Cause of Mass Shootings Revealed:

[Mr Reasonable]

It's a fact that the dude doesn't know about the facts, so there shouldn't be a problem with stating that unless you mean that we ought not state facts.

There's a long running debate in philosophy as to whether reason ought be the slave of passion or vice versa. I assumed that everyone knew all about that since it's 101 level stuff. If you think it's not relevant to point out when someone is doing it wrong, then you've should explain why. Stuff isn't wrong just because you don't like it. And if you want to have passion first and then reason from it, then go and be an artist.

[Silhouette]

Always believe clickbait titles and "revealed" truth in general.

Because of course there is only a single simple reason for issues such as mass shootings and those performing the shootings are typically leftist with their gun fetishes and fantasies of fame or infamy?!

FC, I used to regard you as a thinker - what happened? Since I returned you've turned into this alt-right sensationalist mouthpiece - I am presuming this is an extension of some profound ethical insight that you should turn out this way?

[Mr Reasonable]

He's upset about the erosion of European culture that's resulting from mass migrations of Arabs out of places that the US is bombing. He thinks that Trump has got the right idea, but he's not connecting the dots about the differences between American and European cultures on the ground.

Like if your city had been overrun by people from someplace else and your government, or the people there were too weak to stop it, and you were super proud of your homeland and your culture the way some Europeans are, then you'd be pretty pissed off. But the US isn't being overrun, and the government here is strong enough to stop it from getting out of hand, and the people of the US don't care too much about the esoteric aspects of culture in the way that Europeans do. So from his perspective Trump is good, even though Trump is actually very bad for the US.

[URUZ]

ed14.jpg (24.73 KiB) Viewed 2962 times

[Carleas]

UrGod, what are you doing? CNN hasn't been mentioned in this thread, much less cited.

It's a bit ironic to use a tribal non-sequitur to lay allegations of "spin".

[Mr Reasonable]

He's failing to respond to the posts and attempting to derail a thread.

[URUZ]

Not at all, I am making a point about intellectual dishonesty. I am entirely unsurprised that the point went over all of your heads.

[Mr Reasonable]

Nothing funnier than watching an idiot pretend to be the smart guy in the room.

[URUZ]

Nothing funnier than watching an idiot pretend to be the smart guy in the room.

Go ahead and make an actual argument and we will see who the idiot is.

I suppose that is why you never make any... actual arguments.

[Mr Reasonable]

Like the one you just responded to with a picture of a washing machine?

[Silhouette]

Post a meme to win an argument, Smears.

[Meno_]

You can't post arguments on the basis of pointing to obvious differences between figurative and literal interpretations.
All that's achieved in that case is a regression to duality, of whose basis is usually grounded in emotionalism.

And emotionalism takes away from effective communication.

[Mr Reasonable]

Like I said earlier in this thread, a point to which he's yet to respond...I think he's too emotional to have an actual debate. He's reasoning from his feelings instead of deriving his feelings from reason. I think I've said that a handful of times to him and he just keeps ignoring it. He's asking me for an argument when I must have typed 1000 words and I gave a relatively thorough analysis of the issue of gun control. He ignored that and posted a picture of a washing machine and said something about CNN.

He's just young, not completely mature, not completely educated and not completely emotionally stable. He's apparently deeply insecure and still in that stage where "winning", as in "beating someone in an argument" is more important than having a full understanding of a given issue. You can always spot these guys because they cling like crazy to one overarching ideal and everything that they express can be linked back to just that ideal. They're not reasoning, analyzing, understanding, synthesizing information and coming to valid conclusions about reality. Instead, they're trying to use rhetorical force, via a sequence of obvious fallacies to insist that the world is the way that they want it to be.

Wouldn't it be better to understand how things actually are?

[Mr Reasonable]

Here's a pretty good one.

[Inconvenient Reality]

Here's a pretty good one.

