a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:41 pm

a little something different today.....

I sat down to write something, perhaps profound, probably not,
but in any case, I was sitting down and I noticed that the stock market
dropped, and dropped big. The Virus that has everyone in California in a panic,
isn't going anywhere and is dramatically increasing...

this is a case where the real world has intruded into my
philosophical speculations...…

I can't say I'm scared or worried, but I am concerned....

when I go to work later today, I will be facing customers that
are wearing mask and gloves and are panic buying things like
water and rubber gloves and toilet paper...

I rationally know that my chances of getting the virus is small and
my chance of death is really, really, really small...…..but that is intellectually,
emotionally, I am not as secure about it.. but that the thing about the emotions,
they often overwhelm our rational, logical side....and this is why we are still
animal/human instead of human, fully human.....

we still lead with our feelings/instincts about things instead of rising above
our feelings/instincts and being rational about things.....

I am a healthy man, abet an older man..... my preconditions are not
of the lungs or heart, but of the back and knees and hips.. and so, my
risk is low... and I must lead with that.. not with my emotions/feelings/instincts

I can logically think about my chances of getting the virus
and conclude even in my very public job where I deal with
hundreds of people a day, my chances are slim of getting the virus....

but what of the other matters, the stock market crash.. I can do nothing
about that.... what little I have to retire on is most likely going to take
a major hit, but I cannot do anything about that....I can only deal with
me and my reaction to current events... I cannot control the oil war currently
going on and I cannot control the stock market and I cannot control the Coronavirus...

all I have is me.... and I must respond to this very real crisis in a human
way, not with instincts or feelings or emotions, but with an understanding
of the situation at hand.... I must be rational and pause and reflect at
every action I take or don't take, as the case may be....

I must act within the possibilities for me.. I cannot influence matters
outside of my control....I don't need to panic at that... I just need to
know what I can control and what I cannot and deal with what I can control....

my wife is home sick today, just a plain old flu, took her to urgent care
last night, so I have another brick in the wall today.....but do I
need to be panic or be overwhelmed? no, I must do what I can with
what I have... nothing more is needed.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:04 pm

[quote="Peter Kropotkin"]we have in science certain idea's and one of those idea's
is the three laws of thermodynamics....

the three laws are basically laws of energy....

I don't care too much about the third law but the first two,
especially the second law is of great concern to me....

the first law states simply that there is X amount of energy in
the universe....that can never increase or decrease....energy moves,
but it doesn't increase or decrease....

we know this from Einstein when he made matter and energy
interchangeable.... they are different forms of the same thing
and so, that matter and energy can change form, from matter to
energy and back again.. but the amount of energy/matter doesn't
change...the overall amount in the universe is the exact same as it
was in the beginning of the universe and will be the exact same at
the end of the universe...…

that the second law is simply a comment about energy itself...
that energy spreads out.. and that spreading out is entropy.....
when energy is collected and used, it is in some form or another....

think of firewood....we have some wood.. it has X amount of energy.
it is matter and matter and energy is the same.....

so let us burn that firewood... the amount of matter/energy remains the same
after we burn that firewood.... we feel the change in terms of heat... that heat is
the same amount of energy as the firewood...there is no difference....

so what about entropy? Entropy is simply the leveling out of that energy.....

if we have a glass of hot water and then if nothing else happens, the
temperature of the glass water will slowly go down from hot to warm to room
temperature...that temperature drop is entropy... the dissipation of energy,
is entropy....I am old... just turned 61... old age is the action of entropy....

it is about the amount of energy I use... I cannot lift heavy things like
I used to.. that is entropy... I am weaker, not as strong, I cannot run as fast,
nor walk as long as I used to....even thou I still eat food and drink water
and I average around 5000 steps a day, the amount of energy available to me,
is lower then it used to be.....

ever buy a box of crackers and ate one and it was stale... that is
entropy... the box was sealed up and nothing impacted on the cracker
from the outside, but it was still stale... that is entropy at work....

I hate cleaning... left to me, our house wouldn't get clean....
but I have noticed that when we go on vacation, say, 2 weeks,
we might have left the house spotless, no dust, no mess of any kind,
and yet when we return home, the house was a dusty and smelled funny
and it wasn't as clean as when we left it... that is entropy.....the movement
from order to chaos.. by the dissipation of energy...…it takes energy to keep
a room clean and if we stop putting energy into cleaning a room, it will
get dirty.. that action of getting dirty is entropy...to keep a clean room requires
energy...to maintain order requires energy....

my wife and I will go out and happen to see young couples with children...
we have agreed to the fact that we don't have the energy to contain
children from being chaotic... to keep children in order, requires energy....

that is why we leave the raising of children to the young... they still have the
energy to maintain order.....

now any system to maintain itself requires energy... think of your body as
a system... if it is not feed, it will run out of energy and eventually die..
we must have energy in our system to be able to maintain it....

this is true of any system, be it natural, mechanical or biological...…

our biological system demands energy to maintain itself... as all biological
systems must have energy to survive....

now the forms of energy might be different between the systems, but
the basic idea is the same...for example, a car is a mechanical system...
it doesn't run on the same energy basis that a biological system needs....

a car requires gas to have energy... there is no difference between gas for
a car and food for a person or animal... it is the exact same thing..
energy.. it might take a different form, but it is still energy.....

remember Einstein, that matter and energy is the same thing....
gas as matter and food as matter is the same thing.. energy for
a system.....

and every thing, every thing is part of a system....
from our bodies to political systems to mechanical systems
such as cars and solar systems as our solar system is a system....

now look up system in the dictionary: a system is a set of rules,
an arrangement of things, or a group of related things that work toward
a common goal.. an example of a system are the laws and procedures of
a democratic government.. an example of a system is all the organs that work
together for digestion....

so, as we all, every single bit of matter or energy is part of a system,
then the trick is to understand systems as philosophy...…

so how is virtue, as an aspect of an system, how does virtue work?

that is a philosophical question.... what is the relationship
between virtue and any discussion of systems? how does virtue
work in regards to a political system? or how does virtue work in
regards to an economic system? we cannot take advantage of virtue
in regards to a mechanical system because virtue has no relationship
to any mechanical system such as cars... we cannot connect virtue
to mechanical systems nor can we connect virtue to our solar system..
it simply doesn't work....

but can we connect virtue to biological systems as the human body?

