a new understanding of today, time and space.

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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:41 pm

so let us extend this idea...… the idea of engagement with the
material instead of just passive interactions with the material.....

we can say this is true of our political interactions.....

for our bottom line about human beings is we are social
creatures.... ignore or forget about this fact at your own risk.....

we are social creatures and and all we do or think about, must
reflect the basic fact we are social creature......

so, for us to become our best selfs, we must engage with
that aspect of human beings being social creatures......

and that includes, especally includes the political
part of the human being...... we are social creatures and
we best discover this aspect of ourselves in the city...

it is in this action and interaction in the city with our fellow
human beings that create or brings out the best of us......

so is the modern city today, best suited to bring out the best of us
by our interactions with our fellow citizens?

by god, no.... in fact, we have created cities that
more and more prevent interactions with our fellow citizens...
we walk around with our nose's stuck in our "smart phones",
and we hid ourselves in our houses watching bad TV shows like
the "real housewives of... whateve" we have isolated ourselves
from our fellow man, our fellow citizen and that lack of
dialogue, that lack of interaction with our fellow person,
has damaged us...…….. I am just as guilty of this as anyone else.....

I cannot grow as a human being without interacting with my fellow citizens...
it is within the dialogue and interactions with my fellow human being
that will allow me become something more... to overcome who
I am now...………. it is in the engagement with my fellow citizens,
not in my being passive, that will allow me to become who I am...…..

so, we have as our basis of being human, first of all, awareness
and secondly, engagement....we must be aware of who we are
and what we might become and we must become engage in that
prospect and engage within ourselves and with our fellow human beings...…

so, if you ask yourself, what can I do to be a better human being?
(and I ask you, has any of you ever asked yourself what can
I do to become a better human being? the sound of silence....

so to become a better human being
become aware and engage with whatever reality you are facing.....

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:10 pm

so given what we see in this modern age, what is
the most prevalent attitude we see in this most modern of times?

I would say, passivity/resignation...…. all those conspiracy
advocates have abdicated from their engagement with
the modern world and have retreated into their own
fantasy world filled with hate and conspiracies against
them...… and most of the rest, allow their time to be fill with
the minutiae of daily life.. who is picking up bobby from school
and what time is the recital tonight? and others, escape with
video games and having their noses in I-phones on such silly sites
like facebook with its fake friends...…..the modern world
is just a life long attempt to escape accountability/responsibility
for our own existence...…………….

if there was one phrase I would use for the modern world,
this is it.....

we use the tools of the modern world to escape
any type of engagement with ourselves or the world...….

this is why passive ism's and ideologies appeal to us.....
it allows us to maintain our life long attempt to
be passive in the face of life...…………

such active ism's and ideologies are frowned upon because
they force us to engage with ourselves...… communism and
anarchism is hated because it forces people to engage....
philosophy done right, forces people to engage with who they are...….
religion allows passivity because it allows god to be the
center of focus instead of where the focus should be which is
right on us...…… the philosophical sayings of, become who you are..
is disliked because it forces a person to engage with becoming who
you are...…… if taken seriously, you must engage to become who you are.....

the Socratic saying of, the unexamined life is not worth living...
becomes an act of engagement into your own life...……..
you must engage to examine your own life...….

"it is not enough to have the courage of your convictions,
you must have the courage for an attack upon your convictions"

that quote if taken seriously, forces one to become engaged with
your own life.... you cannot be passive and have the courage
for an attack upon your convictions.... that courage requires
engagement into your values...………….. to discover what
values you believe in, requires engagement...…. you cannot be
passive...……..

are you engaged in your life or are you passive?

are you becoming who you are?

are you engaging in an attack upon your convictions?

are you examining your life, your values?

if you have only one point in life, that point is simply this,
become engaged...…….in your life, in your values, in who you are...….

are you engaged?

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:30 pm

so, thinking about our "existential choice".....
in other words, the choice of values, what values are we to
follow or engage with...…..

the "existential choice" of the Christian is to follow the values
of Christ...…. but do they? I have already answered this one as no...…
because the Christian has abandon those values of Christ, of compassion,
of charity, of love of thy neighbors, of the sermon on the mount
and the parable of the good Samaritan...… all of which has been
abandon for the hypocrisy in supporting the party of treason, the GOP,
and the traitor in chief, IQ45...….

the "existential choice" we have, is what values are we going to have or use, to live
our life...………………….

are we going to engage with the values that are positive, like
love and peace and justice and equality and charity or are we going to
engage with negative values like hate, fear, greed, lust, anger...….

