a new understanding of today, time and space.

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:12 pm

America is guilty of a crime and you, you my friend
are also guilty of that same crime...…..

America and you, are guilty of dishonesty and fraud
and being sanctimonious and engaging in hypocrisy.....

The actual crime being committed is bad faith...…

You proclaim your allegiance to certain values,
values that represent America... or so you say...…

and yet you either engage in actions that are not representative
of what it means to be an American or you commit the equally grave
crime of inaction...........

Perhaps this is what is mean by "modern"....
to engage in hypocrisy by action or inaction......

The American lie that all life is sacred is put to
the test when the budget, which is a moral document,
reduces the social net that keeps people alive. When
you reduce benefits to seniors, like my mother who monthly
faces the choice of either eating or getting life saving medicine...
or the parent who is face with feeding their children or paying medical bills....

As long as we practice the American nihilism of putting money before lives,
we are engaging in hypocrisy when we proclaim ourselves a "Christian" nation
and we don't practice what we preach.....

When we seprate children from their families for the "crime" of being illegal,
that is not "Christian" nor does it fall under the declaration of independence
where

"All men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator
with certain inalienable Rights, that among these rights are life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness"

We failed to practice our basic principles if we pick and choose who
we are going support or who we attack...….

Holding certain beliefs mean we must engage in those beliefs
both in practice and in theory.....

I have accused you of grave crimes and most of you will simply pretend
it doesn't mean you... because hay, we always assume ourselves to be innocent
of any crimes because we are perfect, we are certain, we are American's...….

How can we commit a crime if we are Christians because Christians
are always saved and doesn't being saved mean you are not longer guilty of
any crime. You can't accuse American's of engaging in hypocrisy because
we have the documents we profess our allegiance to, the declaration
and the constitution.... we are saved because we profess our belief in
those documents.... but we practice bad faith because we don't act upon
those documents, act upon them as if they are real, functional truths,
about what is our principles...…..At best, we offer lip service to the American
ideals of "truth, justice and the American way of life" or the concept that
"all men are created equal"...………………….

If you are silent about the hypocrisy of America and if you are silent
about the crimes committed against American's because they hold different
beliefs, then you are guilty...…

But no, most people reading this won't take this seriously...…
but why? because we think of ourselves as incapably of
committing crimes and yet, we do so all the time...…

Hypocrite.... your crimes of hypocrisy and bad faith is
clear as day... and yet, you refuse to see, refuse to engage
with your bad faith... what me? Nah, I am as clear as a window
in my engagement with my principles...

liar.... liar.... liar...….


You can no longer sit on the sidelines and pretend you are innocent,
pure as snow...… your silence convicts you of crimes against humanity....
crimes of bad faith... crimes of complicity with the forces that negate
human beings and their values... you are guilty of practicing nihilism when
you negate human beings and their values...…..

Nah, I am innocent of any crimes.... because I have never given it a minute
thought if I am guilty of hypocrisy and bad faith...…. and that is your only
defense... I have never given it a moments thought.....

don't treat your principles and beliefs like you do philosophy.....
as if it doesn't engage with or have anything to do with yourself....
my philosophy is simply an engagement with sterile and abstract
thought that doesn't commit me to anything in the real world...
it is simply mental masturbation..... and that is how people here
on ILP engage with philosophy... not with any real intent to practice
what they engage with in their interest in philosophy...…
philosophy is simply something someone does to pass the time,
not really to engage with or practice as a real thing...…

bad faith is about the false engagement with philosophy with
no intention to actually change one's beliefs or actions...…

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:35 pm

If you chanted, LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP....

you are not a "Christian"...for one of the guiding principles
of "Christianity" is forgiveness..... and if you chant "LOCK HER UP"
you are not engaging in forgiveness or any other "Christian" practice.....
You are not engage with forgiveness or love or charity... all "Christian"
principles or beliefs...……….

that is what I mean by practicing what we preach...…. if we preach
Christian idea's, we must practice Christian ideals and if we preach
American ideals, then we must practice American ideals...….

and you might ask, legitimately I might add, what are "American"
ideals?......and therein lies the problem..... we can say without
any fear of contradiction, that we have no idea what American
ideals really are...…...

so what are your values, your principles, your beliefs?

and what do you practice that is in support of your values, your principles,
your beliefs?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:20 pm

let us rethink, reevaluate philosophy as we know it...…

Let us understand philosophical works as, as spiritual documents...