K: I am adding something I thought of this morning as I rush to get
ready to go to work....

the increase in Entropy is really about efficiency... my body is less
efficient as I grow older.. the cars we drive around become less
efficient as they grow old..one way to think of entropy is to
understand it as things becoming less efficient....
at some point, my body will become so inefficient that it will cease
to work, just as at some point, my car will become so inefficient
that one morning, it will fail to start and you need to get a new car.....

so entropy is the loss of efficiency in any system... we in America
see this entropy in our political systems, they have become less efficient,
there is an increase in entropy in America's political, economic, social
systems, there is a loss of efficiency in America systems...…

the only way to combat that is by an increase in energy into the various
systems....we must increase the systems energy, but how?

we can increase a system energy by putting in increasing time, money, effort
an energy...we can limit the amount of entropy in any system by becoming
more efficient and/or by putting increased time, money, effort into
said systems....

by getting more people to buy into our political, economic, social systems...
that buy in increases our political, economic, social systems efficiency with
an increase in effort put back into a system... any increase in time, money, effort
spent improves the efficiency of a system...

but what is true of large systems, is also true of small systems....
we see this is true in cars and in people.....if we put more effort into
being moral, we limit the amount of entropy in morality...and we become
more efficient....

think about it....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:30 pm

If as I have suggested, institutions and government
and society and political systems and economic
systems are feed by like a car, like a human being, then
what is this magical food/energy source?

these institutions are fed by the energy, effort,
time, money we put into these systems.....

at one time, belief in certain religious systems were prevalent in
the world... for example, certain parts of the ancient world,
believe in Apollo and Aphrodite and Ares and Zeus and Hera
were the religious icons of the Greek world....But ask yourself,
what happened to these gods and goddess?

they died from a lack of energy... they were no longer being fed
by the energy, passion, time, effort and money of the people.....
they died an entropic death from a lack of energy.....

for a belief system to maintain its coherence, it must have a certain
amount of energy going into it... without that energy going into every
system, it eventual dies... the Roman and Greek and Egyptian belief
systems all died an entropic death by losing too much energy...
not enough people believed in and support those belief systems to
allow them to survive....

belief systems like cars and people require energy to maintain itself...

government is no different, if we deprive government its energy, it
dies....if we take away our allegiance from government and take
away our energy and time, money, passion and our involvement
in government, it dies... simple as that.....

why is American government in so much trouble today?

enough people have taken their energy, time, money and effort
and put it elsewhere.....not into government, but into something else....

take the cult of trump.... that energy, time, money and effort
put into the Cult of trump has damaged America.....

I would call the cult of trump a energy vampire... it takes real energy
and effort and time and money and sinks it into something wasteful
and worthless... it takes energy away from the important matter like America
and it fuels trump/IQ45.. which is a waste of energy....because it doesn't
help our government or our society or our state or our political or economic
systems....that is where our energy, time, money, effort, should be...

we can save that in which we put our energy, time, money effort into...

so if we put our energy into democracy and freedom, that is what we can save
and promote and it becomes "the value system" by which we decide all other values...

Nazi's rose because people put their energy, time, money, passion and effort
into the Nazi's... if the people had put their effort, time, money, passion into
the government it would have survived and flourished and become the government
that people need and want...the energy you put into something helps
decides if that something lives or dies... so by participating in our capitalistic
system, by putting energy into capitalism, it survive and flourishes....
take energy away from capitalism and it dies...…..I must admit, taking
away energy from a political or economic system isn't very flashy or
dramatic or even very radical... killing a political system slowly or
a economic system slowly is the best way to go about it though....

because that slow death allows a new system to form and become
our new reality....a new reality we support by energy, time, money,
effort, passion......it is a quiet, merciful death that I want for the
tyranny of economics in America.. the full on tyranny of capitalism
and the corporation that dominates and compromises America to
the point of extinction.....

in order to save ourselves and we must, must kill capitalism...the
sooner, the better.....

one only needs eyes to see, to see what a complete and total disaster
capitalism has been to the natural world. we have driven entire
species to extinction in order to fulfill our need for wealth and material
goods......we have brought upon ourselves climate change to have
a nicer car or a bigger TV set or a slightly longer couch.....

what we have done to the environment to further our economic
system is something that future generations will hate us for...….

we have sacrificed the future to fulfill our present needs of money, profits,
material goods... and I was going to write a "dam shame" but that isn't
violent enough to condemn what have done to our one and only planet....

our greed and lust and ego have conspired to severely damage the world....

our values, our negative values has done this....

our negative values put into our political and economic
systems has done irreversible damage to the world....

one the animals are gone, we are gone.....

one might say, Kropotkin, you are being overly melodramatic...

I say, you haven't faced the truth.. you are willfully ignorant
of the plight we have put ourselves in.....

let us imagine two possible situations...
let us say, I am right... then we must do everything
we can to mitigate our current damage to the world....
if I am right, we don't have much time.....

let us say, you are right... then we aren't pressed for time...
we don't have to act right now...…

the problem is if we don't act, we are doomed...
we must act as if we don't have any more time..
not only to save planet earth, but to save ourselves.....

recall our work on systems.. that which survives is the
system in which we have put our energy, time, money,
effort and passion into...… we, ourselves, determines
which systems survive and which systems die.. by
the placement of our energy, time, money, effort
and passion.....

and that is why we must, all of us, become involved into
our systems... the more people who engage in our
political and economic systems, the more likely our
economic and political systems survive...

so, you are important, you do have choice, you can decide the fate
of the America society and the fate of the world by your decision
of which political and economic and social system you care to put
your time, money, effort and passion into...….

the average citizen becomes relevant again....
by their choice of which political and economic
and social system we choose to live by.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:38 pm

I have only a very short time before work....

I have been trying to make philosophical sense of all the world's
madness of late....

I see now that it isn't really possible at this time...…

Why?

think of it this way, it is hard to make sense of a storm when one
is in the middle of that storm...we cannot make sense of an experience
while in the middle of it.... take WW2, those 5 years, were fairly lean on
philosophy because of the war experience.... before and after, a whole lot
of philosophy was done, but not really during it...

it is very hard to make sense of an experience while in the middle of it.....

and I see this today.... I am having a hard time processing the various
shut downs and cancellations of, well everything right now.....

the immediacy of experiences prevents one from being able to
make sense of, or to be philosophical about our experiences...…
that takes time and distance from our experiences...….

this is why philosophy doesn't work during an immediate experience,
one must pass through the experience and then, and only then can
we make sense of it....

so we can only make sense of coronavirus once the dust has settled
and we can see what massive changes it has brought about to
our country and all around the world.....

