a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:25 pm

so to better understand this problem of systems....

let us imagine a family.... father, mother, two kids and a dog name fido…..


how does this family spend its energy/matter determines how
well this family survives and grows....

if the father, for example, spends his time and energy on drinking,
for example, he is taking energy/matter from his family and putting it
into drinking booze..... he is spending his energy/matter on drinking
instead of the family... for the family to exist, it must have energy/matter,
if that energy/matter is going to the drinking, it isn't going to the family...
and that family risks failure, a systems failure....

that is one small example of how, by spending our energy/matter into
our systems can lead to success or failure of any given system.....

so, if we spend our energy/matter on matters that doesn't help the overall
system, we risk failure in that system...…

so, by giving massive tax cuts to the wealthy, we risk system failure,
for that energy/matter must go to those in the system who are a greater
part of the system...… it really is about the majority of the system, any system....

if a system is to succeed, the vast majority of those in the system, must be given
energy/matter... so in our current system, the energy/matter that our system
puts back into the system, must go to the vast majority of the system....
not the few, wealthy, but the vast majority of people....so the tax cut
will damage our current system, whereas the just canceled pay raise of
federal employees damages the system, because we must give the majority
of whatever is in that system, the majority of energy/matter...…. as there
are over 3 million federal employee's, the vast majority of energy/matter must
go there, instead of massive tax cuts for a few wealthy individuals...…..

we see how the failure of IQ45 will continue long after he is dead.....
he is promoting system failure on a large scale by promoting the interest
of a few, small number of people instead of promoting the majority of
our current system, the United States...…

he is being short sided, greedy, myopic, hateful, but that
does describe conservatives doesn't it...….. unable to see
the larger scope of systems...….. at all times, we must focus
on the larger scale understanding of systems and act with
energy/matter to the continuation of that individual system as
well as our overall system of which the United States is part of...…

its is clear from our understanding that a liberal point of view
is a better understanding and continuation of system, both large and
small...….


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:54 pm

conservatives stand on the side of the new age, the modern age, in
that they support the industrial revolution and its aftermath......

what the industrial revolution did was sever the human
connection to values......

what does the values of love and justice/equality and hope
and faith and honesty have to do with the new values of
the machine, the industrial revolution?

the new values are to be on time, don't talk back,
profits at all cost (even human beings are expendable in the name
of profits) the infallibility of the corporation (it can never be wrong)
you have a clear and defined hierarchy flowing from top to bottom
(which is the modern substitute for the medieval church)


and what does this have to do with your previous posts about
energy/matter? why the real question becomes, if we are creatures
that exchanged energy/matter, this exchange is the entire
function of the human creature, then what should we be
expending our energy/matter upon? should we really be expending it
upon the new masters built upon the timeclock and the machine?

for if there is one machine that sums up the modern age,
it is the timeclock...…….

the industrial revolution replaced the old values, regardless of their
intentions and purpose, with new values... values that raise
machines above humans and their values...………

how shall we expend our energy/matter?

this is the next question....

what can we know?
what should we do?
what can we hope for?
what should our values be?
on what shall we expend our energy/matter on?

human beings have a finite amount of energy/matter to expend
and what shall we expend that energy upon?

until we can connect with the energy/matter that is everywhere around
us, almost as a force that exists around us... even the very air we breath
can be energy, for it is part of the cycle of the exchange of energy/matter
that we too are a part of...…

for anything you look at, it is part of the overall energy/matter cycle
of the universe... look at the walls surrounding you, those too are part
of the energy/matter cycle.... for all matter and energy in the universe
has the same right of existence that you, the walls, the tree's,
the oven and the floors you walk on, have.... because they are,
and they exists as part of the universal reason of existence.....

for they are composed of atoms, and atoms can be exchanged,
from energy to matter and back again, but atoms cannot be destroyed....
they exist as they have always existed since the beginning of time and
shall continue to exists long after the earth has turned into dust...…

that is the secret of the universe...… the continuity of the universe
lies in all those atomic and sub-atomic parts which make up
all the energy and matter in the universes and they can never be
destroyed...… just exchanged from energy to matter and back again.....

and what values can we derived from all that energy and matter?

they are valueless and that is the quiet secret the universe holds from us....
it has no values... just the exchange of energy to matter and matter to energy.....

there are no values there.....

but we humans can create values.....and as far as we know in the universe,
as far as we know, we are the only existing energy/matter that exists
in the universe that creates values...….. so should we create
values of the machine as the modern age has done or, or should
we create values of the living, breathing energy/matter exchanging
beings that we are...…..

that is the beauty of being human...….. we can create values...……

we have something no other collection of energy/matter atoms can
do...……. we can create values and.... and we can continue those
values over time...…………. love is something that has existed
since the beginning of time...…….. it is something outside of
the exchange of energy/matter that everything else in the universe is...

it is rather exciting to know that we humans can do something that
no other collection of energy/matter atoms can do, we can create
values...…….. and if we are the only collection of atoms that can create
values.... I say let us create values that are as extraordinary as humans
seem to be and that is values that celebrate the possibilities of being
human by having values of love and hope and charity and justice
and all those values that are positive and upbeat...……….

why be the only collection of energy/matter that can create values
and have those values be the negative values of our human nature...
values like hate and anger and greed and lust and vice and intolerance...….

we should promote the values that stabilize our systems and who we are
with values like the higher values of our human existence...……………


why should we hate other collections of energy/matter atoms?

they are a temporary collection of energy/matter atoms...…
and soon to be exchanged into another temporary collection
of energy/matter atoms and then another and then another.....

we, everything in the universe is simply a collection of temporary
bits of energy/matter atoms, that has for a short time, taken
form...…….. and then we become atoms again and soon, we become
part of another collection of temporary bits of energy/matter atoms.....
and that is the universe...….. simply a never ending series of
of temporary collection bits of energy/matter that becomes
something and then shortly thereafter changes again....

today, I am Kropotkin and soon, soon, parts of my collection
of atoms will combine to form something else, maybe a dollhouse
or a chair or the wind or heat or a bear...…. and my collection of atoms
will go on forming new collection of energy/matter items until the
end of the universe...…… I am immortal as you are immortal....

we will exists as parts of energy/matter bits until the universe ends

so under this immortality.. why should we engage with values
like hate and anger and greed and lust when we are something
that is really outside of time?