That's what you call "reasoning, analyzing, understanding, synthesizing information and coming to valid conclusions about reality"? And totally not emotional whatsoever I bet.

[Silhouette]

Here's a pretty good one.

That's what you call "reasoning, analyzing, understanding, synthesizing information and coming to valid conclusions about reality"? And totally not emotional whatsoever I bet.

I see the irony is lost on you.

Like I said earlier in this thread, a point to which he's yet to respond...I think he's too emotional to have an actual debate. He's reasoning from his feelings instead of deriving his feelings from reason. I think I've said that a handful of times to him and he just keeps ignoring it. He's asking me for an argument when I must have typed 1000 words and I gave a relatively thorough analysis of the issue of gun control. He ignored that and posted a picture of a washing machine and said something about CNN.

He's just young, not completely mature, not completely educated and not completely emotionally stable. He's apparently deeply insecure and still in that stage where "winning", as in "beating someone in an argument" is more important than having a full understanding of a given issue. You can always spot these guys because they cling like crazy to one overarching ideal and everything that they express can be linked back to just that ideal. They're not reasoning, analyzing, understanding, synthesizing information and coming to valid conclusions about reality. Instead, they're trying to use rhetorical force, via a sequence of obvious fallacies to insist that the world is the way that they want it to be.

Wouldn't it be better to understand how things actually are?

I made a very similar analysis of him on another thread independently.

It's interesting how you point out that he's reasoning from his feelings instead of deriving his feelings from reason - this is exactly what he accuses "the left" of doing, against whom he has set himself. Another thing he assumes is that those he is against just make up stuff in line with their emotions and without reason - which of course is also exactly what he does. The "projection" is obvious to outside observers. I just wrote a rant on another thread about short attention spans and instant gratification, which is exactly in line with your observation about him simply wanting to "win" rather than grow. He encapsulates a caricatured version of all the fallacies that you would expect from somebody who knows nothing but suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect, and in line with that, he holds this conviction that he is particularly superior. I think the feeling of understanding how things actually are is more valuable to him than actually understanding how things actually are.

[Mr Reasonable]

Here's a pretty good one.

That's what you call "reasoning, analyzing, understanding, synthesizing information and coming to valid conclusions about reality"? And totally not emotional whatsoever I bet.

Start at the beginning of the thread. It's only 2 pages. When you're caught up, get back to me.

[Fixed Cross]

Always believe clickbait titles and "revealed" truth in general.

Because of course there is only a single simple reason for issues such as mass shootings and those performing the shootings are typically leftist with their gun fetishes and fantasies of fame or infamy?!

FC, I used to regard you as a thinker - what happened? Since I returned you've turned into this alt-right sensationalist mouthpiece - I am presuming this is an extension of some profound ethical insight that you should turn out this way?

You mistake having a conscience for "sensationalism".
Anyway, me and my sensationalist buddies won the battle, thank god.
You and your buddies can take over the stage again and yell politically correct murder, it wont be of any consequence. Hillary is running for Facebook.

Maybe The Rock will run.

[Silhouette]

You mistake having a conscience for "sensationalism".
Anyway, me and my sensationalist buddies won the battle, thank god.
You and your buddies can take over the stage again and yell politically correct murder, it wont be of any consequence. Hillary is running for Facebook.

Maybe The Rock will run.

If you're talking about the election, and I am no supporter of Hillary, then yes you and your conscientious buddies got the branding that you needed for the same tyranny that we'd have got either way.

[Karpel Tunnel]

You mistake having a conscience for "sensationalism".
Anyway, me and my sensationalist buddies won the battle, thank god.
You and your buddies can take over the stage again and yell politically correct murder, it wont be of any consequence. Hillary is running for Facebook.

Maybe The Rock will run.

If you're talking about the election, and I am no supporter of Hillary, then yes you and your conscientious buddies got the branding that you needed for the same tyranny that we'd have got either way.

Nicely and concisely put.