I suspect this coronavirus might become one of the most important
events in human history.... it might impact us in ways that we
can't even imagine right now.... I am of the opinion that
the coronavirus is now, is far and I mean far more impactful
then 9/11 ever was...… we may see a dramatically different
US and a far different world after this virus is done...….

but let us hold judgment and understanding until after this event
has played out and then and then we can become
philosophical about the coronavirus....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:46 am

and in continuation of the latest post, the fact that we
philosophers cannot make philosophical judgments during
an event, for example, we cannot make judgements about
the Coronavirus until all is done and then and only then
can we make some judgement about what happened...…

it was the same during the second world war, philosophers could
not make any judgement about the war or the holocaust until the
events/experiences were over...…..

but that leads to a point about philosophy itself....

it requires reflection and the leisure to allow reflection
and patience to try to understand all the aspects involve.....

reflection takes time... modern society is about instant fulfillment
and philosophy cannot operate under instant fulfillment.....that is
why philosophy/philosophers take their time and make judgement about
things, months, years and even decades after the events/experiences...…



why philosophy still hasn't even come to grips with 9/11 yet..
and this virus? perhaps years will pass before we can have
a grasp about what really happened during this epoch changing
time period...

to be truly "philosophical" a person must be patient and not rush
their understanding of what an event or experiences meant..

we must take our time and fully work out what we are
exploring.... not rush into it.... even if it takes years to
fully work out, whatever we are working out.....

those who rush to judgment.. are not philosophers.....

take your time.....and philosophize at your own pace....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:18 pm

so, we have a crisis on our hands.. California has
basically shut down... not my work, but so many people
and children are at home right now... and the number
is in the millions here of people staying home....

what should be the "philosophic" response be?

why should people even turn to philosophy in this time
of crisis?

why should people engage in philosophy?

instead of say, religion or science?

how would I convince an average person that an engagement
with philosophy would be beneficial or helpful or even wanted?

I have laid out three possibilities, science, religion or philosophy.....

science is a tool, a very useful tool, but nevertheless just a tool...
science can explain the how something works, but not why something
works.. science can tell us the earth is 93 million miles from the sun,
and science can tell us that we live, planet earth, in that
zone where life can be created and exist... good stuff, but
can science tell us what does it mean that we exist and why?

we have religion that can be used to create meaning in our lives,
but religion is deterministic, which means, we don't have free choice
in religions...god created the heaven and earth, god created
heaven and hell, we have angels and demons and we have sin which
according to the Christian religion, all people have, not much choice
there....note that it doesn't leave much room for human beings when
this is god doing everything and creating everything.....

some religions are as deterministic as Christianity, but even something
Buddhism where the goal is to escape being reborn, which people have
no control over, we continue to be reborn until we become "enlightened"
and at that point, we overcome being reborn... as if being born is
such a terrible thing.. life itself is something worth escaping from...
because in this life, we suffer and the point is to escape suffering,
so what if we suffer.. that is the price of existence and a price, I for one,
am willing to pay.....

yes, religions give us why, but are they answers that offer us something
like free will or escape from determinism?

religions take responsibility out of our hands... and place it somewhere
else and that is to my mind anyway, unacceptable.....

only philosophy can offer us some answers, however, I am not sure
philosophy will offer us solace that other possible solutions might offer us....

let us explore philosophy as one possible answer... however that must
occur later as I am late for work...


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:17 pm

we have the Coronavirus, hereby called CV and we
have to create some sort of response to this CV...

what responses are possible for us?

my last post was about Philosophy and so that is where
I shall start.... Philosophy and CV.....

how do we create a philosophical response to CV?

we first of all, explore the traditional areas of philosophy....

the 5 main fields of philosophy...

Epistemology: the study of knowledge, how can we know what we know....

Metaphysics: the study of "reality" that is beyond the scientific or mathematical
realms....

Ethics: the study of moral values...

Logic: the study of right reasoning.....

Aesthetics: the study of art and beauty.....

There is no obvious point of contact between philosophy and
CV in any of these area's of study.....

perhaps let us try this, what are the various schools/branches in philosophy?

we have, in the 20th century, various schools of thought, such as phenomenology,
existentialism, logical positivism, pragmatism and linguistic turn for examples....

can we find some sort of connection between CV and these branches/schools of
thought?

right off the bat, we can eliminate certain schools, logical positivism
and linguistic turn for example doesn't apply to our question of what is
our approach to CV...…

and we can reject phenomenology as well..

so we are left with pragmatism and existentialism.....

pragmatism considers words and thought as tool and instruments
for prediction, problem solving and action and rejects the idea that
the function of thought is to describe, represent, or mirror reality.

existentialism is the tradition of philosophical enquiry which takes
as its starting point the experience of the human subject, not merely
the thinking subject, but the acting, feeling, living human being...…

it seems to me that we could combine the two... we can be
practical and problem solve with some thought about
what we need to do to be safe during this crisis.....

but we can also work out the acting, feeling, living human beings
that we are.....

The Buddha began with the notion of suffering.. we all suffer with
sickness, old age and death... but I say unto you, I don't see sickness,
old age and death as suffering... I see them as part of the human experience
and necessary parts of the human experience.....

we are biology beings... and as such, we are subject to the
trials and tribulations of biology beings... we get sick, we grow old
and we die.... that is not suffering, that is existence.....part of what
and who we are....

one such response to CV is simple, it is part of existence....
we get sick and it is part of our experiences.....that doesn't mean
we go out and get ourselves sick to experience, no, but it does mean
we don't have to become fearful or frighten by sickness...……

we have forgotten that sickness is a fundamental aspect
of existence. We will get sick in our lives.... and there is no
getting around that

the act or our being is about an equation....one of the basic definitions of
life is this: homeostasis which is the tendency toward a relatively stable
equilibrium between interdependent elements, especially as maintained by
physiological processes...our bodies balance out.. that is one working definition
of good health...out bodies have balance, balance in eating and exercise
and weight and work and play and activity and resting and intellectual thought
and physical action....the path to good health is through having balance
in our lives.....being sick throws our balance out of whack.... we are now
unbalanced... that is being sick....and to return to balance, we
must overcome our illness... we rest, we drink plenty of fluids,
we don't exert ourselves....we take whatever pills or medicine the
doctor orders and we follow their orders....