this discussion of values is at the heart of the discussion of who we
are as Americans...…. we might say, we support the American values
of truth, justice and the American way of life...……

if you support the right or the treason party, then your values
are of hate and anger and greed and those values that you claim
of Truth, justice and the American way of life really means,
not truth, for the GOP and traitor IQ45 is against the truth,
is against justice for justice as its heart is about equality....
justice demands that we treat everyone equally regardless
of position, wealth or power and if we don't treat everyone equally,
then we don't have justice and we clearly don't treat everyone equally
under the law, so we don't have justice and if you don't support
equality/justice, you cannot say you are a supporter of truth, justice
and the American way of life...……..

so in the end, what values do you support?
do you even know what values you support?

for to know what values one actually does support, means for one
to engage in an examination of your life and who has the courage
for such an examination?

so who are you? you are the values you engage with and the values
you act upon and the values you live your life with...…………..

your actions determine who you are and your values decide your actions...
so, what are your values?

that is the "existential choice" we have.....our values...…...

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:51 pm

we also have "existential choice" in other ways.....

but let me lay this out.....

we have as I have noted, one way, which is engagment,
active participation in our lives.... becoming who you are, is not
an passive matter, it is an active/engaged activity.....

but there is an second way of philosophy.....
and that is reflected in those who seek retirement from
the way of the world...... in other words, philosophical pursuit is
meant to teach one to retreat into one's own indifference and
passive nature.....the christian best shows us this, when he/she
retreats into contemplation of god and makes the "existential choice"
of not engaging in the world and escaping from the world........

when one says, pox on both sides, they are accepting this idea,
that best way to travel through life is by not engaging in the world.....

those who retire to the monastery or escape into the desert to
contemplate god..... are escaping from life, not engaging in life......

that is an "existential choice" and then there is a third way...
the way of using philosophy to heal.......man has a soul disease
and we use philosophy to cure him........Socrates for example,
often speaks of doctors who heal and he says that a philosopher is
a healer of souls........

so we have philosophy being one of three actions, first is engagement,
the second is retreat into oneself and the third is using philosophy as
an act of healing of one's soul or the societies soul... as it is often the
case that the reason a person is soul sick is because the society is
soul sick....... the act of personal alienation is being soul sick because
the society is sick and you have become alienated from that society
because it is sick.....how are we to heal oneself or the society?

that is the question for philosophy and philosophers........

so, which of the three possibilities do you accept,
the healing of philosophy,
the escape of philosophy or
the engagement of philosophy?

make your choice, your "existential choice"

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:17 pm

let us take a better look at these three "existential choices"

one is engagement,
two is retreat
and three is healing.....

let us at two, retreat.....

we have seen number two, retreat, practice a great deal since
the beginning of time..... I have spoken of the Christian during
the Roman era that practice retreat, escape from society....

we also have Greek philosophical practices of the Epicurean school for example,
that preached that the purpose of philosophy was to attain the happy, tranquil life, by
achieving peace and freedom from fear and the attainment of the absence of pain.....

this is done by escape into the self-sufficient life surrounded by friends...…

don't depend on society but become self sufficient both physically and mentally....

you also have such "religions" as Buddhism which proclaims that the prime
factor in the universe is suffering and we must escape from this "suffering"
by withdrawing from life and working on becoming "enlighten" or gaining peace
by becoming or having "enlightenment"... withdrawal is the key...…..

and we see this today...… the withdrawal of people from the political process....
we have less then 50 % of those eligible to vote,who actually vote.... this is
the withdrawal idea from the political "storm and stress" that we see every day.....

we see this at work every single day..... but is this "existential choice" the right choice?

let us rephrase this, what values do we want us to have, us, being you and me?

what values do we want society to have? and does withdrawal into ourselves
represent those values we have decided upon?

we rarely have answer, only questions...…...


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:19 pm

so we have the three forms of philosophy,
the engagement, the retreat and the healing aspect of philosophy....

and we have Kant's three questions and they are.....

What can I know?
what can I do?
and what can I hope for?

so, we ask, of the three forms of philosophy,
into what category do the three questions of Kant fall into?

do the Kantian questions fall into the engagement form of philosophy
or do the Kantian questions fall into the retreat form of philosophy
or do the Kantian questions fall into the healing form of philosophy?

the three Kantian questions seem not to be about retreat as they are
active questions, what can I......
and the three Kantian questions don't seem to fall into the healing form
of philosophy and so, by process of elimination, we are left with
the Kantian questions being an engagement form of philosophy.........