So let us take Descartes method, not as an quest for knowledge but
as a spiritual document...…

Descartes doesn't unify man, he separates him into body and mind.....
as a document to live by, Descartes book, "Discourse on method"
tells one how to achieve certainty, but doesn't tell one how to
engage in life....I think therefor I am.... isn't a spiritual message,
it is a knowledge understanding.....and what of Spinoza, "Ethics"...
is that a "spiritual" book, no.... it too instructs us in certainty
and doesn't tell us how to engage in life....and Hume and Kant
and Hegel, they are instruction manuals about philosophy, not
in how to live.. modern philosophy of about "what to know"
and not "what to be".... What you should know is the rational,
philosophical things you should know to be a philosopher,
but the real quest of philosophy is "what to be"...…
what shall I believe in and what shall I practice?

that is the true statement of philosophy...….

what is to be our engagement in our lives and in our society's life?

In what beliefs should we have and how do we practice our beliefs is the
real engagement in philosophy...…..

What values are we to hold and how do we practice those values... is just
another way of saying "how do we practice our beliefs"

How is Nietzsche for example, to be read as a spiritual document?

How is Hegel or Foucault or Heidegger to be read as spiritual documents?

One might ask, what does it mean "spiritual documents"?
and by doubt, you can achieve wisdom.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:22 pm

ask someone of the MAGA crowd about why they favor IQ45
and quite often they will say, it pisses off the "libtards".
That is an rather astonishing statement. If you mean it,
and conservatives seem to lead with their anger and hate
and fear and greed, it means the entire concept of MAGA,
Make America Great Again, is a entirely false objective.....

For the entire reason for MAGA is to make America "Great"
(and we will for the moment, not ask how America is not great or
how IQ45 particular course of actions will make America great again)

No, we will point out that if, if the entire point of the exercise, of electing
people just to piss of "libtards", then we are not dealing with making
America great again, no, we are dealing with the right's anger
and fear against the left. The hatred of the left is so great that
the entire point of electing IQ45 is to piss off the left, but that
has nothing to do with making America great again....

a fairly good argument can be made that it was liberalism
that made America great. For the operating ism of the United States during
the years of greatness, from 1945 to 1980, were years of liberal beliefs
and actions.... the one blemish on those years, Nixon's Watergate which of
was driven by Republicans. Starting with the election of the conservative's
darling, Raygun, in 1980, we begin to see cracks in America's greatness. We have
the Iran-contra debacle which was run out of the White house, the Vice-president
office, in 1986, by the recently deceased Bush Sr, a Republican.

We have in 1992 a fairly conservative democrat, Clinton, still following
a mild, tamed down Liberalism. His blemish was the Lewensky affair
(and if have to impeach him for that, then you must impeach IQ45 for
the far more serious crime of federal election laws, you cannot engage in
selective enforcement of the law, for that is not justice, which is equality,
but that is the beauty of being conservative, you just cherry pick your beliefs
and their enforcement )
but then after Clinton, we have Bush Jr. (who is looking better every day)
and his crimes were about the full frontal attack upon the rights of every single
American.....and then Obama, who was a far more conservative president then
Clinton, in fact, I would say that Obama was right of center, not even center
of the profile, but right of...……

But we have conservatives who will defend the election of IQ45 as
being about pissing off "libertards"....but what exactly has IQ45 done
or accomplished? You can only point to one thing, the massive
tax give away to the wealthy and corporations. That was his only
accomplishment in the last two years, even with a GOP house, a
GOP senate, a GOP supreme court..... and yet, yet, we are expected
to make America great with zero accomplishments? I don't see how
we can make America great given the complete failure of the conservative
agenda which is clear in its welfare for the rich program as its only
accomplishment. Virtually every other thing IQ45 has done has
been by executive order. He has been doing the agenda of the
wealthy and the corporations by making profits, the pursuit of
money as the primary goal of the political agenda. The pursuit
of profits, as I have noted is nihilism and if you support it,
you are also engaged in the pursuit of nihilism.....
which is the negation of human beings and their values....
To support the conservative agenda is the pursuit of nihilism...
and that is the real point of my topic today.... conservative values
are nihilistic values because they negate human beings and their
values..... And it is quite clear if one looks at the political
actions of the GOP over the last 40 years, since 1980, that
the goal of the GOP has been the negation of human beings
and their values.... for example, we have the attack upon
the freedom of women to choose what happens to their bodies,
which is under attack by the GOP... taking away freedoms
is a negation of values and that is the GOP agenda,
taking away freedoms......The GOP is trying to take
away the freedom of voting, as exhibited by voter suppression
laws in many states and taking away democracy as exhibited
in states like Wis and NC. in which the GOP is trying to
suppress democracy after losing the 2018 elections...