now at no point have we gone outside of the human experience....
part of human existence is to maintain balance and failing that,
we become sick.... this is not rocket science people....

the seven characteristics of life includes:

responsiveness to the environment;
growth and change;
have a metabolism and breathe;
maintain homeostasis;
being made of cells; and
passing traits onto offspring;

we simply accept the fact that we human beings will get sick.....
we simply understand that getting sick is part of the gig of
being human and biological.....

we don't have to go out of our way to become sick although
some people do in fact, go out of their way to become sick....

our current and present response to CV is simply this...
we try to avoid it as best we can

and that being sick is a part of life.. an unhappy but also
unavoidable part of life.... so what is our philosophical response to
CV?

Next post


Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:34 pm

this is the next post.....

I think that the reason we have such issues is that we take our
positions ad hoc... which is to say, we make it up... unions, um,
I think that union are good or unions are bad.... and we hold
individual, separate idea's about people, events, idea's....

instead we should hold a unified, whole complete picture
of who we are and what is out possibilities...…

so, what is your response to the CV?

If we ad hoc it, then we have a hard time trying to work it
into our philosophical understanding of the world.....

but, if we have a comprehensive overall, way of life understanding
of the world, then we can tie CV into that overall system.....

let us take an example, Epicureanism: the system of philosophy
based on the teaching of Epicurus, and the greatest good is to
seek modest pleasures in order to attain a state of tranquility,
freedom from fear (ataraxia) and absence from bodily pain (aponia)

we use Epicureanism as our way of life, as our base understanding of
the world....it is easy to then create an understanding of CV into
an already existing system...…as we try to avoid illness and avoid
passing that illness to others, so they can avoid pain, we can follow
the current recommendations of the state or the doctors.....

we only have a hard tying new ideas and thoughts into
a patchwork of idea's and thoughts and maps that we
have of the world and the universe...…

in other words, our very beliefs are a patchwork of ism's
and ideologies and habits and superstitions and prejudices
and biases...… we don't have unified, overall "way of life"
thinking about who we are and what is the world and what are
our possibilities.....

our idea's and thoughts are a patchwork of various assorted
mix of ism's and ideologies and prejudices and habits and biases and.....

Why?

because most of us have never actually worked out what we really believe in....

we still hold to the patchwork of indoctrinations that we received as children...

indoctrinations we received from the family or the state or the media or
religion or socially.....

our personal belief system is a patchwork of various mishmash of wildly different
idea' and ism's and ideologies....

there is 'no rhyme or reason' to the collection of beliefs we hold about
the world... we don't have a unified, coherent belief system about the world

we don't have a "way of life" understanding of the world...
everything is ad hoc.....

this explains the wildly diverse and often contradictory beliefs we hold
both individually and collectively.....

if you have a unified, coherent belief system which you practice
as a way of life, then it is easy to have a philosophical response to
CV or to respond to an ever changing environment or to think
about different idea's or ism's...…

the problem lies within our failure to hold to a coherent,
unified belief system which we then practice as a way of life.....

it isn't about CV being the problem, it is about how we respond to it...

you can hold to a coherent, unified belief system and still be able to
adapt to ever changing conditions that life presents to us.....

our philosophy, our history, our economics, our various responses
and understanding of the world is ad hoc... stitched together from
various sources and held together by duck tape and hope.....

this is true individually and collectively....

and how can one respond philosophically to CV when all our
understanding of the world is stitched together from various
diverse sources?

what beliefs do you hold?

are they a coherent, unified whole?
or are they stitch together from wildly diverse
sources? are your beliefs ad hoc?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:14 pm

so given my last post, what is Marxism?

an attempt to create a unified, coherent picture of
the world and our place in it.. both individually and collectively.....

and what is Socialism? an attempt to create a unified, coherent picture
of the world and our place in it.

and what is capitalism? another attempt but a failed one.... failed?

why is capitalism a failure? because the key factor in capitalism is
this idea of the "hand of god" that somehow steers the system correctly....
this hand of god, the market forces, is a "Deus ex Machina" and nothing more.....

the "hand of god" is a contrived plot twist that allows the system to
exploit and dehumanized people and their values...…

as exhibited by our current economic situation....

we have the concept of supply and demand....
thus when we have many workers, wages go down,
but when we have few workers, wages go up...
and in our current economic situation... (well before CV blew up
the economic world) wages didn't go up in the way it ought to have if
supply and demand were truly the way the system worked....

wages went up modestly when they should have gone up quite fast to
reach the supply and demand part of the American economy....

supply and demand doesn't work in regards to wages and thus supply
and demand as a theory doesn't work, and yet we still believe.....

our ad hoc belief system has a hard time keeping up with
the current situation....beliefs, once believed in, become
hard as a rock part, of our belief system......

we hold our beliefs even in the face of evidence that disproves
that particular belief...…. we are human in this way.....

and this is true of beliefs we were indoctrinated with as children....

we have a young kid who is transitioning from male to female at work...
his name is Thomas but now he wants to be called Jazz.. I am having
a very hard time making the adjustment... once I learn someone name,
I have a hard time breaking away from that name...being old means
we don't handle changes well....

but that is different then holding beliefs... Thomas or Jazz doesn't
impact my belief system...it is a temporary matter what he/she calls
themselves and I don't really care....because it doesn't impact my life

whereas holding a belief and finding that belief is wrong or misguided,
is impactful, very impactful in one's life....and potentially life changing...
whereas learning to call a person Thomas or Jazz isn't life changing for me.....

however from Thomas/Jazz viewpoint, being called the right name does
have an impact.. life changing? I couldn't say... but it is impactful....

and that is the next point, viewpoint...some people are willing to go to war
over oil or resources or ism's and ideologies but not everyone is willing to
go to war over the same thing... different viewpoints allow us to
take actions over different things.. whereas some things don't move me,
they might move you... I can't say....

but if we hold different diverse beliefs, then at times we might go to
war over something and other times we might not, depending...
our belief system being ad hoc, will often then lead to us taking
actions at different points... we might fight at one point being called
a jerk, whereas at another time, we laugh at them for calling us a jerk....

our responses to events, people, ism's and ideologies is wildly
different because we have ad hoc beliefs and ad hoc beliefs
don't remain in one place...they are every changing and moving....

and so one day, we might be moved to action and another day, we might not..
depends on our mood and that is because we don't hold to beliefs as a "way of life"....

beliefs for the modern man is simply what is convenient at the time....
not being for use yesterday or tomorrow, just useful today.....

and we cannot build a coherent, unified belief system if our beliefs only hold
true at some points but not at other points....

so what is capitalism? it is a ad hoc understanding of how the world works....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:47 pm

and now something completely different:

I was reading about Hypermodernity on Wiki and I came across
something that struck me....