What can I know? Descartes answer this question with,
Cogito, ergo sum.... I think therefore I am.......
and every philosopher after that to Kant attempted to answer this
question in light of the new scientific method that had
thrown the entire question into question....... the new science had
denied the prior precedence of authority like Aristotle and the bible.....
so, that is why this new question of, what can I know, was so important.....

What can I do? in light of the new philosophy, this question is also
about engagement...…. what can I do? or what should I do? can also
be asked...……… and we have the new philosophy saying that we don't have
to follow the old ways, the old method, the old authorities.....we can find
a new path into the brave new world... thus the answer to the question of,
what can I do, or what should I do, is also about engagement.....
how do I engage with the world?

and what can I hope for? what can I hope for?
and this question is also about engagement...….
it isn't a retreat form of question and it isn't about healing,
it is about how do I hope, which is another form of engagement.....
it is engagement about the future... to what can I hope for in the future?
and can I make it happen in light of what can I do, or what should I do?

for the future is about making hope become real...…. and that is engagement.....

and searching for the truth? what form of philosophy is that?
is searching for the truth, engagement or retreat or healing???????

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:23 pm

we have three forms of philosophy,
the engagement,
the retreat
the healing.....

is that it? is that all of philosophy that we have to think about?

no, I believe that there are other forms of philosophy
we have to find those forms of philosophy, but I think
they exists...……… we might have not just three forms
of philosophy but maybe 4 or 5 or even 6 forms of philosophy.....

what other forms of philosophy might we have besides the
engagement, the retreat or the healing form of philosophy?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:58 pm

Peter Kropotkin: we have three forms of philosophy,
the engagement,
the retreat
the healing.....

is that it? is that all of philosophy that we have to think about?

no, I believe that there are other forms of philosophy
we have to find those forms of philosophy, but I think
they exists...……… we might have not just three forms
of philosophy but maybe 4 or 5 or even 6 forms of philosophy.....

what other forms of philosophy might we have besides the
engagement, the retreat or the healing form of philosophy?


K: so I asked, what other forms of philosophy might we have
besides the engagement form, the retreat form and the
healing form of philosophy?

we have another form.... this is the ancient idea.... it is a
different type of philosophy and that is the idea of philosophy
as a way of life...…….

Our modern world treats philosophy as a subject matter to be learned,
like math or history or economics... we "know" our philosophy if we can
babble speak in philosophical jargon that only other "philosophers" can
understand...….. if we know about what philosophers believed in
in certain idea's..... if we can pass a test saying that it was Plato,
who created the idea of the eternal forms and that it was Descartes
who by skepticism, came up with Cogito, ergo sum.....if we learn
philosophy as an intellectual pursuit..... with no practical applications....
that is how we learn philosophy..... as facts and figures to be remembered,
not lived, but remembered...…….

but in the ancient world, philosophy wasn't like this...…. you went
into philosophy not to remember facts like it was Plato and his
eternal forms...….. no, you went into philosophy as a way of life...…

Philosophy wasn't just to be studied, remembered and then forgotten...
no, it was to be lived..... and that is the next form of philosophy,
philosophy as lived...………. philosophy guides one into our lives....
how to live? philosophy tell us how to live...….. What are we to do?
philosophy will tell us...… what are we to hope for? by not only studying
philosophy, but by living philosophy can we be able to know what we
ought to hope for...……………..

and that is what is missing in philosophy these days, right now, it is a sterile, dead
thing that is memorized instead of being a breathing, living ideal to be
lived.... we must live our philosophy, not just turn it into some academic
subject...………….. why study philosophy if you are not able to or willing to
live your life by your philosophy...… it is just an academic exercise otherwise...…

so, we have the engagement form of philosophy...
we have the retreat form of philosophy....
we have the healing form of philosophy.....
and we have the next form of philosophy...
that to be lived form of philosophy/philosophy as a way of life......


Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:58 pm

It has been suggested that I don't put enough
emphasis upon the spiritual side of human beings....

we are spiritual beings, not material beings...
that is the message of religion anyway.....
true or not......

we need to have some spiritual engagement in order
to fulfill our need for "metaphysics"....

and we call metaphysics, that which is beyond the physical,
and that is a need of the human being, to understand
that which is beyond the physical.........

but what if, what if we take philosophy and use that
as a spiritual device........ what if we understood philosophy
as a spiritual guide............. how would that work?

it becomes a guide that tells us how we are to live our lives....
and that guide arises not from metaphysics as such, but
from the collection of all of us......... philosophy is really
just guide that arises from not just the parts, philosophers,
but from the whole, which is all of us.......