It is clear that the GOP is anti-democratic.....
look at their actions and yet, yet, people still
still support them because it "pisses of the Libtards"

yes, support anti-democratic policies because if pisses
of liberals but perhaps should engage not in just
"pissing off libtards" but engage in some concern
about what will actually make America great again...

which is a strong dose of liberalism in public policy
and public actions..... because that is how America
became great the first time.. before American values was destroyed
by conservative Icons like Raygun………

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:32 pm

As I sit here, just thinking... and how many people do that?

I am thinking about my relationship with philosophy.
I have been reading philosophy for over 40 years... looking, seeking,
searching and for what? I don't know, perhaps I may never know.....

I am thinking about philosophy and using philosophy as a way of life...…

But as I think about my engagement with philosophy, I remember my past
readings of philosophy... I began with the Greeks and Romans......of ancient
philosophy, the schools of philosophy... of Stoicism and Epicureanism and
Platonism and Aristotelianism...…. As I read them, they did not engage with
me, with who I am.....They were cold and sterile, at least to me and I
did not find a home in ancient philosophy...…

So I recalled my readings in medieval philosophy... and they left me even colder.....
The medieval philosophers left me cold because they engage in a topic in which
I could find no respite from life...….

I recalled my readings from the Renaissance writers and they too didn't engage
with my heart.... The Renaissance writers were about rediscovery, they were
at heart, Librarians.....and that left me cold...……

Next came the enlightenment writers.... and for the first time, I was engaged....
They at least were about trying to find a new path, an individual path,
a path that didn't depend upon the old authorities like the bible or Aristotle
for guidance.....
But in the end, the enlightenment writers seemed, at least to me, unfinished,
incomplete.....they hadn't finished their studies and then, I reached the German
idealism that I am now engaged with.... and after two months of study,
I am left cold by them...…..I have read them and my heart is left as cold
as my head...…. I cannot engage with them as we don't talk about the same
things...…..

As I have stated, I have read philosophy for over 40 years and although I haven't
reached them in my studies yet, I have extensively read Kierkegaard and Nietzsche....
I have almost all their books and have most of what they have written......of
what I have read of "modern" philosophy, most of it leaves me cold, but not
Kierkegaard or Nietzsche...….I have "engaged" with both over many years
and I shall do so again, shortly....

What do I demand from philosophy?

I demand engagement with philosophy with both my head and my heart.
Philosophy has to engage in the past, present and the future.
For philosophy to engage with me on a personal level, as a way of life,
it must engage with me on a very personal level.

Kierkegaard once wrote this

"What I really need to get clear about is, what I must do,
not what I must know, except insofar as knowledge must precede
every act. What matters is to find purpose, to see what it really is
that God wills that I shall do; the crucial thing is to find a truth
which is truth for me, to find the idea for which I am willing to
live and die"

Remove the word god and this could be me...……

I sit here, all alone in my condo, wife and daughter have gone to work...
I sit here with my headphones on listening to music, as I do at every chance I get....
As I listen, I attempt to hold a conversation with my soul...……
In a crowded room, where every one congregates in the middle, you will
find me by the wall, headphones on, listening to music...…
In fact, I suspect if you ask people to give one image of me, they
will say that I keep to myself and isolate myself, either with headphones or
with a book...…...And yet, and yet, I try to engage with myself in what
I am to do, even in my old age, I am still trying to find my "purpose"...…

one might say, Kropotkin, you are full of contradictions..... yes,
a thousand times, yes.... but to say I am full of contradictions is
to say, Kropotkin... you are human... yes......

Perhaps I have confessed too much, perhaps I haven't confessed enough...
for all of writing, all of philosophy is a confession of the soul....

my philosophers of choice is a confession...…. I am a man....
the person I most resemble is Goethe... not in talent, for I will
never have that kind of talent, but in the reserve I show people
and yet my inner soul is in torment.... I contain my emotionalism
under a cold exterior...…. I laugh and cry and fall in love, in silence,
out of sight of other people...…… I watch a movie the other day,
and I cried, but silently, inside of myself...………..

How can I find a philosopher or philosophy that engages me on
several levels, mentally, emotionally, psychologically...…

and so I keep looking...……..