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:31 am

we know that time/space are not fixed, absolute's....
they change, they are flexible, time changes with mass
and space flexes, bends with mass, gravity/mass can change
both space and time......

this notion is part of what has atometized man, they have helped
man be reduced to a single atom within the universe...…

we are now atoms in the universe, we react like atoms, not like
part of something but as individual atoms acting and reacting to
the universe...……… our loss of the certainty of space/time has
created, in part, this change in our understanding in who we are...……..

we are discrite, separate atoms...….. with nothing to tie us to
the universe or to our fellow human beings...…..

we now see why so many are so intent on security....instead of freedom,
for this idea of everyone being a separate atom is a freedom that many
don't want or afraid of..... having freedom, real freedom means you are
responsible for your actions...…...if you are a individual atom like
every human being is, then every action you take is your action and no one else's
and you are responsible for your actions...… .that is a scary thought....
to be completely responsible for our entire life's actions...……..

that is why many need security... not for external safety
but internal safety...…. people are beginning to understand
what being an individual atom, means what It really means...….
and that scares people enough to want security...… and since
they can't have internal security.... they will take external security/safety...…..

it is fear that drives people to security and that is not only the physical security
of the police and the military and jails and a strong national defense
but to a more desperate faith in god...……. for that is another
example of security...………. when people are afraid, they turn to god....
and that is why this loss of the certainty of time/space and of the ism's
and ideologies of human beings has turned people to god...… in some vain
attempt to find the security, the safety, the certainty they found in
such concepts of space/time and nation and the alleged superiority of
this race or that religion or of a certain sex...……………… we have lost the
security of those childhood myths, ism's, habits, prejudices and superstitions
and we are adrift with the freedom of a atom...……….. and that freedom
requires we must become responsible for our actions...…

and we human beings fear becoming or taking responsibility
for our actions...……….. as a kid, when I broke something
and my mom ask, Kropotkin, did you break that lamp?
and of course, of course I answered, no, not me...
maybe one of my sisters or the dog or the cat broke that lamp...
but it wasn't me...… we try to evade responsibility for our actions
for fear of the consequences...…..for fear of the consequences...…..

maybe the answer to the question of being human exists
around this question of responsibility and our fear of consequences...…….

we tell little children that they must be good or god will punish them....
we tell children if they aren't good, that Santa Claus won't bring them
toys...……
we make hell the worst thing in the universe and if you don't obey
god, you will spend all of eternity in this worst place in the universe.....

in our attempt to create good, compliant, obedient citizens
we also separate children from who they are.....

we atomtize them, which means we begin the process of turning children
into separate atoms, apart from their fellow man, apart from all that
make us truly human...……..we atomitize man when we preach such
ism's that turn man into atoms and that is what capitalism does....
it turns us into individual and separate atoms...…….. instead of
connecting us and bringing us together..... ism's like capitalism divides us
and separate us into atoms......

maybe this is the legacy of the industrial revolution and
the ensuing ism's that came out of the industrial revolution,
capitalism...…. it has divided us into individual and competing
atoms.. atoms that fight over the small amount of scraps of paper that
our corporate overlords has starved us with over these last 100 years...….

capitalism has turned us into separate and individual atoms..
with no link to each other outside of money changing hands...…

but we can be more, so much more then just individual atoms
that only produce and consume individually...………

what have I done here?

I have defined the modern man..... fearful of the consequences,
having lost the link with our fellow human outside of our
economic link with our fellow human beings......
and afraid of taking responsibility for our own actions for fear of
the consequences...…………….


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Posts: 6761
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:50 pm

expression.... all human express in some fashion or another....
you hear babies before they can even talk, expressing themselves
via yells and shouts and making all kinds of noise...

but expression isn't just verbal.... the taxi driver that flips you
off, the painting on the wall, the music on the radio, all
in one form or another, a means of expression.....

Art is a form of expression..... the question becomes the
medium in which art is expressed....from primitive cave
paintings to todays performance art... art and the act of
expression...…. some have even said that the way we create
our lives is a form of art...an act of expression...…

if the defination of art is the act of expression....
then anytime we express, it is an act of art.....
thus we can call, rightfully, philosophy as an act
of expression, philosophy as art....

think of Plato works, not as philosophy but
as acts of expression, as art...it can be said that
the reason Plato is still being read is because Plato's
work is art which elevates the philosophy into something
new.......and why Nietzsche writings is also art....as
literature Nietzsche works is the best work of art any philosopher
has done since Plato............

think of our lives without art, without expression....
a dull and boring affair it would be indeed......

art says something about our lives... art creates meaning in
our lives..art creates values in our lives....

art gives expression to such values as beauty and justice and
equality..... art is one such creator of values that we use to
explain and justify and given meaning to our lives.....

as I have no artistic ability, even my mom says so,
I express the me, the essential part of me by words......
by philosophy......................

so if art, expression is essential to humans...
then we another question besides the basic ones....

What can we know?
What should we do?
What can we hope for?
What should our values be?
How should we spend our energy?
and now this.....
What do we express and how?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Posts: 6761
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:45 pm

the modern man...

the atomic man... isolated, separated, individual man...…

and what do we know about the very small, the microuniverse?

we know it is random, choatic, formless, without order....

and that is a perfect discription of the modern man....

so, what are we to do?

some might say, our task, our mission in our modern age is
to discover our way back to a unified man... to a unified soul...

what created our divided and separate souls?

the industrial revolution and its ideology/ism of capitalism......

so, it seems logical that if we want to return to having a unified
soul, we must reject and replace capitalism and modify
the effects of the industrial revolution in people, on
our souls........

the damage that the industrial revolution has done to
people and to our planet cannot be overstated......

the damage of becoming an atomic man, just an atom
in the sphere of human affairs cannot be overstated.....

the alienation and the nihilism of the 20th and 21st century come
directly from the atomazation of the modern man which is from
the industrial revolution and its idology/ism, capitalism......

how do we connect "what we are to do" not with the GDP or
some other false and phony economic standard, no, but with
some standard of living of life where the goal is not economic
or a standard of living but with the inner man and the soul are
the measure of the standard of living...….. we should no longer be
concerned with how much money we make or what is Gross National
product but with something far more intangible...…………

concern with those question of who we are...….
what can we know and what should we do and
what can we hope for, what should our values be
and what should we spend our energy on?

we don't have to engage in economic matters as much
as we need to engage with matter like, what values are
important to us because that is how we become who we are....
by becoming our values...….but we must first begin the process of
understanding what values we were indoctrinated with and then
overcoming them...… and that is only possible by the process of
understanding who we are, to know thyself...…….

it is all connected...………

but to know ourselves , we must first come to grips with
our current state the modern man...…..atomic human beings....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:41 pm

I quite often hear people say that they don't do
self introspection...……. and you can see people
don't often engage with themselves in self introspection....

village idiots like IQ45 doesn't even know what
self introspection is.... but it is important if only
not to be as dumb as IQ45...…

How are we to know if we are in the right place in our lives if we don't engage
in some self introspection..... how are we to know anything about who we are
and what is the right thing to do if we don't engage in some self introspection?

if there is one thing lacking in the universe is a personal awareness
of what does it mean to be a human being and what we are to do and
what should we hope for and what should our values be?

