Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you understand

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Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you understand

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:56 pm

Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you understand why we call immoral gods, “Gods”?

Not all gods are immoral but our mainstream ones are definitely that.

God’s law, should he/she/it ever show up, --- is supposed to become earth’s law, imposed by force, --- as need be, --- and the religious way, --- instead of sound moral arguments.

God is demonstrably not moral.

One of the more important commandments to us is that of not killing humans. God kills humans.

I assume that that law would be high on our commandment list; commands to a slave from a master. Yet God exempts himself from that good law and does this evil will and kills humans.

That commandment is a subjective position and as I can think of a few instances where killing a human would be the moral thing to do. That commandment is thus immoral.

I do not think it’s a good idea to give an obviously and demonstrably immoral Gods respect but many theists do.

The power to make human laws should never be given to our immoral gods. Especially Yahweh and Allah, who I think are the bottom of the barrel on morals.

Human law seeks to be moral and humane and should never be putrefied by the immoral Gods that mankind has create in our image.

To do so would be insane.

So tell me please, --- fellow religionist and believers, --- something I do not understand.

Why you and I call our gods, “God”, --- when he is such an immoral character, --- fictional or not?

Are we such immoral entities ourselves? I am immoral. Are you?

Regards
DL

P.S. When you reply, I might have to do this to those who will not answer from the heart and try to use their holy book of myths and turn to preaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8
Remember also my fellow religionists and believers, all clergy of all faiths are liars. God himself told me this when he told me to think more demographically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjRy29R4gP8
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Dan~ » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:34 am

Biblical Tora based God stuff, I think that's the one you are having trouble with.
Folk religions have gods too, dating back to the early ancestor worship.
Folk religion is paganism. Some churches would say that's evil.
Moral confusion makes it difficult to know what's right.
Some people leave their churches that they were born into,
realizing it was mentally toxic for them.

Long ago it was a habit to blame gods for events that people didn't understand.
God of the gaps. That is part of how theism happened.

During the era of monarchy, god was depicted as a king.
At that time, it made sense to people that god would be kingly.
Also slavery was in practice and so they thought it would be normal
for a king to have many slaves.

Humans dump a lot of their crap on God,
then afterwards they worship it.
This has little to do with a divine maker.
It has to do with anthropocentric complexes.

It doesn't matter if a person is a little bit stupid or greatly foolish.
They can't change God. Realize that.
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:39 am

Dan~ wrote:Biblical Tora based God stuff, I think that's the one you are having trouble with.
Folk religions have gods too, dating back to the early ancestor worship.
Folk religion is paganism. Some churches would say that's evil.
Moral confusion makes it difficult to know what's right.
Some people leave their churches that they were born into,
realizing it was mentally toxic for them.

Long ago it was a habit to blame gods for events that people didn't understand.
God of the gaps. That is part of how theism happened.

During the era of monarchy, god was depicted as a king.
At that time, it made sense to people that god would be kingly.
Also slavery was in practice and so they thought it would be normal
for a king to have many slaves.

Humans dump a lot of their crap on God,
then afterwards they worship it.
This has little to do with a divine maker.
It has to do with anthropocentric complexes.

It doesn't matter if a person is a little bit stupid or greatly foolish.
They can't change God. Realize that.


To believe we cannot change God is to go into intellectual and moral dissonance. You are talking imaginary supernatural gods, and you have no clue of what you are talking about.

So say the more intelligent ancients and modern thinkers.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Regards
DL
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:59 am

Greatest I am wrote:"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

God, big 'G'.

And...
Origen taught that, before the creation of the material universe, God had created the souls of all the intelligent beings. These souls, at first fully devoted to God, fell away from him and were given physical bodies.



His teachings on the pre-existence of souls were rejected by the Church
Let us be very clear. He believed in non-corporeal souls and ones which existed before the universe was made.

He has an ontology with demons, angels, and Christ as a distinct entity, not merely as somethign inside all of us.