sometimes, the parts are greater then the whole...
and this is true of philosophy..... the parts of philosophy is
greater then the whole.....we can treat philosophy as
as a spiritual guide because it is the collective wisdom of
all of us...………… individual man can be deceived and
mistaken, but all of us...… we are the whole...…. like the
universe...….. the individual parts may be flawed but the
whole is wisdom incarnate...……………….

this may be another form of philosophy:
so, we have as forms of philosophy,

philosophy as an engagement into life,
philosophy as a retreat from life,
philosophy as means to heal life,
philosophy as a way of life,
now, we have philosophy as a spiritual guide to life...…

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:44 pm

possibly, just possibly we can use philosophy as
revealed text like a biblical revelation.....

the word of Descartes was Cogito, ergo sum...
and we then study this aspect like a
layperson studies biblical revelation...……..

the authority of Descartes is to use his method of
skepticism to reduce the physical world into a brief
and flashy slogan, like cogito, ergo sum...…..

and we have Nietzschians who proclaim the word of
Nietzsche as the revealed word of man...….something to
be prayed to as we study it...…….he can do no wrong...
he is infallible...….and we pray to the revealed word of Hume
as well as Kant...as we hope they lead us to the promised land
of Knowledge and wisdom...………….those philosophers have
become the voice of authority and traditions that they
fought against in their battle against the revealed word of
Aristotle and the bible...….a voice that lasts a long time,
becomes the revealed word of tradition and authority...….
something to be venerated, but not challenged and certainly not
accused of being wrong...…..for the infallible ones are never wrong...…
they are simply misquoted or misguided.... but never wrong...….

if my words last long enough, they too will become the revealed
words of tradition and authority and they too will be venerated
and prayed to as one of the infallible ones...……...sometimes,
misquoted or misguided, but never wrong...…..

Kropotkin
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Re: a new understanding of today, time and space.

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:10 pm

after work has tried to kill me over the last few days, I am back

we have our forms of philosophy:
engagement, retreat, healing, way of life and spiritual forms of philosophy...

let us look at one in particular, the philosophy form as a way of life....

in looking at philosophy, we see philosophy as an intellectual form of
thinking.....it doesn't engage with the emotions and it doesn't engage
as far as philosophy being a way of life......

and philosophy began its journey, not as a theoritical exercise that
philosophy is now, but as a way of life...... how are we to live?
and the answer would be, we would live as a philosophical life.........


the problem with philosophy today is that it doesn't provide a way of life for us.....
philosophy for us, is the dry boring facts that Descartes said this and Nietzsche
believed this and Kant meant this.......... but what about those things having
some meaning for us..... If we truly believed Nietzsche, then we should
base our lives on his principles that he laid out..... we should become the person
that Nietzsche thought we should be.......... a philosophy is meant to be lived,
not studied and analyze and compared to each other........ we must live our
philosophy, not just study it..........

when I was younger, I was a pacifist, I didn't believe in violence and
I commited myself to non-violent actions........... so I lived my life
in regards to being non-violent.......I walked away from some situations
that would have been violent, to avoid violence......

I not only had the belief, but I lived my life in support of that
belief........ as an anarchist, I did not commit any act of violence....
I lived my beliefs... not as just an intellectual exercise, but as a
way of life........ I was an anarchist, so I lived that life... I was off the grid,
didn't have a car, didn't have a bank account, didn't pay taxes.....
I engaged with my beliefs as a way of life...………..

if you have certain beliefs, then as a practical matter, you must
engage with those beliefs to the point of attempting to use those
beliefs as a platform for a way of life...………….

philosophy not as a intellectual exercise but as a belief system to
some way of life...………..it is not enough to say that Descartes
tried to create certainty as a basis for knowledge, but how does that
translate into a way of life?

how would we use each philosopher belief's to create a way of life for us?

Let us take Nietzsche, how would we use his philosophy to create a way of life?

could we use Nietzsche philosophy as a guide for a way of life?

Would we want to? is it a way of life worth living? I would say no... we
couldn't use Nietzsche's philosophy as a guide to a way of life...….

but upon reflection, there are very, very few philosophers whose
beliefs could be used as a way of life...….. Not Descartes, not Spinoza,
not Hume or Kant or Hegel, the first one that comes to mind is Kierkegaard.....
he engages us into thinking about living our life on the basis of some
philosophy...…………….the Existentialist are really the group that hold
beliefs that could be used as some basis for a way of life...….

so what beliefs do you hold that matches your way of life?

do you even live you life based on some philosophy?

is your philosophy a means to a way of life?

can you even use your philosophy as a way of life?

few can...…….

what philosopher would you used as a way of life?

Kropotkin
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