these human questions cannot be answered unless we engage in some personal
self reflection about who we are and what is the value of life and other such
questions......

if you don't know why you do things or don't do things... then you aren't much
of a philosopher because philosophy is all about our own introspection of
our values, our lives and our own personal questions of existence.....

to engage in those questions of the human existence is an essential part
of being human........ we must ask ourselves.... who are we and what
should we do and what should our values be and what should we spend
our energy on.... all valid questions of human existence.....
and all questions we must ask ourselves, not every couple of years but
on a daily basis..... the questions of human existence must be asked and
answered every single day............

do you engage in self introspection? if not, why not?

why not understand who you are and what is possible for you.....

why not ask yourself, what can I/we know?
what should I/we do? what can I/we hope for?
what should mine/our values be? what should I/we spend
our energy on?

for every human condition question is not just a personal question
but a collective question...… we must collectively ask ourselves
the questions of human existence for we exist together, collectively...

so, are going to engage in self introspection or you going to be as useless as IQ45?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:37 pm

"you are aware of only one unrest;
Oh, never learn to know of the other!
Two souls, alas, are dwelling in my breast,
and one is striving to forsake its brother.......

Goethe.....and he said this 200 years ago....
at the start of the industrial revolution......

the ancients, the Greeks and Romans and the Egyptians
didn't know of any such bifurcation of the human soul

the medieval man was but one soul trying to reach heaven...

but the modern man has had his soul divided, rent asunder.....

we are but shallow creatures with divided souls that don't allow
us to become who we are because we cannot know who we are
because of our fractured souls......

the modern era, dominated by the nihilism of the high religion of
the pursuit of profit/money and elucidated by the high priests of Capitalism.....

the industrial revolution with its emphasis on profits/money over human beings
and their values has demeaned life to the point where life is valued
lower then green pieces of papers.........

two souls, alas, dwell in my breast......

you hear of the nice boy down the block who belonged to the boy scouts
and never did anything wrong who kills dozens with an assult rifle.....

alas, more then two souls reside in our hearts....

so the question becomes, how do we reunify our shattered souls?

how do we become one soul?

can it even be possible for us to have a coherent understanding of who
we are because of our divided and fractured nature?

This is why the question of, Who am I, becomes so troubling,
because which soul are you referring to when asking, "Who am I"

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:04 pm

this question of the modern times and the increase
in mental illness is one that cannot be ignored because
it speaks to the nature of the dislocation of the soul of man
due to the industrial revolution and its ideology, capitalism......

I believe that as a species, we have had an increase in mental
illness over what occured previously.......

we have always had mental illness, that is not the question,
the problem is that we have a vast increase of mental illness
because of the industrial revolution........ we have
serial killers and we have people shooting up schools
and we have acts of violence accross the world, that
shows us the impact of the "modern world" has had on us.....

The ancient world, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans..
did not face such an increase in mental illness cause by the society
and its belief system.......... you had individuals who were mentally
ill and every society, every state, every culture has had those
are mentally ill and each society delt with each case of mental
illness as best as it could..... but we have had an increase in
mental illness because of the increased pressures brought to life
by the economic system of the society........... if you want to undestand
what caused this increase in mental illness, look at the economic
system we live under which denies the values and the very person
of the human beings under that system.... that nihilism is what, in part,
causes mental illness in modern man....... we must have value but
we do not have value because we aren't considered to "produce" enough...
value is thought to be the product of economic system, not as part
of the justice or being morally good.... no, value in our current
system is deemed to be economical in nature... and we judge people
on economic values and not on their worth as human beings......

if you are rich or can create wealth, you are deemed to have value...
if you are not rich or cannot create wealth, you are deemed to
be a failure or a loser...... your value as a human being is tied to
economic belief instead of any intrinsic value you might have as
a human being...…. being kind has no economic value so it is
discounted as having no value at all...….. and calling for peace
is discounted because war creates greater economic value then does
peace...… a thing is judge on economic terms instead of human terms...…

and this is reflected in the rise in mental illness around the world in
our modern age...……….. this judgment of humans by economic standards
is what creates this mental illness because the judgement of humans
by economic standards is a very narrow and false judgement of human beings....
for we have value beyond economic value..... and this is why we have
this increase in mental illness...… we cannot stand being judged for economic
values when we have so much more to offer then economic values...…….

what other recourse does one have when they have been rejected as
being an adequate human being by economic values when the economic
values are so shortsided and wrong...…….. we are judged by the only value
that has value in the modern world, profits / losses/ money...…..

we have as a system that is the only system in town and that system
judges us by the values of the economic system which is profits/money.....

and if we don't meet that judgement, we are rejected and scorned
and valueless, given no voice in the modern world... and so because
we have no voice in our personal lives and no voice in our economic
lives and no voice in our political life, we can either accept our fate or
we can begin to have mental illness as a response to being judged
on our worth as human beings by economic standards which only accept
profits and money as the only judgement of human beings...….
it is no wonder why mental illness is on the rise in our modern age.....
we have no value in the modern world if we are not engaged in the world
economically...…….

we are not given the means of expression and so we must express
ourselves through the only means available, which is by violence
and guns...…………………. we must express ourselves or we go insane....
and as most people have been rendered silent, they express themselves
in the only means they can find.... which is a violent one because our
society is a martial society... and this is shown by our moral documents
such as the budgets of the government...….and those documents are
martial documents as the vast majority of money is spent on martial
activities like the defense and spying budget which is half of all money
spent in the United States budget...……..violence create a means
to spend money whereas peace does not...….even the drive for profits/money
drives the moral document of the United States budget...……….

mental illness is perhaps the only possible response to being deemed
to having no value because you don't create wealth or have an economic
value...………… we can see how mental illness is one response to being deemed
to having no value... another response is an increase in the taking of drugs,
booze, finding experiences to derive value from...….. the increase in opioids
didn't happen in a vacuum or a void.. it happened because people feel, correctly,
that they have no value in our society or culture and so taking opioids is on
response to discovering you have no value in the modern world and no voice
or any means to express yourself to find validation in the modern world...…..

human behavior is driving in part, by the need to express oneself and
to find validation for oneself...……….. we no longer have that and so
we struggle to find some response to that need... much of the modern world
troubles comes this this need to express ourselves and our need for validation....

does this drive you?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
Peter Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:47 pm

If we understand the "modern" era as a continuation of
the past, then it is possible to reevaluate our "modern" times....

we have had the past, the Christian past.... and one possible
way to understand the "modern" world is to think of the
"modern" world as a secular version of the Christian past....

in other words, Modern secular thinking is just a reworking of
the Christian idea's of the past...…….so to put some context on this,
Descartes and his fixation on certainty is a modern version
of the medieval idea of certainty...…. he comes to his idea of
certainty by the secular version of medieval thought of certainty.....