[Fixed Cross]

Huh?
Isis is defeated, the Korean War is resolving, Russia is no longer on the verge of starting WWIII, Israel is allowed its own capital, European countries are being liberated from Neocon yoke -
Its a pity so many Americans have no clue that they have the first human world leader ever. I mean that. I can still cry in gratitude. Trump is more benevolent for the world than Jesus.

Don't watch so much Jimmy Kimmel.

[Karpel Tunnel]

Huh?
Isis is defeated,

Primarily thanks to Russia and the Syrian government. Russia was the first nation to real go for them.

the Korean War is resolving,

Here Trumps hazardous move may well have done some good.

Russia is no longer on the verge of starting WWIII,

It's not Russia that is setting up weapon systems, chemical weapons factories, anti-ballistic missiles all in close proximity to the US. Nor has Russia been destabilizing countries near Russia to set up puppet governments and get control of resources there. And Trumps highly pro-Israel, let's find a way to have a war with Iran team - just look at their histories and goals, is also very destabilizing.

Israel is allowed its own capital,

It had that before.

European countries are being liberated from Neocon yoke -

Not hardly. I'm over here, privitization, centralization of power, consolidation of media, more 'free market' solutions, the whole neo-con agenda is just moving on just as it did in the US and Britain, only later. Parties that resist neocon economic policies are weakening every day. And even if Britain manages to actually Brexit -the jury is still out - they will be under corporate thumb.

Its a pity so many Americans have no clue that they have the first human world leader ever.

The first human world leader is then a sociopath. I wouldn't let a guy with those eyes near my family.

[Fixed Cross]

Huh?
Isis is defeated,

Primarily thanks to Russia and the Syrian government. Russia was the first nation to real go for them.

the Korean War is resolving,

Here Trumps hazardous move may well have done some good.

Isis is Obonko/Clonts creation. Trump allowed them to be destroyed.
He reversed the most Satanic US policies in history.

Russia is no longer on the verge of starting WWIII,

It's not Russia that is setting up weapon systems, chemical weapons factories, anti-ballistic missiles all in close proximity to the US. Nor has Russia been destabilizing countries near Russia to set up puppet governments and get control of resources there. And Trumps highly pro-Israel, let's find a way to have a war with Iran team - just look at their histories and goals, is also very destabilizing.

Iran is a genocidal state sacrificing more Arabs (about which they don't care) than anyone else. Tens of millions by now, the past 100 years.
Thank the gods that Trump shredded that deal with them. In any case because Clont is no longer allowed to put mini nukes all around the Russian border, Russia has backed down from its last-resort scenario, which it was ready to employ in 2015/'16 after the failed Nato coup in Moscow in '14.

I don't know if you are an ideological antisemite, but otherwise I wouldn't know what is wrong about being pro-Israel. The Jews have a tiny sliver of land for which they fought and suffered three millennia. For some, quite a lot of people actually, this is too much already. They should have nothing. I don't think so.

Israel is allowed its own capital,

It had that before.

Im talking about the Embassy move. Breaking the hypocrisy of subhuman regimes judging what another nations capital should be on account of their "morals". An end to a great nausea. Just one of the bits of sanity Trump recovered for humanity.

European countries are being liberated from Neocon yoke -

Not hardly. I'm over here, privitization, centralization of power, consolidation of media, more 'free market' solutions, the whole neo-con agenda is just moving on just as it did in the US and Britain, only later. Parties that resist neocon economic policies are weakening every day. And even if Britain manages to actually Brexit -the jury is still out - they will be under corporate thumb.

Britain is already islamic. But Britain was never part of Europe, it was always trying to destroy us.
For the rest, Trumps win has emboldened all the nationalist and sane parties. It will still be a long struggle, but we stand to win it now. Not necessarily peacefully, but thats okay.

Its a pity so many Americans have no clue that they have the first human world leader ever.

The first human world leader is then a sociopath. I wouldn't let a guy with those eyes near my family.

