felt aspect of one's own individual human existence within the psyche or as something which has not as yet been discovered and acknowledged within the Universe?


Oh this a grande point.

Has not the mind already existed throughout life so much so that only one material based rock can exist and not another? No. Although within the psyche pain still hurts doesn't it? For have not individualism put into affect acknowledgement of a precursor to date existence back through time. Where if time is hidden, and or if time doesn't exist nothingness, nothingness exists in it's place. Time maybe stood still for a moment for a sum amount of people yet out of something that happened and was going to already happen. Relative reasons as to why time evolves and suppose space were to do the same. Not evolve or evolve. Material matter of which we are not all inherently always apart of witnessing daily. Something instead of nothing is constantly happening.
Last edited by Pneumatic-Coma on Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
(Our object of desire isn't to change current belief systems or complicate already convoluted streams of information; we're not trying to even prove ourselves in anyway. We're just human beings similar to yourself. Not superior, the same. Ancestors of the lost world. The conflicts of beliefs you face in your world, are not only the conflict of self yet life, we cannot compel such conflicts to other's will for any self-benefit. The true goal reached here is there is nothing we can say nor do that can convince anyone else of what they don't know for themselves already. And, when the time calls, and you are ready, the barriers of awareness will expand and such confirmed information will be easily perceived, and known to them! Allow them to seek and find out when they are prepared. All will arrive to light in no time.) Ego sum via veritas et vita;Amesha Spenta;Vohu Mano; Allow all things measurable, microbial and astronomical to remain infinite, unchanged and arrive to light.
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby Pneumatic-Coma » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:51 am

barbarianhorde wrote:Tell us about Carbon.
Remind me I need to watch the video about how life came out of minerals.


If Serendipper sees this please repost.


Oh just precursors barbarian. Matter. Matter substance in general, as distinct from mind, body and spirit.
(Our object of desire isn't to change current belief systems or complicate already convoluted streams of information; we're not trying to even prove ourselves in anyway. We're just human beings similar to yourself. Not superior, the same. Ancestors of the lost world. The conflicts of beliefs you face in your world, are not only the conflict of self yet life, we cannot compel such conflicts to other's will for any self-benefit. The true goal reached here is there is nothing we can say nor do that can convince anyone else of what they don't know for themselves already. And, when the time calls, and you are ready, the barriers of awareness will expand and such confirmed information will be easily perceived, and known to them! Allow them to seek and find out when they are prepared. All will arrive to light in no time.) Ego sum via veritas et vita;Amesha Spenta;Vohu Mano; Allow all things measurable, microbial and astronomical to remain infinite, unchanged and arrive to light.
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby barbarianhorde » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:00 pm

Pneumatic-Coma wrote:
barbarianhorde wrote:Tell us about Carbon.
Remind me I need to watch the video about how life came out of minerals.


If Serendipper sees this please repost.


Oh just precursors barbarian. Matter. Matter substance in general, as distinct from mind, body and spirit.


I think matter has spirit
Carbon has spirit "6"
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby iambiguous » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:28 pm

Pneumatic-Coma wrote:Nothing having ever evolved doesn't sound like a fairy tale stories. This sounds like relative facts. But still a source upon if we throw again a book at someone like the road to evolution or something. Than there might possibly only one sort of element people are forgetting in the mind. Carbon.


There's carbon in mindless matter and carbon in the matter that possess minds. Minds able to employ that carbon [and lots of others elements] to [eventually] create computers and internet forums like this one.

And some trace that all the way back to the Big Bang and to stars that exploded. Explosions that spewed out all the somethingness that turned into this.

And these facts are all relative to whatever brought into the existence that very first somethingness of all. Was it nothingness? And, if so, how does the mindful matter of infinitesimally tiny and insignificant mere mortals on this infinitesimally tiny and insignificant rock in this infinitesimally tiny and insignificant solar system in this infinitesimally tiny and insignificant galaxy in what may well be this infinitesimally and tiny and insignificant universe come to grips with that?

What can we really, really, really know about it?

Before, one by one, we tumble over into the abyss that may well literally become nothing at all for "I". If only for all of eternity.

So, clearly, only the Kids among us really know what's going on. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby Gloominary » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:24 am

But the universe is nothing...a big nothing.
It only appears to be something, like an inkblot.
It only appears to be going somewhere, like a rat race.
The universe is almost entirely empty space.
And full space is almost entirely empty space.
Backwards and forwards in time, inside and outside in space, the universe is infinitely regressive and divisible, there's no origin, destination or substance.
It doesn't repeat itself, so much as it rhymes.
A septillion years from now, the universe will be totally unrecognizable, and a septillion years from then, more unrecognizable still.
And so we are but a means to an alien end.
Our universe is the multiverse, in that it is transformative.
It's a chameleon, a shapeshifter.
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby gib » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:11 pm

Gloominary wrote:But the universe is nothing...a big nothing.


How is this possible?

Gloominary wrote:The universe is almost entirely empty space.
And full space is almost entirely empty space.


Sure, I get that. But the matter we see is a result of the space that isn't empty.

And physicists will tell you that empty space is really filled with particles and waves.
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby Gloominary » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:55 am

@gib

How is this possible?

Because something in the hard sense of the word, means finitely regressive and divisible, which the cosmos doesn't appear to be.
A first cause and final effect, which's absent.
An unchanging pattern and/or substance underpinning change, which's missing.