he wants science to be as certain as theologians are certain about
spiritual matters...…… the quest for certainty in those 200 years from
Descartes to Kant is a secular version of medieval certainty...……

this modern need for a reworking of religious idea into modern
methods or terminology still exists...……

we see people who approach modern life with the exact same
needs as they approached the medieval times...…

for example, we see those with a religious bent to idolize political
figures in the way the religious idolize religious figures.....

look at St. Ronnie for example.. the right idolize him in the exact same
way the religious idolize Jesus...………...they want to "canonize" him to
the point where they were trying to get him onto Mount Rushmore...…
and they have named everything not tied down after him...…….

the right treat him as a religious figure.... he can do no wrong.....

and that is part of the how the religious "modernize" religious
ideals...…….

if you see how the base has idolize IQ45 is the same thing...….

and the demonization of the left by referring to them in biblical terms,
quite often, Obama was called the "antichrist" by the right...………
and the understanding of the left was done in religious terms...….

and on the left, you have Marx's idea that when the class system broke down
and everyone was of one class, that was the end of history, heaven achieved....
utopia discovered...…..Marx's theory of communism was secularism overlaying
religious concepts... think of the theory of communism as a religious theory.....

but being on the left, it has a slightly different idea...………

we have seen that the medieval age was an age where there was one god,
and only one god and only way to reach god...…..

now think of the reformation and Luther...…

we have two different understandings of the religious concepts...….
we have the ancient Catholic, one god in heaven, art though...….

and we have the new understanding of religion founded by Luther
and company...………. you can see the outline of the next 500 years
with an understanding that the "modern" age is a restating of the
religious ideal in "secular" language...……… That there are those people
who hate democracies where everyone can decide for themselves....
the Reformation ideal and those people who hate democracies
are the ones who pine for one god, one ruler, a political dictatorship...
which in their eyes is the same thing...…. they adhere to the concept of
the medieval world where there is but one god and his name is Allah.....
and their is no difference between those who advocate the medieval
world and those who advocate Allah...….the goal is the exact same goal...
to return to a world of one god, one ruler, one dictatorship both political and
religious...which in their minds is the exact same thing...………… they pine for the
days of religious, economic, political homogeny of the Medieval world...….

and those on the left, they want the equivalent of the reformation....
where every one was free to decide as they wish...….

you can think of the modern age as an repeat of the religious battle
that lasted for 500 years in Europe...….. of one god, with one form of prayer,
with one understanding of life from birth to death...……… and the other side
is fighting to have other gods, other forms of prayer and many different understandings
of life from birth to death...……

you can understand the modern world as being a secularized version of
the religious viewpoint which has dominated the world for two millennium...….

you have always had clashing viewpoints in religious context.....
you have the Jews and their emphasis on one god, one form of prayer
and one text...…. and you have the Egyptian gods who are many and varied
and you have the Greek gods, many and varied, you have the Roman gods,
many and varied...…..

then the medieval world took their cue from the Jewish religion, recall
that Jesus was a Jew who never denounced Judaism or denied it...…

the fact that the Christian world took their cues from the Jewish world is no
surprise given the battle of the world has gone from one god to the many gods
and back again....today, we are in the many god phase of religions....
tomorrow will be another story when the entire one god idea takes over
and the story continues with the battle between one god and many gods
going on through future history...….

anyway, if you look at the right, they want to turn the political
into the religious...……..and the left wants to turn the religious
into the political...…………….the modern world is simply the secularization
of the ancient, religious idea's into acceptable modern idea's...…..
we still think and argue and fight within a religious concept, we just
use modern words to cover that fact...…………

this notion of the secularization of religious ideals was quite common
in the German world during the mid 20th century....see Hans Blumenberg
for example...."The legitimacy of the Modern age"...…..

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:02 pm

we exists in the modern age.... but we still use the format and language
and thought of the religious past...…….. we ask questions about values
and the soul and that is a religious question brought into the modern age...…

we ask what is the point of existence and we answer in religious terms
with a religious format..............

we use ancient religious language to describe modern thoughts and believes.......

we are pouring old wine, religious language, into a new container, the modern age
and we expect new results and new idea's..............we cannot expect
something new to come out of something old..............

we must have new language, new formats to describe a new age, the modern age.....

our language and the formats we use must reflect the "modern" age......
if we are a secular age, then perhaps we should actually begin using a
new secular language and formats instead of "Borrowing" ancient religious
language and formats.........

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:56 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote:Today's Idea is about a misguided idea, happiness.

the Greeks were all over this idea that life was about happiness.
They spent a whole lot of time going over how a man could be happy,
with pleasure, with knowledge, with fame or success.
The medieval philosophers thought it was the closer to god, the happier a person.
We have the declaration of independence saying, Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
But what if they are wrong! What if the purpose of life has nothing to do with happiness.
This pursuit of happiness is another lie used to give us some hope that we will find happiness

I think maybe the secret they were in on was that the pursuit of a big goal makes you happy. So you might as well go for a big goal like Happiness, and it will make you happy to try.

I want to smile in retrospect. So I need to give myself reasons to smile, thats how I live my life so thats my philosophy.

think about it, think about happiness and sadness and all those other feelings we have.
They (feelings) are transitory, very fleeting, they come and go like the wind, never staying too long.
Someone says to you, I am sad because of ....... That event that caused the sadness is also transitory.
I am sad because I lost my job. I am happy because I am in love. I am mad because the Giants lost last
night. Transitory events which lead to transitory feelings. I am sad because I lost my job.... will I still
be sad tomorrow? We don't know, we cannot hazard a guess as to whither we will be sad tomorrow or the
next day or the next day.

You got a better bet at influencing this and not being the sad one the next day too if you pursue happiness with a zeal.
Go out and fish, catch a big one, know what I mean? I mean adventure. Happiness is a secret code word for adventure.

We might still be jobless, but our feelings, changes, transitory.
I have found in my life, when I was happy, I was doing something else, my happiness was a result
of doing something. My happiness was the byproduct of something else. I was happy because I was in love.
I was in love because I was happy, doesn't work that way. Happiness, sadness, anger, are all byproducts
of something else. I was sad because .... I am angry because ...... I am happy because......

External causes can never make a warrior sad. Only a lack of his own will to go out and conquer or stand firm to protect is the sadness of the world which he shares in bad years, meagre years.
William James is all thats needed for happiness control. But happiness is a verb and you can't be passively happy.

