"Slavery is a choice."

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Re: "Slavery is a choice."

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:16 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
"wait a minute, youve been here for 400 years, all of you? That looks like a choice."

Valid?

Do you mean they could have moved somewhere? And should have if they don't like it here? Something like that?

I gather you didn't watch the video I posted, where the quote was taken from.
What he means, I gather, is that they could have stopped acting like slaves once they were given civil rights.
The ground to his observation is visible in the video, the religious objection to a non-patronizing president.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: "Slavery is a choice."

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
"wait a minute, youve been here for 400 years, all of you? That looks like a choice."

Valid?

Do you mean they could have moved somewhere? And should have if they don't like it here? Something like that?

I gather you didn't watch the video I posted, where the quote was taken from.
What he means, I gather, is that they could have stopped acting like slaves once they were given civil rights.
The ground to his observation is visible in the video, the religious objection to a non-patronizing president.

Sorry, I should have watched it again. I saw it a while ago and hopped in lazily here.
So it is directed at those who are acting like slaves. While a child of divorce he had a college professor as a mother and interestingly a Black Panther or ex-one as a father. Middle class, well educated. Cool. Though he might not know what some of his people, who he thinks are acting like slaves have to deal with, from the inside, that is.

Which does not mean one cannot rise up. Nor does it mean that individuals should not be confronted. But waving a moral wand over groups of people like that
which becomes interesting for non-blacks
since they can then vent via a black at other blacks.

Like we know the timeline, statistically. It should have been more who pulled themselves out and up.

Based on what.

It is good when leaders within aim this at others within. But without, in front of others. I don't think it helps.
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Re: "Slavery is a choice."

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:29 pm

All Im seeing is a guy who says "we're free, lets work with each other" getting put down by his community.
If thats not proof of slave-mentality, I bet Im gonna see a brick fall to the sky in a moment.

The community represented here by well to do black people with a hell of a lot more perspective than most of the white people you'll meet on this site. I think they are all full of shit an frankly, fascists.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: "Slavery is a choice."

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:36 pm

Thats the sick part of it, that most of these people, black and white, who are making names for themselves complaining about Trumps, are filthy rich, earning much more than the average person can dream of.

It is so terribly sad to see rich black people sit around cursing poor white people for electing what is definitely the least racist president in history.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: "Slavery is a choice."

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:00 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:All Im seeing is a guy who says "we're free, lets work with each other" getting put down by his community.
If thats not proof of slave-mentality, I bet Im gonna see a brick fall to the sky in a moment.
I don't know the dynamics between KW and his community, so it's hard for me to weigh in on it. We're free, let's work together is peachy. But it's an oversimplification. There are a lot of contexts where someone saying that to me would come off as wanting to deny stuff, to be holier than thou, to think he gets my life. Whereas some other approach might be really effective.

The community represented here by well to do black people with a hell of a lot more perspective than most of the white people you'll meet on this site. I think they are all full of shit an frankly, fascists.
I suppose I could go in and try to get the wider context. I reacted to the thread title and what I remembered and then what you have pulled out and focused on.

Slavery wasn't a choice, unless you want to go to some very abstract metaphysical level. OK, well now they are not slaves, but in his listeners and I don't think he either are thinking in Nietschian terms when they hear that phrase. They hear that as saying that whatever obstacles they face are choices. And while there are ways that can be true there are ways it is not. And it comes off holier than thou to given who he is and where his started in the ladder.

Some white celebrity from a similar backgrond to KW starts telling me I should be dealing better with whatever my obstacles are and my main reaction will be to tell him to fuck off. A friend calls me on my shit understanding my obstacles, that's a different story. A celebrity who can come from a different angle can also do that.

We can all find facile shit aimed at us, Hallmark card dismissals and what attitudes we should have.

I expect more from someone who thinks he's a genius with superpowers.

You can't expect your own mania NOT to be part of the context within which banal shit is responded to.

He wants to reach people, he got to get his feet on the ground and walk with them. The people who do that can call people on their shit.

Run around spouting half baked shit like you know how other people should be living their lives - I mean a whole mass of people - and you aren't really even grounded in your own mental health

well, you're gonna get backlash.

I love what he said about Hilary C., later, after that show. The guy has insight and a way with words. He can do this well if he wants to. I don't think he did then.
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Re: "Slavery is a choice."

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:26 pm

I don't think you're being fair.
Not deeply unfair, but not fair nonetheless.

First of all all Kanye West did is wear a MAGA hat in public.
He was then threatened and condemned by millions. Very nazistic reaction.
In the video here, he was clearly invited, he didn't bang on the door to come and preach.
He was asked questions, and he answers these in the best way he can.

Nuances matter here.

Nor is Kanye behaving like you suggest he is. He is not preaching about the other guys life. He is defending his own decisions, he is expressing his honest preferences, and he is not telling the others what to feel or do. He is just expressing some thoughts.

I find it troubling if the only public black guy who is expressing actual thoughts rather than accusations is attacked for this as if expressing thought as a black guy is betrayal of your race. This is definitely very sad to see in a culture I had always thought had a lot of self-respect.

Kanye is a hero of mine, a giant of music and as I see it an enlightened guy. A lot of my heroes are black. But Kanye at this point is the one who keeps his head above water.

One thing I like is that he understands that he is privileged, something Snoop Dogg and Jay Z apparently do not realize even though its all they rap about. Billionaire Jay Z with his wife Beyonce, they really seem to think of themselves as dirt poor beggars struggling for justice in the alleys around Trump Tower or something.

If a billion dollars isn't enough, what is? When will Jay Z feel he has enough money to compensate for the fact that he isn't white?
Would he really like it if he were white, and growing up in Kentucky? Would he feel like more of a man?
I honestly don't get how these people can be so graceless with their luck and wealth.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: "Slavery is a choice."

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:42 pm

I mean a billionaire artist who made his billion rapping about his previous life of selling cocaine, in what universe does he need to feel sorry for himself? How precisely is he of a lesser status than a debt laden student or a struggling farmer or some guy on food stamps?

Maybe there isn't such a thing as racism against whites, but there certainly is a blind disregard for the toils of the vast majority of white people in this whole discourse about Trump. Life is pretty tough for us all down here, is what Id say to the filthy rich of all colours.

Why doesn't Jay Z share his money with the people he supposedly cares for? Why doesn't Bill gates or Mark Zuckerberg build a village with provisions for immigrants? Because all of their indignation is utterly fake, cruel narcissism.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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