Here is the first line of the thread:

"Hypermodernity (supermodernity) is a type, mode or state of society
that reflects an inversion of modernity in which the function of an object has its
reference point in the form of an object rather then function being the reference point
for form."

Now look at the opening paragraph... what is missing?
and why is the thing that is missing is the problem with
modernism and philosophy.

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:54 pm

and I at this moment reading on Wiki about modernism and
it has the exact same missing item.....

see for yourself....

then tell me, what is missing?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:00 pm

It is because of a failure to account for the transvaluation inherent in the way the object is constructed: as construed.
transcendentally, or reductivelly,

K, how are things in the market, are lines long, are people impatient and panicking? Does that make Your job any more stressful? Here in Los Angeles its like a nightmare, I can not find potatoes or rice, !
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:06 pm

these two particular articles and many more about
modern philosophy all are missing something.....

the articles don't begin with or end with people.....

they talk about objects and reference points and form
and technology and information and matter... but it doesn't begin
with the people....you hear about people second hand if at all....

and that is the problem with modern philosophy... it misses the most
important part of philosophy which is people.....

philosophy, all philosophy must begin with people and then
spread out to objects, idea's, matter, ism's and ideologies.....

modern philosophy begins with the world and then refers back
to the people and not the other way.....

even such philosophers like Hegel, spent much time talking about
such things as spirit and history and matter, but what about
people?

the less said the better, at least according to every philosophy
after Kant.... and of course there are exceptions.... and they
are know as the existentialists...….

so to paraphrase Socrates, we must return philosophy to
be about people, not idea's or forms or matter or spirit
or history.....nope, people is where we must begin our
philosophy...…..and then spread out from there....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:09 pm

Meno_ wrote:It is because of a failure to account for the transvaluation inherent in the way the object is constructed: as construed.
transcendentally, or reductivelly,

K, how are things in the market, are lines long, are people impatient and panicking? Does that make Your job any more stressful? Here in Los Angeles its like a nightmare, I can not find potatoes or rice, !



K: here near San Francisco, it is no different... long, barren shelf's and people
panicking big time.... this idea of sheltering in place... people apparently
think it means to go to the supermarket.... on the plus side, I have never,
ever had so many people thank me for going to work.... nice to be wanted....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:45 pm

In these tumultuous times, we often forget to
reconnect with who we are...…

who am I and where do I want to go?

being and becoming.....

these turbulent and rocky times shall soon pass into
night and we will still be faced with the existential
questions of existence...…….

as they say, keep your eyes on the prize....

But in light of the times, we can make some
reevaluations.....

we have been reduced to basic necessities....

Here in California, we have no place to go...
bars, restaurants, movie theaters, gyms, everything
is closed down..... the only thing that is sure to be open
are pharmacies and supermarkets....food and medicine....

we are beginning to see how we are connected to
the pyramid of Maslow..... the lowest level is about
the basics of existence.. food, water, shelter,
education and health care...……

we are reduced to existing on this bottom level of
existence..... those higher levels of esteem and love
and belonging are set to the side......put off till tomorrow...

we begin to see how we are engaged in those higher levels
of existence....with safety and love/belonging and esteem.....
they are something above the bottom level of existence....

and given the times, what do things like promotions
and titles and wealth have to do with us, given our current
situation? does having a title or that promotion, protect
one from getting the CV?

Does having that title protect one enough to leave the house?

We must ask ourselves in these times of troubles, what is
really important? To us, both individually and collectively?

We are faced with an almost unprecedented situation and what
will we learn about being human in this crisis?

It is not enough to respond to this situation but to think beyond it
and wonder what it means to be human in any situation?

what am I to do? what am I to hope for? what can we know?

the Kantian questions of existence should become our questions
of existence.....the Kropotkin questions of existence should also
be asked of ourselves....

what should we spend our energy on? what values should we hold?

as Newton and Einstein showed us, it often isn't the answers we
should be working on, but the questions we should be asking....

the greatness of Newton and Einstein was about the questions they
asked, not the answers they gave....

anyone who says, I have all the answers, is a fool...

because answers given are the answers needed at this second....
in another second, those answers are often the wrong answers.....
or they are irrelevant answers...….

answers often have the problem of being time sensitive and of the moment....

we must keep re asking the questions in hopes of asking the right question
at the right time...…..

when I was 21, I ask questions and my answers were right, at 21...
when I was 31, I asked questions and my answers were right, at 31....
when I was 41, I asked questions and my answers were right, at 41....

but those same questions and answers have no meaning, given I am now
61...…

and are the questions of my youth, appropriate given the current status
of the world?

I don't see how....

our age and experiences create a new set of questions that need to be
answered.. as I age and become a victim of entropy... I
know that I cannot become that young man of vitality and strength
that I was 20 or 30 years ago...… so, who am I now?

we spend our lives redefining who we are, given our current
situation in time... I cannot define myself as I once did when I
was 21 or 31 or even 51.....

What am I to do? what should I hope for? what can I know?
What values should I hold? what should I spend my energy on?

my answers are different today then they were 20 or 30 years ago.....

and given the crisis we are in today, are my answers any different, given
what is happening today?

What am I to do? What should I hope for? what can I know?

It seems to me, that given our tumultuous age, the answers
to those Kantian questions are, today, different then they
were say, at the beginning of the year....just 2 and a half months
ago.....

every new experience requires, demands a new accounting of
the basic questions of existence.. What am I to do?
what should I hope for? what can I know?

the answers changes every single day.....

it is not enough to set our beliefs on cruise control
and never think about it again..... no, we must engage
and reengage with the basic questions of existence
every day because every day is a new and different day.....