Our emotions didn't cause
the event, the event caused our emotions. I have noticed I don't react the same way I used to react.
I recall being very angry after 9/11 and wanting to nuke every Muslim country. The feeling passed quickly

Haha yeah thats what happens. For me it passes but I decide I need some action to counteract this shit.
I feel the need to wash my hands off the evil so I seek opportunity to strike back. This calms my mind. Or heart first, it stabilizes my heart so my mind gets clear.

and I got over it. I remember feeling sick and angry over the various shootings that occurred, Virginia Tech,
and all the others. I heard about South Carolina this morning, it made slightly sad, but I know that will pass soon.
I know, know more senseless deaths and shootings will happen soon because we allow it. I have put
the recent south Carolina shooting into context and have accepted with a sad understanding. It is a wisdom
that allows me to take such sad events and put them into an historical and political context knowing I will
be reading about another such event, tomorrow and next week and next year. All because we are pursing
our "happiness" and allowing guns.

No because education sucks I think.
Of course except Ivy League. But the rest is shit and students take it out on the system.

Life is not sacred, it is a biological event and biological events. don't
rely on emotions such as happiness or sadness or anger. biological events only
exist to exist and recreate. Biology is not about sadness or other emotions, but
about existing and then recreating itself. I don't need to feel sad or happy or angry
to understand my purpose in life is not, IS NOT, happiness, but to recreate, to reproduce
for another generation to exist. If we go extinct, follow the dinosaurs, we have failed in
our biological purpose, which is to exist and to reproduce another generation. All our happiness
and sadness and anger means nothing if we fail in our biological purpose.

For me biological events are often sacred. I don't know anything else so why is it not sacred? You dismiss yourself as unsacred. Which is true, you can do that. Stalin wrote book about that. He was pretty smart if some people don't know. He lured the nazis into the winter and then came out like a boogieman. He was Georgian, a rural romantic almost a gypsie, like Hitler actually. Anyway, acidness is not always given in the minds of humans. But in happy humans I think always sacredness is close by when we sleep.

Gotta trust the wolves.
Dreams are all wolves.

Now recall yesterday lesson, how we exist and we shall always exist to the end of time
because of atoms living on beyond our existence. How do we understand
this with any failure of our biological purpose? This is an contradiction. How do we
handle this contradiction?

Kropotkin

No, we die and are forgotten. But not immediately. We need to be respectful so we get a good grave people don't wanna piss on.
(I dont want to bother you with my beliefs)
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:26 pm

this will be an extremely long post... as I wrote it out, it took
15 pages...….

we have events, for example, the dishwasher was started, the clothes washer
was started and a package was retrieved from the front porch......
three isolated events and what is their commonality? me... I started
the laundry and the dishwasher and got the package.. they could have
been done in any order, the order was irrelevant...so time was not a question...
we have random events occuring all the time, a tree falls in the forest,
a cat walked down the street and the garbage is being picked up.....
what connects those three events? those three events exists in time and space
they are specific events here on earth.... you cannot get these events in the ocean
or in the desert or up in the air...these events require certain conditions to occur
for these events to happen... how are to connect/understand these events? what
method shall we use to connect these events? a tree falls, a garbage truck picks
up garbage, a cat walks down the street....... how would we connect these events?

the tree falling is a natural event, the garbage truck picking up garbage is a
man made event and the cat walking down is a natural event but on the
man made street......so we can divide up events into catagories of some sort
thus connecting them into catagories....we could also explain these events
by a religious context, there is a god who directs each and every single event....
or we could explain these events by science and scientific laws, the science method....

we can describe/understand events using these two methods, the religious or the
scientific..... however if we had a completely random event, say, pigs flying.....
then we can use the religious explanation but the reality is, we must use the scientific
explanation because the religious explanation is too subjective, which religion
would we use, which god would we credit, the choices in a religious
explanation are vast and bewildering..... which explanation would we and could
we use? the only clear answer is the scientific method..... just because science
doesn't yet have an answer doesn't mean it won't have an answer, it just mean
it doesn't have one yet...… there are no metaphysical explanations and no
metaphysical events... in time we can explain everything scientifically.....
but that explanation of everything doesn't mean we can explain
certain questions like who are we and what are our possibilities?

science cannot explain those questions and religious pretends to
explain those questions but we fall back into the extreme subjectivity
of religion which creates difficulties in our answers.....
religion is about extremes...… for the requirement that we must
put faith above reason, is an extreme position...……….

but the rise of science has created its own problems...
for science cannot answer certain question, the Kantian/Kropotkin
questions....

what can we know?
what shall we do?
what ought we hope for?
what should our values be?
what should we expand our energy on?
how do we express and how?

as science rises, we must become ever aware of what our soul needs....
for science cannot speak to our inner needs which is the function of the soul....
we cannot accept science and ignore who we are...…

the rise of existentialism in the midst of the 20th century
rise in science was not an accident....as science and technology
increases, the soul demands equal time

we must become aware of connections and what is the connection
between the rise of science and rationality and the discord of the
last 150 years?

science is the rational and the soul is the emotional
and we must, must acknowledge both the rational and
the emotional..... they are part of an equation...…
and in any equation, you must have equal sides for the equation
to work... you have mathematical equations and you have the
human equation and both must equal out.....
there is a reason that Nazism rose in the most scientifically
advance country on earth...…..

science tells us that for every action there is an equal and opposite
reaction...….. the rise of science means a rise in the opposite,
the irrational...the equations must equal out....
and as we exists in a world where we have scientific equations
we also have human equations which must too balance out.....
so, for every action is an opposite and equal reaction is true
of rocket ships, it is true of us.... we exists as equations just
as space and time and motion are equations....we must have
an equation that equal on both side for us to exists as human beings...
a human being is an equation.... if on one side exists logic and science,
we must balance the other side of the equation with emotions.....
the equation must balance.....

this understanding/connection of an equation to us as human beings
explains the modern age current extreme partisanship...…
the equation must stand... so if the right goes to an extreme
position, the left to maintain the equation must go to an extreme
position... the left/right split is an attempt to maintain the equation
in the political as it is in the human being itself...…
for all aspects of human existence must maintain the equation,
what ever that equation is....for society to operate as currently
constructed, we must have balance between the parties....
however if we remove the party system, there is no need
to maintain balance/equality between them...……

for society to operate/function as is, we must keep the equation equal....
the dramatic increase gains by science/technology has create
an imbalance in the equation that society has...… which the conservative
tries to hold the balance by extreme idealization of the past...….

the conservative tries/wants to return to an idealized past because
the equation seems right in that era...…. as science/technology increases
the more that the conservative wants to return to a ever idealized past....
the conservative wants to return to the middle ages because it fits
the criteria of a balanced society.... not a fair society, but a balanced one....
the middle ages was a stable, slow moving society which we don't have
today..... the conservative sees our fast moving society as a threat
to the stability of society...…..the equation must be held in human
actions as well as human behavior.... which is why conservatives
try to hold growth of society/science/technology to tradition
this is an attempt to create an equation...by slowing down growth and progress....

so we have Darwin, for example, how do we keep the equation with
Darwin? you have science + Darwin = ?