Interesting, a sociopath who saved more people from hell than any other human in history.

[Karpel Tunnel]

Isis is Obonko/Clonts creation. Trump allowed them to be destroyed.
He reversed the most Satanic US policies in history.

The jury is still out for me on what he is up to in Syria. I am not even sure he knows. Isis is also a Bush creation. The neo-cons are not just democrats.

Iran is a genocidal state sacrificing more Arabs (about which they don't care) than anyone else. Tens of millions by now, the past 100 years.

I am not fan of Iran, but the warmongers in his council, those he chose that is, are neo-cons to the bone and they do not give a shit about the arab population in Iran or anywhere else. They do not care what damage a war with Iran would cause or how many more terrorists get created by such a war. But my jury is out on what he is up to, but his choice of advisors looks pretty fucked up

I don't know if you are an ideological antisemite, but otherwise I wouldn't know what is wrong about being pro-Israel. The Jews have a tiny sliver of land for which they fought and suffered three millennia. For some, quite a lot of people actually, this is too much already. They should have nothing. I don't think so.

I appreciate you not assuming I am an anti-semite. What a world where someone can imply that I would seem to be, but at least leave the door open, and I feel grateful. It is so easy online to just state that the other person is X, when it is not the only option. Israel has supported all sorts of fucked up regimes in Africa and South America, for example. They destabilize other countries in the region and they COUPLE WITH THE NEOCONS and Saudi Arabia destablize not only the Middle East but superpower relations. Their internal policies are racist and not just against arabs but against the 'wrong kind of jews'. I don't conflate governments with the people in the countries. If you are american I would not assume you were a neo con. And Israel tries to enforce pc speech laws all over the place in the world and quite effectively.

Israel is allowed its own capital,

It had that before.

Im talking about the Embassy move.

I figured, just pointing out the obvious.

Breaking the hypocrisy of subhuman regimes judging what another nations capital should be on account of their "morals". An end to a great nausea. Just one of the bits of sanity Trump recovered for humanity.

It did nothing to their opinions, likely hardened them.

European countries are being liberated from Neocon yoke -

Not hardly. I'm over here, privitization, centralization of power, consolidation of media, more 'free market' solutions, the whole neo-con agenda is just moving on just as it did in the US and Britain, only later. Parties that resist neocon economic policies are weakening every day. And even if Britain manages to actually Brexit -the jury is still out - they will be under corporate thumb.

Britain is already islamic. But Britain was never part of Europe, it was always trying to destroy us.

If US is the US this would be news to the neocons. Together they have wandered through the middle east destroying countries together, share policies in relation to the other superpowers, and got together happily with France to try regime change in Syria, which led to the refugee/migration crisis, the rise of Isis, making Russia more nervous than it should be and more. And Brexit also made nationalists happy in other Eu countries.

For the rest, Trumps win has emboldened all the nationalist and sane parties. It will still be a long struggle, but we stand to win it now. Not necessarily peacefully, but thats okay.

The nationalist parties are pawns in the driving social democrats towards neo con economic policies, the increased power of Brussels, and people being at war with each other rather than noticing and focusing on what those in real power are doing. What will happen I do not know. And I am oversimplifying, just as I think you are, if incorrectly. There are a lot of forces in play. Nationalist parties in the EU just set up for alt.right alt. left battles as have taken place in the US. A big fucking distraction from which there will come increased surveillance, increased policing, more neocon economic policies and noise over signals.

Interesting, a sociopath who saved more people from hell than any other human in history.

First, even if that were the case, no one can deny how fucked up and reptilian (not in the Icke sense) his eyes are. SEcond, I just don't see what you are claiming. But that would be great. I hope you are right, but I see very little direct accomplishment, just increased tension.

[Fixed Cross]

Isis is Obonko/Clonts creation. Trump allowed them to be destroyed.
He reversed the most Satanic US policies in history.