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:10 pm

As I read Hadot, I am beginning to wonder if, as he claims,
that Philosophy itself is a spiritual exercise!...…

This notion intrigues me.....Is not the point of spiritual exercises to
allow one to rise to the level of becoming acceptable to god.....

Let us secularize this and make the goal of philosophical spiritual
exercises to become the best possible human being one can become....
It has nothing to do with god or heaven or hell or Satan, but with
one becoming who they are...…..isn't that the philosophical goal!

Not only to understand but to remake one into a better person...
As Marx once stated, it is not enough to understand the world,
one must remake it...….

so let us put this into context.....

You are born into a world with already preset ism's and ideologies
biases and prejudices and habits and superstitions...
You are indoctrinated into those ism's and biases by family,
society, media, church, state.....

You grow up in those indoctrinations.. then at one point in time,
whatever age, you learn that those indoctrinations are not or do
not adequately explain what you are seeing on the ground...
they are contradictions, discrepancies, incongruities, anomalies,
that are not explained or understood by your indoctrinations...

What are you to do?

For most people, they sweep it under the rug, just write it off.
For some, the anomalies are enough to get one to reexamine,
reevaluate one's indoctrinations... they become thinkers, philosophers....

for example, we have been lead to believe that capitalism is the
"greatest" economic theory ever, and yet, capitalism is flawed,
severely flawed to the point where it has threatened to
destroy everything it touches...including America...…
The rhetoric of the greatness of capitalism is denied by the
anomalies that capitalism creates. The massive poverty it creates,
the wonton destruction of the earth to the point of massive
extinction of plants/animals/species is in progress....
we have pollution and global warming which is the "cost"
of capitalism and I as well as many others, believe to be
to high a cost to pay for the 1% to enjoy the good life.....

The problem of capitalism, the system of choice, is that
there is no other choice besides capitalism....capitalism
doesn't allow any other choices, you cannot exists within
the capitalistic system without making the pursuit of
profits/money as your primary goal and that pursuit is
what is damaging and destroying the earth and, AND
our souls...….

And this is the point of thinking about philosophy as being
a spiritual exercise.... At no point must we or should we
reference god or any other metaphysical concept, we don't have
to, we can use philosophy as a spiritual concept without any recourse
to metaphysical concepts.....

Philosophy as a spiritual exercise means we use philosophy
as a tool of diagnosis of our "illness" and as a tool to
find our means to the path of recovery from our "illness"....

By philosophy, we understand the failure of capitalism
and by philosophy we then find another economic system
that is not so destructive to either our planet or to us...…

We make choices based on our philosophical understanding of
what it means to hold a capitalistic system opposed to
a non-capitalistic system or some combination therein....

In other words, we shall follow the ideal of the French revolution
and instead of falling into our choices, we make our choices,
we create our future instead of just accepting whatever comes
around..... we actively participate in the creation of our future,
which is quite a change of pace from what has actually occurred
over the course of human existence......We have said "god wills it"
or "historical materialism wills it" which is the same thing and
then we just simply accept without comment or reaction to this
rather passive accepting of our fate.....I want an active, not reaction,
to the events and actions of our time... and the organ of our understanding
of the events and actions of our time is or will be, philosophy...…

Instead of being passive in our future, we engage with and
create our future...we engage in creating our own future
and philosophy as both a branch of rational thought and
as a spiritual exercise is a means of doing this...…

we become "enlighten", to become better people, which
in turn allows us to bring about a better future.....

You want a better future? you must work at it, you must
become the person you want to be and that takes
effort and work and that work is philosophy.....

To become who you are...…. that just doesn't just happen
overnight...…..we have the template of becoming...
we just have to have the courage of practicing what we preach.....

How will you become?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:44 pm

I am listening to music, as is my wont,
and right now I am listening to a full orchestra playing
Canon in D Major by Pachelbel……...and I wonder
at the genius of the person who stripped down the canon
into just piano and violin or even just the piano.....

To take the richness of that piece and by stripping it down, to
give it even more beauty, more power...….


Life has an existential property that most people won't acknowledge.....
life has an existential aspect that is hard to understand, little less to explain....

Many have attributed to life the question of its being.....
Is life "being" made up of suffering as the Buddha said, or is life
the philosophical preparing for death as the main thing or is life the pursuit
of "truth" whatever that is or the pursuit of wisdom or perhaps something
else all together....