If Darwin is right, then how do we maintain the equation or hold the balance?

the fight to maintain and increase religion is the fight to maintain
the equation...… to force religion to be separate but equal to science
thus the use of religious idea's and language to understand secular idea's...….

this is to keep the equation, the balance in society...………..

so how do we keep the balance/equation in society?

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:49 pm

as today seems to be the day for trying to understand without
any purpose, here are more reflections....

The question of infinity and finite.... leads us to this.....

atoms are infinite as matter/energy is infinite

but the material made out of atoms like humans and the earth
and chairs are finite.... but the atoms that make up humans and
the earth and chairs will continue on.......
so some day the earth will disintegrate into indivdual atoms...
the earth will end but the atoms that made up the earth will go
on and someday will create another earth because of gravity....

so even atoms must follow the equation idea.....
they disintegrate but they don't disintegrate......
the equation of atoms will continue on.....

E=mc2..............energy = matter.....

as we work out the connections we can begin to see
how we can avoid the prior expressions of religious secularism....

secularism which is hiding in its language and format
religious thought.............. we can avoid that if we
understand what we are doing, using religious language to
describe secular actions and events and idea's.........

we must become aware of the very language we are using
in regards to how we describe our "modern" era...……

we can avoid using religious language if we take out the subjectivity
of the world...…… the goal in life is to be happy...…….
if we understand that life is finite as in a dog or a human is finite,
but life itself as atoms is infinite...……...so happiness no longer
becomes some goal to be reached...… it doesn't matter to atoms
or a finite life if the form that atoms take is happy or not.... the individual
atoms don't care if you are happy..... they will continue on long after
the body you exist in as a collection of atoms, dies...…..

those atoms that make up your body will go on in some other fashion,
as matter or as energy and those atoms will continue to bounce
back and forth as matter/mass and energy...… energy will continue to
convert into matter/mass and matter/mass will continue to convert into
energy.... that is the true dance of existence.....you are just a temporary
form of matter which was before matter/energy and afterwards will return to
matter/energy depending...….

that is a truth...…… happiness doesn't fit into this understanding of
the universe...…………. so we have an equation E=MC2.....
the question becomes how do we fit into this equation?
it is no longer enough to try to understand how we fit into
this temporary religious/political situation we might find ourselves in,
but we must fit ourselves into the bigger picture, one of the Kropotkin's
questions, on what will we spend our energy on?

the question of E=mc2 means we must address ourselves to that
question instead of the other questions that we might believe to be
important...……. so the basis of our understanding, of our current existence
begins with the equation of E=mc2...… that is the beginning of our understanding
of the universe...….. that is ground zero of who we are and what are our possibilities....

we must begin there in any philosophical understanding of our place in the
universe...…….E=Mc2...……...and in doing so, we remove the religious/ subjective
understanding of the universe...……..humans are simply matter/energy creatures
and convert from one to another over time...… I take in food and convert that
food into energy and then release that food as matter...… it is all the same
in the human body.... energy = matter..... so we must begin there in understanding
who we are and what are our possibilities....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:27 pm

so we have by the means posted above eliminated both religion
and politics and happiness as goals to be achieved...….. so,
the question becomes, what is left?

that question can be answered by understanding that every system,
be it human, a solar system, a car or a political system is a temporary
collection of atoms that will break up at some point... nothing outside
of atoms is infinite.... everything but atoms is temporary......

so as a system, either human or social or political, we must
understand our temporary status.... but the first rule of life,
the absolute first rule of life is simple, continue to exists at all cost.....

that is not a subjective rule, that is an objective first rule of life,
continue to exist.....

and that rule has been ingrained into life since the very first days of
life's existence, at least 4 billion years ago and probably much longer......

so, we are at the mercy of life's rule of existence, last as long as possible....

so we are a system of cells, be it a human or a solar system or a car system...
and so as a system, we must follow life's rules, we must continue to exist.....

and what is the best way for life to exist???????

that is by doing what it takes to ensure that the system we temporarily
are, exists as long as possible.... it doesn't make sense, but it is what it is.....
so, as a collection of atoms that temporarily create a system,
we must continue that system for as long as possible.. even if
that goal doesn't make much sense, that is a rule of life...
and that rule is as clear as the rule/law of E =mc2.... energy = matter

the rules are the rules regardless if we agree with them or not...

for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction...
E = mc2....
we must continue to exist as long as possible as a system even if it
is a temporary system as every system must be...…

these rules/ laws are the surest things in the universe....
I can't vouch for their certainty but I can say, that are as sure
a thing that we humans can discover.... especially E = Mc2...….

at no point do we engage in subjective matters in listing the rules of the
universe..... they do not reside in the subjective understanding of
our universe or of us

there is no theological or political or cultural, subjective understanding
of the universe..... it simply understanding the rules/ laws of the universe
like understanding that gravity is a theory of the rules/laws of the universe
or that evolution is a theory of the rules/laws of life.....

if a better theory comes along, we shall adapt to that theory, but until then,
we have our theories of understanding the universe and of life

we have the rules/laws that determines how the universe/life is structured
and how it works... let us work with the rules/laws of the universe as we now
know it...…… remove the subjective religious/political understanding of the
universe/life...……….

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:45 pm

more random thoughts.....

my hearing aid gave out and my glasses broke....
I sent out my hearing aid to be repaired and the
hearing place gave me a loaner hearing aid which doesn't really work
and when my glasses broke I couldn't even fix them, so I had to
go to an optometrist, get an eye test and pick out new frames.....
I have been getting by with a pair of reading glasses and an
8 year old pair of glasses that I can't even see out of, for the last
week...…… it has proven to be difficult faced with being unable to
really hear or to really see.... I am trying to read some books
but its harder with reading glasses instead of my normal glasses......

as I can't really see and I can't really hear, I am feeling very isolated
this week..... and it is reflected in the thoughts of this thread for the
last few days...…...I am forced out of my comfort zone because
I am unable to function as I normally would function...….


in my thinking there is normally a continuity to my thought,
but this last week, I have lost the thread of this continuity
and it shows.....

as I am unable to physically function as I normally function, it is affecting
my thinking...… it is an interesting to see how bodily functions
and how they work affect the thought process...…..

when a couple of years ago, I had multiple surgeries for my colon
issues, I was unable to write for months on end...……….

the state of the body, good or bad, gives us our ability to think
and write...……. we are so affected by our physical bodies,
that we need to physically exist with few if any problems to
conduct ourselves mentally or to write...…………….

physical aspects like stress or illness or a crappy job or marriage will
change our ability to think or to write...…………….

the body must function properly for the mind to function properly....
the body can function without clear thoughts, think of the person suffering
from mental illness whose body still works, still functions properly...….

so we have an equation between the body functioning and the mind/thought
process...…. we must have a working physical body to allow the mind to
work its best...……….that is another equation.....

mind = body...…….. if one gets out of whack, it affects the other side of the
equation..... the two, body and mind must be equal for them
to successfully operate...….