The jury is still out for me on what he is up to in Syria. I am not even sure he knows. Isis is also a Bush creation. The neo-cons are not just democrats.

Absoutely. Before Obolkos second term I always considered the Republicans the worst maniacs.
Then Obolko with Clont as SS broke all records of insanity.

Trumps candidacy completely took me by surprise. I loved what he was promising, and I was astonished that he immediately went about fulfilling these promises. Completely unheard of, and I can't help really liking him for it. Under 18 months in and he has shown more balls and wit in foreign policy than I would ever have expected of the US in its entire lifespan. I was always contemptuous of the sad cluelessness US leaders showed with respect to the world outside of their borders. But Trump even makes friends in Beijing. Thats .... abnormally competent.

Iran is a genocidal state sacrificing more Arabs (about which they don't care) than anyone else. Tens of millions by now, the past 100 years.

I am not fan of Iran, but the warmongers in his council, those he chose that is, are neo-cons to the bone and they do not give a shit about the arab population in Iran or anywhere else. They do not care what damage a war with Iran would cause or how many more terrorists get created by such a war. But my jury is out on what he is up to, but his choice of advisors looks pretty fucked up

This makes no sense to me. If someone is an imminent threat to you, you take him out, or do something about his capacity to threaten. You don't let him sit there for fear he may become more of a threat if you do anything about him.
Iran with an atomic bomb would truly be a fundamental problem for the coming thousands of years.
Iran has already been spending more than their GDP on terrorists, the money they got from Obolk all went into weaponry for Hezbollah and Hamas. Taking away money from them is not going to cause them to be able to pay for more terrorists. Hamas, incidentally, tells Palestinian boys that the Israeli border is open and they can just walk into Jerusalem. So they try, and get in the line of legitimate fire, as bloody meat for the antisemite press and masses. It is profoundly sickening, this Obama-Hamas axis.

I don't know if you are an ideological antisemite, but otherwise I wouldn't know what is wrong about being pro-Israel. The Jews have a tiny sliver of land for which they fought and suffered three millennia. For some, quite a lot of people actually, this is too much already. They should have nothing. I don't think so.

I appreciate you not assuming I am an anti-semite. What a world where someone can imply that I would seem to be, but at least leave the door open, and I feel grateful. It is so easy online to just state that the other person is X, when it is not the only option. Israel has supported all sorts of fucked up regimes in Africa and South America, for example. They destabilize other countries in the region and they COUPLE WITH THE NEOCONS and Saudi Arabia destablize not only the Middle East but superpower relations. Their internal policies are racist and not just against arabs but against the 'wrong kind of jews'. I don't conflate governments with the people in the countries. If you are american I would not assume you were a neo con. And Israel tries to enforce pc speech laws all over the place in the world and quite effectively.

Im from Amsterdam, by the way. You did not appear to me at all like an antisemite (the "if" was pretty strong) because you display a calm and thoughtful disposition. Antisemites are invariably jumpy morons.
Your objections to Israels politics are of a normal political order, and I do not have issue with such objections, other than that I don't find the proper weight in them to object to Israels existence. And if Israels existence is desirable, then this is the moment to affirm and defend it.

Politics is brutal, Israel is no exception. Surely its acts aren't nearly as ugly as those perpetrated by Turkey, France, England, etc, let alone the US, China and Russia, not to mention Hamas and the Palestinian Authority itself - basic "human grocery stores". (Ive been embedded with Hezbollah as a journalist. Ugliest shit Ive ever seen) Lets first turn to our own countries and see that they can compare to Israels relative prudence before we start to demand that Israel "behaves".

Israel is allowed its own capital,

It had that before.

Im talking about the Embassy move.

I figured, just pointing out the obvious.

Breaking the hypocrisy of subhuman regimes judging what another nations capital should be on account of their "morals". An end to a great nausea. Just one of the bits of sanity Trump recovered for humanity.

It did nothing to their opinions, likely hardened them.

