Perhaps

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Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:33 pm

A society can be built on taking values are absolutes, where humans give themselves being by refining the degree to which they are able to give and receive them as they are.
I suppose the Hindu society, and the Japanese, have this approach.
Values are hard and eternal as the sword compared to both the life it cuts off and the one it allows another day.

Honour is the sole purpose. Honour is known and seen by every Japanese and Hindu as exactly the same thing. It is only dishonour which is perspectival.

A very good way to cultivate life like a master gardener cultivates a plant.
But we develop it differently. We see values as recognized between those that value.
This puts is now before a question; whether it is possible to defend our values, which we do not hold as absolutes, against the conviction of those that hold the evil of our values as absolute.
Is it impossible to exert ourselves with sufficient force to survive in the name of values which are dependent our belief in them?

This weakening continues until the question at the bottom of this barrel is delved- what is of value besides valuing itself?
Then, what is the value of valuing itself compared to an absolute value of a God? A question of pride at the outset.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:29 pm

Only if you consider the conviccion that your values which are not absolute are absolute evil absolute. Which is folly. There is no absolute.

There is, perhaps, immortality, which is of Gods and heroes. And certain findings of philosophy.

But no absolutes. Absolutely no absolutes? An obtuse question. I gave you immortality already, now stop your cowering and accept reality.

Chaos is the proof that there is no absolutes. Go trip on this a while and come back to me.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:58 pm

There are lots of absolutes ....

If existence didn't exist forever, you wouldn't be here, as you are a subset of existence.

Absolute.

Do you want other ones?
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:59 pm

No, thank you, that will do.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:07 pm

But what of absolute values?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:09 pm

There are none.

Behind every mask there is a mask.

That this is not basic speaks ill of the world, but that's ok. Evolution is painful.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:12 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:But what of absolute values?


Sure. How about you're with a partner for a million billion trillion years and you want to move on and he/ she doesn't at this juncture ... how do you make this ethical for both parties? You do just what I prescribed... everyone hallucinates their entire reality from eternal forms. I watch the long game, and all I see is desolation and heartbreak. People are curious by nature.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:19 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:But what of absolute values?


Sure. How about you're with a partner for a million billion trillion years and you want to move on and he/ she doesn't at this juncture ... how do you make this ethical for both parties? You do just what I prescribed... everyone hallucinates their entire reality from eternal forms. I watch the long game, and all I see is desolation and heartbreak. People are curious by nature.

The game is the game.
An absolute law.
But is it a value?
Is the game of value-exchange valuable?
In all cases where there are values at all, the value-exchanges value is very high.
Since value exchange, when spontaneous, on average means value-increase, and since this is why things live, the exchanges value to life is absolute. But the value of life is not absolute.

Without a valuer there can be no value, thus the value of valuing is absolute; still, it can be absolutely zero depending on your attitude.
This is what I mean with morality: to value for the sake of it, or to value for the sake of values to exist. This is will on a grand scale.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:23 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:But what of absolute values?


Sure. How about you're with a partner for a million billion trillion years and you want to move on and he/ she doesn't at this juncture ... how do you make this ethical for both parties? You do just what I prescribed... everyone hallucinates their entire reality from eternal forms. I watch the long game, and all I see is desolation and heartbreak. People are curious by nature.

The game is the game.
An absolute law.
But is it a value?
Is the game of value-exchange valuable?
In all cases where there are values at all, the value-exchanges value is very high.
Since value exchange, when spontaneous, on average means value-increase, and since this is why things live, the exchanges value to life is absolute. But the value of life is not absolute.

Without a valuer there can be no value, thus the value of valuing is absolute; still, it can be absolutely zero depending on your attitude.
This is what I mean with morality: to value for the sake of it, or to value for the sake of values to exist. This is will on a grand scale.


Cute. Do you want to go to hell forever for writing that post that you thought was really badass at the time? Everyone values not hell forever. Fortunately for you, you're seen as a child, so the universe lets it go as a mistake you made as a child.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:28 pm

The mistake is in the vagueness of value.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:33 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:The mistake is in the vagueness of value.


What's vague about value...?

For everyone who has innate values, it is certain that nobody wants this impeded. We are left with a world with more than one being in it, or we are left with my solution. I am as far from a drama queen as can be, and I'm sitting here with a room full of men (of all things) who are serious drama queens.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:34 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Cute. Do you want to go to hell forever for writing that post that you thought was really badass at the time? Everyone values not hell forever. Fortunately for you, you're seen as a child, so the universe lets it go as a mistake you made as a child.

It made me know you are a sick evil person.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:35 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:The mistake is in the vagueness of value.

No, value is the only thing that is not vague.
Pricing is vague; judgements are vague; reflexes are never vague. Values have embedded the reflexes as their sharpest preceptors.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:37 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Cute. Do you want to go to hell forever for writing that post that you thought was really badass at the time? Everyone values not hell forever. Fortunately for you, you're seen as a child, so the universe lets it go as a mistake you made as a child.

It made me know you are a sick evil person.


How so? Elucidate and elaborate.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:38 pm

Let's not talk again.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:39 pm

Consider this:

Cruelty only exists in life. Without life, there is no cruelty. Just planets placidly orbiting. Even when they crash into eachother or are obliterated by an exploding star or sucked into near infinite destruction by a black hole, there is no cruelty.

You say this makes cruelty absolute? I agree with Ecmandu, that makes hell forever absolute. But that's not why it's a lie. It's a lie because it's a mask, over another mask.

Made of a million made of a millions. There is no atom. The mistake is not that there is no atom but the question is there an atom.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:42 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Let's not talk again.


Ahh... Mr. (I always post as a badass) Fixed Cross... running. No worries. You're also seen as a child.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:42 pm

"Value" is vague. "I want to spank that ass" is specific. And it is not atomic.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:44 pm

To be clear: that there is no absolute does the opposite of make things less real.

It is, in fact, the way to be truly born. And awed. At the vastness of how much real there is. And how real it is.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:45 pm

Dude.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:46 pm

Also, you notice the desert of human valuing.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:47 pm

As it is.
"I am not fazed by myself. I have dragged myself through too much of myself to be fazed. Others are disturbed by the slightes articulation of themselves. But they are unfazed by the machine."
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:49 pm

Don't dude me. I BEEN through hell. I dreamed in hell. Now life is bland.

Not internal crisis hell. All around me hell. Generational poverty hell. Real hell.
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:50 pm

My only question about hell is: if I'm going there forever, how can I make it nice?
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Re: Perhaps

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:50 pm

Trump restored value politically, as I did logically in 2011; No way back now. What follows is that value is restored religiously.
This is when valuing rears its ugly mask, when it strikes horror, when you know it's real.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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