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby barbarianhorde » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:53 pm

physical aspects like stress or illness or a crappy job or marriage will
change our ability to think or to write...……


very true man!
its hard to work for a master and still be your own master, personally I dont know how its done.

For example also philosophers used to be these clowns to jump around before the king who was clapping like a gleeful child, no wonder philosophy isn't meaningful compared to science, which happens in dirty old attics and basements where no king would ever show his face.

Which is why most animals are superior to most humans, because humans can't provide for themselves without a master but animals can just go out and are equipped to get by and do life as an independent.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby barbarianhorde » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm

Its really all baloney our system.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:37 pm

barbarianhorde wrote:Its really all baloney our system.



K: great, you have an analysis, now what?
what are you going to do with this analysis?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:42 pm

as I have discussed, we as a system and existing within systems,
must have an equal equation, which means our system, be it personal
or be it some collective system like the economic system we have,
must be balanced...…….. if it isn't balanced, it will eventually collapse

this idea of balance of equation must hold true for all systems..
all systems being political, economic, social, culturally...….

so for example, this massive income inequality that we have
is by its very term, unequal and that inequality is not keeping
a balance, is not holding the equation of our political and economic
system equal and thus our system is unbalanced and as with any system
that is unbalanced, unequal, it will collapse...….that is as certain
as the sun rising tomorrow morning..... the only way extreme wealth
can maintain its balance is by massive poverty and massive poverty will lead
to massive discontentment which will lead to the system collapse.....
see both the French revolution and the Russian revolution for a detailed
understanding of how this works...…..

our very democracy is damaged by this extreme wealth and poverty....
you can see this at work in "our" representatives in Washington, who
whore themselves to the highest bidder, usually right wing extremist who
are the very worst proponent of capitalism.....the balance needed in
Washington is destroyed by the buying and selling of "our" representatives.....

the way to balance in Washington and our entire political system is
with the removal of money as the primary value in our economic
and political system.....the answer to the problem that exists
in Washington is not the answer given by IQ45 and others who are
anti-democratic but in more and a whole lot more democracy in
our both our political and economic systems....

the answer isn't even in getting people to vote but
in giving people the controls of government.... turn
the government over to the people,

"When in the course of human events, it become necessary for one
people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them to
another...….."

the answer to the question of democracy is more democracy, not less...….
the real history of democracy lies not behind us, but ahead of us...
when people finally take control of their own fates, their own
future and declare that the government is,

"of the people, for the people, by the people"

this is the revolution that is to come...…….. we the people must, must
take over the government and make it our own...…..or the government
because of the imbalance created by the money meant to corrupt
government will cause enough of an unbalance equation that the government
must, must collapse...…….either we take control or have the government
collapse..... those are our choices... there isn't a third path...……..

now for those who want a greater understanding of the balance,
the equation of systems can look into this with a look at a scientific
term which I am avoiding because I want to come at this, not from a
scientific standpoint but a human viewpoint...…

the word to look up is Homeostasis: "

Which is the tendency toward a
relatively stable equilibrium between interdependent elements,
especially as maintained by physiological processes"

In other words, the equation must be kept or the system fails.....

that is the reason the solar system still functions after 4 billion years,
it is an equation, a balance between the various interdependent
elements...…. the sun and the planets maintain a balance which
keeps the system functioning.... if a planet were to go rogue,
that would unbalance the system, the solar system and the
entire solar system would become so unbalance that it would
most likely collapse...………

but one might ask, does this have anything at all to do with
what you preached about for days on end, values?

I am glad you asked...…..

values are one means that a human being maintain balance...…

values act like gravity does in a solar system...… values provide
the basis for us to maintain our balance.... it provide our
system a means to provide balance...…. values gives our
system which is an equation, the balance to maintain itself...….

an example of this is, the American system motto was for a long time,
"Truth, justice and the American way of life" but that hasn't been true
for a long time, not since money has become the primary value of America.....
the problem with money becoming a primary value is there is nothing beyond money...
it is the end, means and the only justification we have for our actions...….

there doesn't need to be justice if justice can be bought...…
justice is equality before the law.... if justice can be bought,
then there is no equality, no equality means there is no justice.....

if we judge base on money, then it isn't about whether people are
good or honest or pure or full of love or of peace...…. judgement is
about money and only money...…………...being judge on the only criteria
that matters, as in money, means we judge, our judgment is based on
only one standard and that standard is unbalanced, unequal....
so our judgements are unbalanced, unequal...……
we fail to judge correctly......

and that failure to judge correctly means we are unbalanced, unequal....

and any system that is unbalanced, unequal is going to collapse....

but values helps us correct our unequal, unbalanced judgements.....
values like love and peace and hope and justice help correct our
unbalanced and unequal judgements which is tainted by our fixation on
money...……

we each of us, have unbalanced judgements which we call
biases, myths, habits, prejudices, superstitions...…..
and every single one of us has them...…. the question is
not whether we can exists without them, no, the question becomes
how do we become who we are by a reevaluation of the indoctrinations
of our childhood...………. how do we discover the values that really and truly
are us...…….. personal balance, personal equality comes from discovering
the values that really represent who we are..... and then we take those
values into the world...……. we see the world through the lens of our values...
if our values are peaceful, loving values... that is how we see the world....
if our values are violent, hateful, mean and full of anger, that is how we see
the world...….

the question of our system being balanced, equal is really a question
of values.... for values are the means in which we judge
the many systems we are and are part of...……….. we judge our political
system, our economic system with the values that we have...….
if our value is money, we judge incorrectly the political system,
the economic system...…. if we have values that give precedence to
our higher human being, then we can better understand what political
system and what economic system really better fits the human creature...
and that criteria is finding a balanced, equal system that benefits all over
a few...………. we must find values where the emphasis is on being balanced
and equal...……… therein lies the path into the future...….

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby barbarianhorde » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:32 pm

:oops:
Last edited by barbarianhorde on Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby barbarianhorde » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 pm

I saw more of this thread and only understand now it is a private one.
Sosorry.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:56 pm

barbarianhorde wrote:I saw more of this thread and only understand now it is a private one.
Sosorry.