What am I to do? had another answer yesterday and will
have another answer tomorrow...…

but we cannot exist "ad hoc".. which is to say created to met
a particular purpose and in a particular place...
when necessary or needed....

we must somehow have an overall understanding of our existence....

and that answer lies in our using philosophy or values that are used
to have a "way of life".... in other words, we use philosophy as
a "way of life"

and in doing so, we can create an overall understanding of existence
and we can also, if need be, adapt to the changing circumstances
that we find ourselves in.....

What am I to do? if I hold to a "way of life" then I can find my
own answer to this vital question...…

what are you to do?

is your answer "ad hoc" or is your answer, part of an
overall understanding of who you are and what is your
place in the universe?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:15 pm

one of the Kantian/Kropotkin questions is:

How does one gain "inner peace"?

that they are many, many possible means of human pursuit is
clear... for example, many have suggested that the answer to the
question, What am I to do? has to do with seeking pleasure or perhaps
avoiding pain or as the Buddha suggests, trying to eliminate suffering...
or as the founding fathers suggested, seeking "happiness" whatever the
hell happiness is...

does one gain "inner peace" via these possible methods or does
one gain "inner peace" by another means?

I would suggest that finding "inner peace" by those society's goal
is a failure... for example, does a wealthy man have "inner peace"?

I have known many a wealthy person and believe me, they do not
have anything resembling "inner peace"....

I would suggest that the search for the modern ism's and ideologies
requirements of wealth and fame and titles and promotions, do
nothing for one to gain "inner peace".....

but asking to gain "inner peace" as a goal, avoids the real question
which is this, is "inner peace" really "what I am suppose to do?"

is that really what "I am supposed to do?"....

are the questions of existence really answered by seeking "inner peace?"

at this point in my life, I have contentment.. is that enough?

did I do anything extraordinary to achieve "contentment?"

no, not at all... I simply accepted that which is... I am old....
and at some point in time, sooner then later, I shall die.....
I have accepted the things that the Buddha said caused suffering,
sickness, old age and death...and by accepting them, they haunt
me no more....

did I need to search the universe to reach this level of understanding?

Nope, I simply accepted....nothing more...…

am I happy? I have no idea.... but I don't think happiness
is really what life is all about anyway.....

why am I a philosopher?

because I challenge the basic assumptions of modern America...

the search for, as our founding fathers put it, "the pursuit of life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness" isn't what should motivate us....

nor should this search for the modern "rewards" be the point...

the modern rewards one might seek is fame, wealth, titles, promotions...

But Kropotkin, if you remove or eliminate these things, what else is there?

what else should we be engaged with if not the pursuit of wealth or fame,
or titles or promotions?

the Kantian question: "What am I to do?"

try as one might, you can cannot escape this existential question of
existence.....

"what should I hope for?"

is there a god or heaven or hell or angels or sin?

no Virginia, there is no evidence of any kind that
there is a god or heaven or hell or angels or sin.....

why rely on unproven statements....

But Kropotkin, all statements are unproven....

the Kantian question: "What can we know?"

How can I know the "truth?"

what truth is, is found in our diverse and varied understanding of
the world... what "truth" there is, is different because our
viewpoints are different...… "What can I know?" is different then "what can
you know?" because we have diverse and different viewpoints...…

my truth is different then your truth...…

because my viewpoint is different then your viewpoint.....

So, What am I to do?"...….

But Kropotkin, you are offering your "truths" as the "truth"....
no, no I am not... I am simply offering you one possible truth....

But Kropotkin, you are contradicting yourself...…

good..

for the truth is only found in the contradictions of life....

Kropotkin, you make no sense.....

and so what?

life doesn't make sense... that is the real truth of existence.....

I offer up no answers... I only offer up questions.....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:15 pm

double post... apologies
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:52 pm

do we follow such people as the Buddha and Schopenhauer by
thinking that the only way to stop suffering is to end desire....

but desire, the wanting of something can't be all bad....

I desire love.. and love is one of the essential aspects of
life... without love, life isn't worth living... but I desire..
and to desire is to suffer... or is it?

I also desire knowledge.. is the pursuit of knowledge, also
the cause of suffering?

some knowledge is, in part, going to cause suffering...

the one I love, loves another.. that knowledge will cause
suffering...….

but not all knowledge causes suffering....

I can "know" things and not face suffering....

the knowledge of my impending death can cause suffering..
but it can also cause contentment because I cannot under
any circumstances, stop my impeding death... I must, must,
accept my impeding death, be it one year from now or 30 years from now....

I don't believe that suffering is caused by desire... it depends upon what
is desired and what is the knowledge gained....

I believe the desire for wisdom, although it may cause, may cause,
suffering, in the end, the wisdom we gain outweighs any suffering we might face....

desire is a tool.. and just like any other tool, how you use it, will decide
upon the amount of "suffering" one faces when using that tool....

logic is also a tool as is math as is any discipline as history or economics
or philosophy or political science.... its use will determine its fate....
and our suffering.....

does desire cause suffering?

it depends upon what you desire and how
you what means you use to gain that desire....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:36 pm

as I work in a grocery store, my hours got crazy busy,
I shall be back in a few days, maybe mid-week...

Kropokin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby derleydoo » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:47 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:as I work in a grocery store, my hours got crazy busy,
I shall be back in a few days, maybe mid-week...

Kropokin


:text-bravo: :text-thankyouyellow:

Heroes, one and all! [-o<
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:45 am

derleydoo wrote:
Peter Kropotkin wrote:as I work in a grocery store, my hours got crazy busy,
I shall be back in a few days, maybe mid-week...

Kropokin


:text-bravo: :text-thankyouyellow:

Heroes, one and all! [-o<



K: thank from your very tired friend....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:35 pm

I am back earlier then I thought because of an illness...
I was really hot and was sweating at work and my breathing
became difficult and those are classic CV symptoms... so immediately left work...
I saw my doctor and she sent me to the hospital for test...it turned out to
be an infection..for which I am taking antibiotics.. but nothing serious like CV...

but I have a couple of days off and.. here I am....