The very fact that after thousand of years, we still don't know, leads us
to wonder if the question is even the right question.....

Now one particular theme of life's being has been stated over and over,
and it goes like this...…..It is better not to have been born then to be born....
or as the noted philosopher C-3PO said, it is our lot to suffer...
thus meaning it is better not to have been born at all....

And after 40 years of thinking about this point, I still can't tell...…..

In reading Plato's apology, at the end where Socrates says to Critio,

"Crito, we owe a cock to Asclepius. Please don't forget to pay the debt"

And Asclepius was the god of medicine and thus Socrates was asking
Crito to pay the debt for being healed from some illness...…

Now a rather common interpretation is that Socrates was implying
that life is an illness and death is some sort of cure and he wanted
to thank Asclepius for being "cured" with his death.....

That being was an illness and the only cure was death...…..

and it certainly does seem sometimes that we suffer and that
our time on earth is full of pain and misery and horror and all the
other words to describe our days on earth...…

I cannot deny that we suffer and that I personally have suffered....
I was born handicap and have had my fair share of suffering
and misery...…… and the existential question is rather simple,
does our life, such as it is, worth all that pain and suffering and misery?

One can see the point of those who claim that it is better not to have been
born then to be born.... and one can see the point of life is to prepare for
the inevitable death that is sure to come.... and death with dignity is simply
a false idea... there is no death with dignity, in the end, we drool on ourselves
and then unload a pile of shit..... and it is over... our last act of being human
is dropping a load of shit..... and that seems to me to be very appropriate
final act of life.....

and in all of this sound and fury, signifying nothing, what can we find that
will make all this effort worth our while?

We can claim that life is worth the effort because of friends, family, country,
faith, fame, materialism, or any number of combinations of those factors that
we have listed or might list...……

And each of these factors has had their defenders, faith and country and
nationalism or some very narrow factors like being white or being a man.....

What has given our life meaning and purpose has been fought over
since time began and that battle surely will not end because of anything
I have written....

If life is not an illness that only ends with the cure of death, then
what is this thing we call life?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:20 pm

We hear of philosophy and religion whose goal is to create
peace of mind and serenity and tranquility...….. especially
in philosophy...….. we are suppose to use philosophy to gain
that serenity and peace of mind...…. in the same way that
the Buddha tried to create a peace of mind by making people
aware of their desires which is the cause of suffering....
we suffer because we cannot achieve what our desires demand....
by removing desires, we no longer chase after the empty
and unfulfilling objects of our desires...…..and that eliminates
suffering.....

Or said another way, we are addicted to our various objects of
desire, we are addicted to our materalism, we are addicted to
our need for more and more and more in our life...........

to achieve peace, we must eliminate the desire for those
things like materialism and sex and drink and food and fame and money,
that we pursue and crave.........

It is kinda an all or nothing thing.... this demand for peace and serenity...
to achieve it, you must give up all you desire....then, then you can
achieve tranquillity and serenity.......

But I offer up a different solution...... We can say yes to materialism
and to lust and to greed and to desire........ if, if we find a balance in
our lives..... a place where we can naturally act upon our desires without
turning that desire into suffering by having balance in our lives.....
that there is a place for desire cannot be doubted, but we also must
be able to say no...….when the time is right...… sometimes desire is
right and appropriate and sometimes it is not...…..

to find our balance we must become aware of who we are and
our surroundings..... The very act of desire is not by itself bad or
evil, it is in how we desire that become the question..... does
that desire take over our actions and thoughts? Does achieving
that desire become the only goal? then desire has become bad,
unwanted...… but I desire and you desire and it is in the way
we respond to our desire that make it either right or wrong...….

I desire understanding, knowledge and in so desiring, even
though money is rather tight right now, I still am buying books
on philosophy and history and what it means to be "modern"...
my desires has influenced my shopping habits but it hasn't overwhelmed
me, it hasn't caused me to spend our food money on books...… I am
still in balanced with regards to my buying books...…
gaining knowledge, understanding is a priority for me, I desire it,
but I still try to keep balance in my life...…… My desire hasn't
taken over my life...….I can say yes to buying books as long as
I understand, recognize that I cannot buy as many books as I so desire,
I must limit my book buying to what we can afford.... I have balanced
my desire for knowledge with the realities of my life......I have said yes...
in a practical and balanced fashion...……..