K: it is not a private thread..... but I expect the same level of self introspection
that I offer of myself...………. anyone may come or go as they please but here
you must be able to challenge yourself on what your values are or your idea's....

for example, you stated that "its really all baloney our system"

and I then ask, ok you have an analysis of our "system"
what are you going to do with that analysis?

your didn't really have a response..... and because I expect people to
engage, they usually just run away as you are apparently running away...

and that is fine......I don't expect people to hold themselves to the same
high standards I hold myself when engaging in philosophy...…..

what I am doing here, as philosophy is a good as anything written in
the last 500 years...….and as with any good philosophy, it is hard...
to both understand and to engage with...to do philosophy as I have
done it requires commitment and a willingness to engage honestly
with the values and myths and habits and prejudices and superstitions
that we all have.....few want to engage in a real search for the truth....
frankly, it a lot of work and can be on the painful side...….
I have changed my political thought 3 times in my lifetime and
my philosophical thought/stance more then that.....but it takes
courage to engage with oneself and few have that courage....

so it seems that this is a private thread but really it is a private thread
because people lack the courage for an "attack upon their convictions"
and so they run away.....personally, stay or leave, it doesn't changes what
I see as my essential mission which is to explore what it means to be human
and explore what are our human possibilities in the modern age...…

and if I am the only seeker, that is fine too..... I recognize that
my thoughts and my commitment to finding the answers to the
Kantian/Kropotkin questions leave me being a man apart from
society and so be it.....I thank you for your input…

I shall continue on my discovering what it means to be human in
this modern age...….

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:17 pm

as we are rapidly heading toward a totalitarian society,
I thought I should try to understand what the path to
an Authoritarian/totalitarian/dictatorship looks like.....

and it is a part of the modern problem which is the path of
least resistance.... it is easy to allow someone control over our lives
because it relieves us from needing to accept responsibility for our lives.....
if we allow someone else to tell us what to do, we don't have to
be force to become accountable for our actions... I am no longer accountable for
my actions if we live in a dictatorship/totalitarian society......they are
making me.... can be the mantra...….escaping responsibility is something,
we as human being have done since we were children, "I didn't break that lamp,
no, someone else broke that lamp, it wasn't me" was a favorite comment from
my childhood.... as the second born in a family of 5, escaping responsibility for
my actions was a theme of my childhood...…….. and a theme of
Americans today.... what, I didn't vote for that village idiot, whose presiding over
a major clusterfuck in America today...…. no, you didn't vote at all...
and thus you cannot escape your responsibility because you didn't do
anything at all...…….escaping responsibility for IQ45 is the political game
being played today in Washington and on main street in America today...…

and escaping responsibility has lead us to this path of heading toward a
totalitarian society...…… as Americans voted in IQ45, we must bear
final responsibility for the clusterfuck that is America today...….
then and only then, can we begin to find a solution to
this major crisis, maybe the greatest crisis in American history...…..

if you try to escape responsibility for IQ45, then you are not part
of the solution, you are part of the problem...…

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:39 pm

I will occasionally write out notes and leave them on the kitchen table,
as that is where I work because I don't have anyplace to set up my computer,
I found this note from a while ago, while it doesn't have anything directly to do
with my thoughts of late, it is interesting.....

the religious denies the body in favor of the soul...….
the emphasis of religion is to be "saved" which means to be
saved as a soul, not as a body..... religion ignores, avoids
a major aspect of the human experience which is our experiences
as a body.. a physical being with physical needs and wants and desires....
the problem of being human which in part is the suffering of the body
which the Buddha among others tried to offer us answers to...…..
but the problem of Buddhism is simply that suffering while a part of
human existence, is not THE aspect of human existence that the Buddha
or Buddhism makes it to be....

we suffer.... that is true, but we also love and hate and bleed
and suffer mental breakdowns and lust and eat breakfast food for dinner...
and attempting to escape suffering as the sole cause or point of human
existence doesn't answer the other questions of the human condition.....

religion can only vouch for or speak to the needs of the soul but
we humans, we are so much more then just spiritual needs...
we are biological needs... we must attend to the body
as much as we must attend to the soul...……

religion cannot answer the myriad questions of human existence...
because religion can only focus on the soul whereas philosophy
can answer many of the questions of human existence because
it is not focus on the status of the soul but it can
extend its focus to both the body and the soul...……

the religious is too narrow in its focus as if the concern with
the soul is the only question we humans must face and although the
concern with the soul is valid, it is not the only question of
human existence...…………. the questions that is of concern
in our engagement with the human condition is about both
the body AND the soul...…….

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:54 pm

I have been thinking about a way to rethink, reevaluate government
in our modern times...……….

we have "modern" government which is based on the new norms which
is that we serve the government...… when a politician see his/her constituents,
they see someone who serves them, not the politician serving the people....

we see this "modern" condition in police.... on the sides of their
car's, you see this, "To protect and serve" and today, in
modern America, the police do neither... they don't protect
and they don't serve... the modern police act as if you work for them
and they demand that you obey their every order as if a voice from
god.... try to ignore or argue with a policeman and if they don't shoot you,
they at least will arrest you for disobeying an order..... once again, we
find as THE modern crime, that of disobedience...…………
that is not protecting and serving, that is making you serve them...…

the path is see is a new path of government but a common path found
found elsewhere in life..... the new idea of government and the
future model is simple, government as customer service....
think of the government as offering customer service....
just like a business.... the government is in the business of
providing customer service...…….. the government works
for you, the customer, you don't work for the government.....

a politician elected into office is not your boss, but your
employee...… and is expected to provide customer service
to you.... what can I do to make your life better... that is the new
model of public office and of government...…. how can the government
better serve its customer, its citizens? that is the new question
of government...…

a president is not the leader of the free world.....
he/she is a employee of the citizens of the United States.....
not an employee of those who buy and sell politicians,
the Cock brothers or big pharma or any big corporation or
lobbyist but a politician who works for the American people....

If elected president, I will be your employee, not your boss...…
this is a fundamental change in how government has been done
for last 70 years or so...…….. government is and should be
engaged in customer service for its citizens.....
how can we make your life easier, your life better, your human experience
an experience that is worth living...… that is the question that must
be answered...…

Ronald Reagan was wrong on so, so many things and he was wrong
on something else.... government is not the problem, government is
the answer when it engages in the simple and basic reason for its existence,
that of engaging in customer service for its citizens.....

a president who doesn't ask, How can I make your life easier?
isn't a fit president, isn't a president I want, a president we demand.....

only by having a president who understands the proper place of government
is to serve, not to lead, but to serve it citizens...…. that is the true, proper
place of government...….. to serve the people...……

only by having not just a president, but all branches of government understand
the proper role of government is to serve the people, to engage in customer service
for its citizens......how can I/we make your life easier or simpler?

that is the true, real function of government.... to serve its customers....

and we can achieve this by electing those who truly understand this notion...…

a president cannot lead, must not lead, but a president takes his marching orders
from the people..... those that he serves...……..he gives the American people
customer service and that is the president's role...

how can I serve you? that is the question of the president, not how
do you serve me...…………… government redesigned, government
reevaluated...….government as it is supposed to be...……

government of the people, for the people, by the people.....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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