Voltaire once wrote in his Dictionaire Philosophique:

"Everything is governed by immutable laws... everything is prearranged....
everything is necessary effect...."

this type of thinking is Newtonian.. classic thinking of the universe
as being a watch and god is a watchmaker....

and even Einstein believed in this type of universe... "God do not play
dice with the universe" or the universe isn't ruled by chance..
and yet, modern science, from the theories of evolution to
quantum mechanics suggest that the universe is ruled by
nothing more then "the toss of the dice"....evolution
has as it basis, probability/chance...…..

how do we reconcile the idea that the universe has laws,
basic laws which cannot be violated, Gravity for example
and still have a probabilistic universe?

This is the basic scientific question of our time....
how do we reconcile a watchmaker universe with
a universe that is probabilistic?

let us take entropy for example.....

entropy is a basic fact of the universe.. but entropy is a law, yes,
but it is random in its actions....we cannot escape entropy but
we cannot predict or know in what fashion entropy will work...
we can of course know how entropy works when we drop ice into
a warm glass of water... that is basic entropy at work....

but let us take the entropy in our bodies... that is random...
the way I age is the function of several diverse actions...
both from my actions, eating or exercising properly and from
outside sources like air pollution and the type of work I do....
and from my inner, bodily functions like the way my cells
operate which is independent of my voluntary actions and
the outside sources like pollution...…

I cannot predict how my body will engage in entropy, which is
to say, how my body will age....I look very young for being 61...
and yet my inner "body" has some issues.. bad back, bad knees,
bad hips... I am clearly aging.. or engaging in entropy as it were....

I cannot predict how my body will function in a year or two...
I can tell you it will be worse or rather said, it will become
more entropic.. going from order to disorder...…

and at some point, it will become so disordered, I will die...

but how do we reconcile the human entropy with the universal
laws of gravity?

remember, even a watch suffers from entropy.. going from order
to disorder.. just very slowly....and that is another little brick in the
wall.... the rate of entropy is different for different bodies, be it
biological or mechanical or natural...… biological being human bodies,
mechanical being cars and natural being the solar system....

so let us take the current crisis as a study in entropy.....

we have ordered systems, be it economic or political or
social.. what the virus has done is slow down the or stopped
the amount of order within those systems.... when the
medical system is overwhelmed as it is right now,
it moves from being ordered to disordered....when the
economic system that the right wing loves so much, becomes
disordered by everything shutting down, then the system
becomes disordered.....

we can see entropy at work in the world today when
various systems become disordered from the effects
of the CV....

that is entropy... when a system goes from ordered to disordered....

it will take energy.. in the form of actual energy, to types of energy
which is time, money, effort, and the participation of people to
reengage, to take a disordered system/systems and move them to order....

and so once again, how do we connect the universal laws of
such theories as gravity to entropy?

one might suggest that even such theories as gravity isn't immune
to disorder and entropy.... perhaps gravity itself is slowly
and slowly enough for us not to be able to measure it, perhaps gravity
itself is engaged in entropy... it slowly grows less... perhaps we have less
gravity now then we did a million years ago.. in which case, at some point,
because we don't have the knowhow or technology to repair it,
gravity itself becomes disordered.. and becomes more chaotic....

we might have less gravity and thus the laws of the universe might not
be universal and constant.. they too suffer from entropy.. the movement from
order to disorder..in which case the universe itself will some day simply
die from too much disorder... just as our bodies eventually die from
the transition from order to disorder...…

I have heard scientist talk about the end of the universe in which
the atoms, the very atoms themselves no longer bond because of
disorder and that is the end of the universe...… when the universe
can no longer have enough order to maintain itself in a cohesive manner,
that is the universe itself becomes disordered, entropy will one day
win out and rule the universe....

so the very laws we see as universal and unchangeable are really just
at a temporary state of seeming to be universal...…...we just aren't
able to detect or measure the rate of entropy in the universe yet.....

and according to science, it doesn't exists if it can't be timed, measure,
weighed, or scanned...…….but how do we time or measure or weigh
or scanned a process that is always in process or happening?

every single system in the universe has a different rate of entropy...
a different rate of disorder going on within that system....

my rate of decay or disordered into old age is different then your rate
of disorder and decay..... we cannot time or measure or weigh that....

so the problem still stands... how do we reconcile the different rates
of disorder and decay in the different systems?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Meno_ » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:25 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:I am back earlier then I thought because of an illness...
I was really hot and was sweating at work and my breathing
became difficult and those are classic CV symptoms... so immediately left work...
I saw my doctor and she sent me to the hospital for test...it turned out to
be an infection..for which I am taking antibiotics.. but nothing serious like CV...

but I have a couple of days off and.. here I am....

Voltaire once wrote in his Dictionaire Philosophique:

"Everything is governed by immutable laws... everything is prearranged....
everything is necessary effect...."

this type of thinking is Newtonian.. classic thinking of the universe
as being a watch and god is a watchmaker....

and even Einstein believed in this type of universe... "God do not play
dice with the universe" or the universe isn't ruled by chance..
and yet, modern science, from the theories of evolution to
quantum mechanics suggest that the universe is ruled by
nothing more then "the toss of the dice"....evolution
has as it basis, probability/chance...…..

how do we reconcile the idea that the universe has laws,
basic laws which cannot be violated, Gravity for example
and still have a probabilistic universe?

This is the basic scientific question of our time....
how do we reconcile a watchmaker universe with
a universe that is probabilistic?

let us take entropy for example.....

entropy is a basic fact of the universe.. but entropy is a law, yes,
but it is random in its actions....we cannot escape entropy but
we cannot predict or know in what fashion entropy will work...
we can of course know how entropy works when we drop ice into
a warm glass of water... that is basic entropy at work....

but let us take the entropy in our bodies... that is random...
the way I age is the function of several diverse actions...
both from my actions, eating or exercising properly and from
outside sources like air pollution and the type of work I do....
and from my inner, bodily functions like the way my cells
operate which is independent of my voluntary actions and
the outside sources like pollution...…

I cannot predict how my body will engage in entropy, which is
to say, how my body will age....I look very young for being 61...
and yet my inner "body" has some issues.. bad back, bad knees,
bad hips... I am clearly aging.. or engaging in entropy as it were....