Yes, opinions of antisemites will always "Harden", except that they were stone hard and inhuman to begin with. There isn't anything to lose for Jews vis a vis the antiseite hordes. They don't think, they don't negotiate, they only wish there were no Jews.

The only change here is that the Jews finally feel they have their old kings city back. A place in the world where they belong.
take a moment and imagine being part of a generation that sees a 3000 year old struggle resolved.
A greater arc of will isn't present in our culture. Im very excited to have been part of this fight.

Britain is already islamic. But Britain was never part of Europe, it was always trying to destroy us.

If US is the US this would be news to the neocons. Together they have wandered through the middle east destroying countries together, share policies in relation to the other superpowers, and got together happily with France to try regime change in Syria, which led to the refugee/migration crisis, the rise of Isis, making Russia more nervous than it should be and more. And Brexit also made nationalists happy in other Eu countries.

If you study the English politics vs the continent from way before the Westphalian peace, you see they never did anything that wasn't aimed at weakening this or that continental power, causing war between them, along with of course ravaging the rest of the world.

Now, if you look at the news, that news which is allowed to come out, I think it would be hard to deny that England has quite officially become an islamic regime.
It may seem unlikely, but on the other hand, its ruling castes have always have shared a resemblance with the Sultans of the Ottoman Empire, for example - it is a distinctly tyrannical, authoritarian sort of nation.
Im sure you read Chomsky, the Manufacture of Consent - look at how it went since the invention of the printing press.
It has been a freedom fearing terror-state all along. But it has always managed to shift the blame on this or that other nation, that is its main strategy.
For example how it blames its massive banking schemes on Rothschild, whose wealth and influence pales in comparison to the big Anglo families.
I think it is still vengeance for what Rothschild pulled on them after Waterloo. In any case it makes no real sense.

For the rest, Trumps win has emboldened all the nationalist and sane parties. It will still be a long struggle, but we stand to win it now. Not necessarily peacefully, but thats okay.

The nationalist parties are pawns in the driving social democrats towards neo con economic policies, the increased power of Brussels, and people being at war with each other rather than noticing and focusing on what those in real power are doing. What will happen I do not know. And I am oversimplifying, just as I think you are, if incorrectly. There are a lot of forces in play. Nationalist parties in the EU just set up for alt.right alt. left battles as have taken place in the US. A big fucking distraction from which there will come increased surveillance, increased policing, more neocon economic policies and noise over signals.

I live here, have been waging this war since I am an adult, Ive become deeply familiar with the islamic world here as well as the liberal trends which have been very powerful here since Erasmus, and Ive been the tide begin to change since Trumps victory. Sitting here, outside at a cafe drinking coffee at the corner of my street, I feel I can almost guarantee that Holland is done with the expansion of neocon and globalist agenda, simply stopped caring for it, realized life is better now than it will be if we keep changing with these fads and manias. The country has turned rigidly conservative, calm.

Interesting, a sociopath who saved more people from hell than any other human in history.

First, even if that were the case, no one can deny how fucked up and reptilian (not in the Icke sense) his eyes are. SEcond, I just don't see what you are claiming. But that would be great. I hope you are right, but I see very little direct accomplishment, just increased tension.

We look with different eyes then. Innumerable dangers have been lifted. Firstly, tensions with Russia were at the verge of a breaking point under Obolko and WWIII would have broken out if Clont had won, the Russians were nuke-drilling for it daily. A mere detail to most of Trumps adversaries apparently, for me a huge victory for mankind, the elimination of the "caliphate", going linea recta against old US policies. No more children being kneaded in ovens across the Middle East. So much suffering has stopped there, it was worse than Dantes hell. And thats just one of the many things Ive seen him resolve.

I see no evil in Trump. A lot of wicked fun, yes. No malice. And in his acts I see a bold sanity that I, as a politically extremely skeptic lover of US culture, would never have expected of a US president.