Sure, I get that. But the matter we see is a result of the space that isn't empty.

And physicists will tell you that empty space is really filled with particles and waves.

The particles and waves themselves are almost entirely empty space.
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby gib » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:06 pm

Gloominary wrote:@gib

How is this possible?

Because something in the hard sense of the word, means finitely regressive and divisible, which the cosmos doesn't appear to be.
A first cause and final effect, which's absent.
An unchanging pattern and/or substance underpinning change, which's missing.


Ah, the universe itself is not a thing. I could hop on board with that (maybe), but it must be filled with things.

(what does finitely regressive mean?)

Gloominary wrote:The particles and waves themselves are almost entirely empty space.


You have to insert 'almost', don't you? If I mark a dot on a piece of paper, I can say the paper is almost completely unmarked. But I can't draw the conclusion there is no mark.

However much of 'something' there is is a relative matter. If space is infinite, you could say that even a single particle is plenty of stuff... or next to infinitesimal... depending on how far you want to zoom out.

But in all seriousness, I've just never *quite* understood how people can jump to the conclusion that the universe is nothing based on 'almost' nothing, or signs of nothing, or a philosophy of balance or opposing forces--at least, as if they themselves understood what they were talking about. It does seem like a 'jump' to me--like there isn't quite enough to draw that conclusion deductively. If the universe really was absolute nothing, we wouldn't be here even to say it's absolute nothing.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby iambiguous » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:18 pm

Gloominary wrote:But the universe is nothing...a big nothing.
It only appears to be something, like an inkblot.
It only appears to be going somewhere, like a rat race.
The universe is almost entirely empty space.
And full space is almost entirely empty space.
Backwards and forwards in time, inside and outside in space, the universe is infinitely regressive and divisible, there's no origin, destination or substance.
It doesn't repeat itself, so much as it rhymes.
A septillion years from now, the universe will be totally unrecognizable, and a septillion years from then, more unrecognizable still.
And so we are but a means to an alien end.
Our universe is the multiverse, in that it is transformative.
It's a chameleon, a shapeshifter.


And then the gap between believing that, in your head, this might be true and demonstrating to yourself and to others that it is in fact true for all of us.

What my mind is never able to quite wrap itself around here is in grappling with the universe in a universe where there are no conscious minds around to do so.

Imagaine for example that human minds are the only minds that exist in the universe. Imagine as well that the Big One hurtles down from space next month and obliterates all human minds. In a universe where there is no God.

The universe still exists [supposedly] but there is no matter around to be cognizant of it.

Still more bizarre [for me] is in imagining a universe where even our own conscious minds are only cognizant of that which they could only ever have been cognizant of. Our awareness of the universe, in other words, is not something that we choose autonomously to be cognizant of. It is just another manifestation of the immutable laws of matter.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby gib » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:13 pm

iambiguous wrote:Still more bizarre [for me] is in imagining a universe where even our own conscious minds are only cognizant of that which they could only ever have been cognizant of. Our awareness of the universe, in other words, is not something that we choose autonomously to be cognizant of. It is just another manifestation of the immutable laws of matter.


Is there another universe we could have been aware of?

Perhaps the only thing that is immutable is the production of consciousness itself, and once there, it will only be aware of whatever's real.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby iambiguous » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:54 pm

gib wrote:
iambiguous wrote:Still more bizarre [for me] is in imagining a universe where even our own conscious minds are only cognizant of that which they could only ever have been cognizant of. Our awareness of the universe, in other words, is not something that we choose autonomously to be cognizant of. It is just another manifestation of the immutable laws of matter.


Is there another universe we could have been aware of?

Perhaps the only thing that is immutable is the production of consciousness itself, and once there, it will only be aware of whatever's real.


Well, in a wholly determined universe, even this exchange that we are having would seem to be unfolding only as it ever could have.

In the only universe that ever could have been.

And that would be linked necessarily to whatever or whoever brought into existence the existence of existence itself.

But how on earth would any particular one of us go about the task of either verifying it or falsifying it?

Human consciousness is often tricked into believing things are one way when in fact they are not that way at all. Optical illusions for example, or the world of magic. Or dreams. You may have a dream in which you are discussing the nature of the universe with another. In the dream, your "I" seems to be calling the shots. But it is really only the brain creating all of it.

Whatever that means.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Something Instead of Nothing

Postby gib » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:23 pm

iambiguous wrote:Well, in a wholly determined universe, even this exchange that we are having would seem to be unfolding only as it ever could have.


True, but we can still have the exchange and find meaning in it.

iambiguous wrote:And that would be linked necessarily to whatever or whoever brought into existence the existence of existence itself.


^ See, right there! ^ Anytime one talks about the "existence of existence," one ought to pause. The existence of existence? That's like saying the redness of red, or the softness of softness. Existence doesn't have existence, it is existence. Ergo, nothing brought it into existence. It always was.

iambiguous wrote:But how on earth would any particular one of us go about the task of either verifying it or falsifying it?


Dunno

iambiguous wrote:Human consciousness is often tricked into believing things are one way when in fact they are not that way at all. Optical illusions for example, or the world of magic. Or dreams. You may have a dream in which you are discussing the nature of the universe with another. In the dream, your "I" seems to be calling the shots. But it is really only the brain creating all of it.


I still don't get why "I" can't just be the subjective way of experiencing the brain--of what it's like being the brain. Why do we have to experience our choices as necessary in order them to be so?
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript
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