I cannot predict how my body will function in a year or two...
I can tell you it will be worse or rather said, it will become
more entropic.. going from order to disorder...…

and at some point, it will become so disordered, I will die...

but how do we reconcile the human entropy with the universal
laws of gravity?

remember, even a watch suffers from entropy.. going from order
to disorder.. just very slowly....and that is another little brick in the
wall.... the rate of entropy is different for different bodies, be it
biological or mechanical or natural...… biological being human bodies,
mechanical being cars and natural being the solar system....

so let us take the current crisis as a study in entropy.....

we have ordered systems, be it economic or political or
social.. what the virus has done is slow down the or stopped
the amount of order within those systems.... when the
medical system is overwhelmed as it is right now,
it moves from being ordered to disordered....when the
economic system that the right wing loves so much, becomes
disordered by everything shutting down, then the system
becomes disordered.....

we can see entropy at work in the world today when
various systems become disordered from the effects
of the CV....

that is entropy... when a system goes from ordered to disordered....

it will take energy.. in the form of actual energy, to types of energy
which is time, money, effort, and the participation of people to
reengage, to take a disordered system/systems and move them to order....

and so once again, how do we connect the universal laws of
such theories as gravity to entropy?

one might suggest that even such theories as gravity isn't immune
to disorder and entropy.... perhaps gravity itself is slowly
and slowly enough for us not to be able to measure it, perhaps gravity
itself is engaged in entropy... it slowly grows less... perhaps we have less
gravity now then we did a million years ago.. in which case, at some point,
because we don't have the knowhow or technology to repair it,
gravity itself becomes disordered.. and becomes more chaotic....

we might have less gravity and thus the laws of the universe might not
be universal and constant.. they too suffer from entropy.. the movement from
order to disorder..in which case the universe itself will some day simply
die from too much disorder... just as our bodies eventually die from
the transition from order to disorder...…

I have heard scientist talk about the end of the universe in which
the atoms, the very atoms themselves no longer bond because of
disorder and that is the end of the universe...… when the universe
can no longer have enough order to maintain itself in a cohesive manner,
that is the universe itself becomes disordered, entropy will one day
win out and rule the universe....

so the very laws we see as universal and unchangeable are really just
at a temporary state of seeming to be universal...…...we just aren't
able to detect or measure the rate of entropy in the universe yet.....

and according to science, it doesn't exists if it can't be timed, measure,
weighed, or scanned...…….but how do we time or measure or weigh
or scanned a process that is always in process or happening?

every single system in the universe has a different rate of entropy...
a different rate of disorder going on within that system....

my rate of decay or disordered into old age is different then your rate
of disorder and decay..... we cannot time or measure or weigh that....

so the problem still stands... how do we reconcile the different rates
of disorder and decay in the different systems?

Kropotkin



Hi. Mr. K here is something gravitation that might ignite a connection of Newton with a metaphors of Einstein:



Oh Gravity,
Take me with you
Void me of all emotions
Oh Gravity,
Let me free
Detach me from these strings
Break the chains that bind me
Oh Gravity,
Help me forget
Give me a moment of peace
Oh Gravity,
Devour the melancholy in me
Drown me in your emptiness
Oh Gravity,
Put out the fire in me
Erase the darkness within me
Pull me away from these shadows into the world of light
Oh Gravity,
Let me sink
Let me disappear
Oh Gravity,
Take me away from here...


Post script: my first job in LA was a bagger in Safeway, then during the union strike, I became a butcher trends -. Could not stand the cold! But I stuck with it until the strike was over.
Meno_
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:51 pm

let us say I am familiar with Safeway.. down south
it is called Vons..... and leave it at that....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:29 pm

it is our rate of understanding of entropy that also changes....

when I was younger, say 40, I could tell I couldn't do the things I did
when I was 19 or 20...but it didn't dawn on me that that was entropy or
as we humans call it, old age. Now that I am 61, it is quite clear
I am well in the midst of entropy or old age....

my understanding of who I am/was and what my place is/was,
has changed as I have gotten older.....

if I try to explain to a 20 year old, what it means to get old,
they would have no idea because they don't have the
experiences or knowledge to understand me...

but if I explain what is love or what is some bodily need, they
would understand because it is something they have knowledge
of or have experienced themselves....

to most people, what I write is gobbledygook because what I write
is outside of their knowledge or experience...I seem to be really dumb
or quite obscure because what I write doesn't fit into most people experiences
or knowledge ……. but no matter how I try to reduce it or bring it down to
earth, until they experience it, people will never get what I am trying to say...
and that is ok...…

my knowledge and experiences are just that, mine...
and I don't need or require that you understand that knowledge
or experience....just as you don't need me to understand your
knowledge or experience...

but I can get you to reexamine and reevaluate what you believe in
and what you take to be "your" values and biases and superstitions
and prejudices and indoctrinations...…..are your values and understanding
of the world really "yours" or do you hold those indoctrinated values of
childhood given to you by your family and the state and the media and
the church?

that is really the choice I am giving you....what are your values
and are they really your values or have you simply carried on
those childhood indoctrinations?

a good, a really good example of someone who has never examined
their values is IQ45.... he still lives by and understands the world by
his childhood indoctrinations....indoctrinations of family and state
and church and social groups and society...….

I began my reexamination of my values because of the contradictions
I discovered between what I was told and what I found out about the world
was..... I found that my indoctrinations of childhood and my experiences
of the world were different....and by examining my own values, I could
reconcile those contradictions between the theory of my indoctrinations
and the reality of my life...… I fashioned my understanding of the world,
based on my experiences of the world instead of the indoctrinations
I received as a child.....

I reexamined my values given to me as a child and found them wanting.....
those values were unable to offer me an understanding of the world
that matched what I found on the ground, in reality....

and so I had to adjust my values to match the experiences
and reality of what I found.....

I was told about god, but in my experiences, I found
I had no need for god... the belief in god didn't help me
with understanding my own possibilities or my reality....

it interfered with it and so I became an Atheist because it
better matched my experiences and understanding of the world...

I adapted my values to match what I experienced and saw in the world...

the disconnect people feel in the world is because their childhood
indoctrinations don't match the reality, the experience they find
in the world.....the disconnect is between their childhood indoctrinations
and the reality on the ground.... but they don't reexamine their values
because that forces them to admit that, possibly, their understanding
of the world is wrong.... and we hate to admit we are wrong....
that is human nature....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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