IOW he believed in a lot of supernatural beings. Of course he would have throught of them as natural or at least not in the natural/supernatural dichotomy which would likely be foreign to him. The split between the physical and the non-physical, the imminant and the transcendent, that he believed in.
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:04 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

God, big 'G'.

And...
Origen taught that, before the creation of the material universe, God had created the souls of all the intelligent beings. These souls, at first fully devoted to God, fell away from him and were given physical bodies.



His teachings on the pre-existence of souls were rejected by the Church
Let us be very clear. He believed in non-corporeal souls and ones which existed before the universe was made.

He has an ontology with demons, angels, and Christ as a distinct entity, not merely as somethign inside all of us.

IOW he believed in a lot of supernatural beings. Of course he would have throught of them as natural or at least not in the natural/supernatural dichotomy which would likely be foreign to him. The split between the physical and the non-physical, the imminant and the transcendent, that he believed in.


When I see a reversal of opinions, I have to wonder what caused the reversal.

Perhaps what I quoted was done before he went senile and stupid or after he gained insight.

Regards
DL
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby felix dakat » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:27 pm

I'm not sure why you see it as a reversal. You wouldn't expect Origen to have a modern cosmology in the third century.

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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 am

felix dakat wrote:I'm not sure why you see it as a reversal. You wouldn't expect Origen to have a modern cosmology in the third century.


I see it as a reversal because it goes into the supernatural and he was not a literal reader of their myths, which is where he would have gotten supernatural info. He was a realist, to me, not a supernatural believing fool.

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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:16 am

Greatest I am wrote:
felix dakat wrote:I'm not sure why you see it as a reversal. You wouldn't expect Origen to have a modern cosmology in the third century.


I see it as a reversal because it goes into the supernatural and he was not a literal reader of their myths, which is where he would have gotten supernatural info. He was a realist, to me, not a supernatural believing fool.

Regards
DL
Everyone takes metaphors literally, and doesn't realize they do, at least most of the time. Our everyday language, even on language itself, is littered with dead metaphors, iow with skewed and image based and analogical ideas about reality.
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:34 pm

It is rumored that Origen castrated himself. Should we go and do likewise?
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
felix dakat wrote:I'm not sure why you see it as a reversal. You wouldn't expect Origen to have a modern cosmology in the third century.


I see it as a reversal because it goes into the supernatural and he was not a literal reader of their myths, which is where he would have gotten supernatural info. He was a realist, to me, not a supernatural believing fool.

Regards
DL
Everyone takes metaphors literally, and doesn't realize they do, at least most of the time. Our everyday language, even on language itself, is littered with dead metaphors, iow with skewed and image based and analogical ideas about reality.


Not everyone believes in talking serpents and 7 headed monsters.

In fact, no one with half a brain will.

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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:39 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Not everyone believes in talking serpents and 7 headed monsters.

In fact, no one with half a brain will.

LOL, are you saying that no one whose had a hemispherectomy is a theist of the type you hate?
You're not correct, or you're being metaphorical.

Further there are plenty of geniuses in history who believed in supernatural agents. Scientists, writers, musicians, engineers, military leaders and more.

But more importantly, you consider specific myth beliefs more irrational than all the irrational things people believe based on dead metaphors. I think the one's most people don't even think about as an issue are more dangerous.

But in any case, when you appealed to authority with Origen your authority it turns out, according to you, had less than half a brain.

Next....
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Re: Should we declare gods public enemy # 1.? Do you underst

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:53 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Not everyone believes in talking serpents and 7 headed monsters.

In fact, no one with half a brain will.

LOL, are you saying that no one whose had a hemispherectomy is a theist of the type you hate?
You're not correct, or you're being metaphorical.

Further there are plenty of geniuses in history who believed in supernatural agents. Scientists, writers, musicians, engineers, military leaders and more.

But more importantly, you consider specific myth beliefs more irrational than all the irrational things people believe based on dead metaphors. I think the one's most people don't even think about as an issue are more dangerous.

But in any case, when you appealed to authority with Origen your authority it turns out, according to you, had less than half a brain.

Next....


What can I say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6Mr ... re=related

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DL
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