I can achieve peace of mind within the boundaries of what I desire
and what I do as a father, husband, breadwinner...………

My desires are simply one aspect of my life, the desires have
a set and organized place in my life and I can say yes, as long
as I practice moderation in those desires...….I have peace of mind,
serenity, tranquility because my desires are part of, part of my
existence, not desires denied and not the totality of my existence, just part of.....
and that part is practiced in moderation....

We can achieve our desires without causing suffering if we
engage with our desires with moderation and balance....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:49 pm

This question of the human existence,
the human condition is puzzling....

In reading the ancients, the ancient schools of philosophy,
The Platonist, Aristotelian, Stoic, Epicurean and Skeptic...
one see's that they each agree in that we are too attached
to things, either physical or emotional.... we are too attached/addicted
to things like TV's, Cars, the so called "finer things in life" and we are
too attached/addicted to such ephemeral things like fame, money, titles....
things that are short lived, transient.... things that come and go like a fart in
the wind........

Read the Buddha and his message was exactly the same...
and by being attached to such transient things, we set ourselves
up for the suffering we see in the world...

Read Jesus and he says the same thing.... He suggests (as does the Buddha)
that we must reject the material world in favor of something more substantial,
something that is of value not just today, but for all the days to come....

The two differ on the question of what is the thing of value, the Buddha
suggest that we focus on the present, right now and Jesus suggests
that we focus on the coming of the lord which will take us to heaven
if, if we believe in him....... this belief that the answer lies in the future for
Jesus and the answer for the Buddha is today, right now... and that is the main
difference between them.......

But both believe that the answer lies in improving ourselves...
one for the trip to heaven and one to improve man's soul....
The answer for Jesus is a personal, individual matter.....
and that is the failure of Christianity... its focus on the
one, the individual instead of the focus on what the one
can do to improve society which is by becoming a better person.....

Jesus doesn't say anything about how to improve society, the whole,
whereas the Buddha does and that makes the Buddha's message far
greater and more important...…….it is not enough to ensure our
own passage to heaven, we must be engage in all mankind, in fact,
all life......We engage in Jesus message of improving ourselves to go to heaven,
but the reality is we must engage in improving ourselves to aid society, to
improve society.. to make the world a better place to live.....
that is the reason for our engagement with improving ourselves...
not to selfishly go to heaven, but to help others... personally, I would refuse
to go to heaven if others can not go to heaven, it must be an all
or nothing for me... if all cannot get to heaven, I won't go......although to be
honest, given my track record, my chances for heaven is a bit on the slim side.....
but you get the point...…… it is not enough to ensure ourselves personally, of
salvation, we must engage with others so they reach salvation.....it is more
important that they reach salvation then if I reach salvation...…..

and one possible way of achieving salvation is by refusing to engage
in the modern fixation of materialism......our attachment to things, material
and immaterial.....we already know the answer to how to improve ourselves,
we have heard this message all our lives.... we have been indoctrinated with
the words of Jesus our whole live and yet, yet we continue to ignore that
fundamental message that not only Jesus gave us but the schools of
ancient philosophy and the Buddha gave us...…….that we must free
ourselves of attachment to values that have no real meaning...…
materialism as a value is worthless, addiction to such transitory things
as fame, money, goods, respect are values not worth having because
they don't answer the fundamental needs of the human being...…
they answer the empty needs of a hungry man who would eat anything
in some attempt to fill his empty stomach... the hungry man would eat
anything if hungry enough and we are like that hungry man.....
we are starved and we will eat any values that seems to appease
that hunger...… but the values offered by modern society are empty
calories.... may has well be eating the cardboard those values came in,
which is just as filling as the modern values we are given...…

In rejecting those empty calories, we call modern values,
we then are faced with the choice of what values are not
empty calories...… cardboard values...…….

among those empty values, the empty calories is any possibility
of future salvation and any possibility of replenishing our souls
with the empty calories of fame, money, materialism, respect,
the modern nihilism of the pursuit of profits,
those are empty values, empty calories...…

it is the values we engage with, that make life worth living..
the positive values of love, peace, charity, hope, honesty,
it is these values given in the present that offer us any hope
of filling our souls, of enriching our souls with values that
feed our soul...….

we can no longer believe that the empty promise of
modern values, nihilistic values can feed our souls...….. only
positive values can offer us any hope of not starving to death in
this nihilistic world...……

we must escape the transient world of modern values
and begin to reach for the more lasting and edible values of
the positive values that we need.....love, peace, charity...….


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:47 am
Location: blue state

Previous

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users