"Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:20 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:The relation between depression and intelligence, I believe, comes because the person doesn't accept that the things that bother him or her are important.

My depression begins here:
The Main Signs of Hidden Depression

Talented individuals for a need of expression
You have probably heard of famous people who have or had this problem. Pain can turn into a fuel for the emotions of these people and an inspiration as well. Did you know that Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, Bill Hicks, and Sarah Silverman have/had this problem?

They search for meaning
The truth is that we all search for a purpose in our lives, but, in depressed people, this is much more accentuated because of their high level of anxiety. They tend to be obsessed with existential questions.

Cries for help
At a specific period, we all need aid from someone else. Therefore, if you notice that your friend or partner is constantly weak and on the verge to cry, but is hesitant, offer to talk to them. And, when you establish a bond, the trust will be stronger. This is when you need to take action. Still, make sure you do not push them too much.

Irregular sleeping patterns
In depressed individuals, it is not uncommon to see them staying in bed and sleeping for a lot of hours that can easily turn into days. However, there are situations when they also battle with insomnia.

and ends here, as mine was due to an overwhelming neurological-flooring illness, which I now have under control by exercising 3: Cries for help :P

But yes.. you are right, in that once the situation is accepted, then recovery and/or healing become options, but oh what a hurdle to have to pass. :|
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:45 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:As I was being driven off to the airport bound for my rehab in Venezuela, Fixed Cross called. I told him "it begins." Maybe he didn't know what I meant, even though I had talked about it. I meant the project of health.

..and do you feel health(ier)?

Why are Venezuelans so beautiful/attractive? Is your mother beautiful and your father attractive?

Pedro I Rengel wrote:My mother, a fan of dog training, says she has become convinced that dogs do not require training, dog owners do.

In the same way, I don't think children should be taught. It is rather adults.

Do not infant innate qualities still need guiding? the terrible twos are testament to that. :lol:
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:27 pm

I sincerely believe all a child needs from adults is love and freedom. But adults have to be trained to give that.

.........

I believe excercice is key. I like long walks uphill myself. Uphill if possible.

...........

I do feel a whole lot healthier. Health maybe just meaning I am happy with what I got.

........

Lol I don't know.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:20 pm

Coming out of hippie-central and having been close to a family where the children supposedly were free to teach the parents, I report that one of them is dead, the next is a the quintessence of dishonourableness, and the third has transgendered.

You now what the problem is? Parents may claim they want the child to take control but as soon as it makes a slight move out of their comfort zone, they traumatize it with their horrified turning away. Because you see, far worse for a kid than it being forbidden stuff by harsh parents, is to be made to understand viscerally and without ever any explanation that its natural tendencies are abject.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:27 pm

Nay, I say the parents cant voluntarily set themselves up to be taught.

The best they can do is teach the child what they know to be valuable, and prepare for when the day comes that the child will enforce its teachings on them. If it happens they can be proud for being deemed personally, not just biologically, worthy of their offspring.

It is likely that the only thing a child can truly come to know is that which it was never told.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:30 pm

Lol I didn't say anything about voluntarily.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:39 pm

Parents can't avoid being force-taught though.

What, if anything, would you change from how it goes in the West now?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:34 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I sincerely believe all a child needs from adults is love and freedom. But adults have to be trained to give that.

.........

I believe excercice is key. I like long walks uphill myself. Uphill if possible.
8-[
...........

I do feel a whole lot healthier. Health maybe just meaning I am happy with what I got.

........

Lol I don't know.

Love and (only enough) freedom (to grow), which adults have been learning from their forebears for eons.. passed down from generation to generation.

I like short walks.. on a flat plane.. on a cool and cloudy day :lol: Long walks and my energy levels ain't friends Pedro. :angry-nono:

Maybe good health and happiness are one.. I myself am happy on good days, and not on bad days.. which are now thankfully lessening.

I hope I didn't make you blush with that last question. 8-[ I'm just very observational, is all..
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:57 pm

Lol you did make me blush. Inside.

I don't like generation to generation argume ts. Obviously some important things are handed down that way but also some crazy ass bullshit.

I don't mind bad days. After they are over, of course. They are good opportunities to put my health skills to the test. And they make me stronger, so good days are even more meaningful.

Lol not everyone likes the same exercice I guess. I was recommended something cardiovascular, get the heart beating, by rehab, so that's what I tried first and it turned out to be nigh miraculous. A good walk puts everything in its place for me.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:58 pm

Fixed Cross

I think first and foremost, adults need to be taught what it means to have fun again.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby anand_droog » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:44 am

MagsJ wrote:http://simpleorganicmedicine.com/unbelievable-habits-people-hidden-depression/

Unfortunately, depression, a serious psychological disorder, is affecting a larger part of the world population as the years go by. People who suffer from hidden depression tend to fight inner demons without anyone being aware.

Since we live in an age of superficiality, we do not always reveal our problems to others, but we tend to suppress them. However, this is not the solution! In order to be able to offer your help to someone who may be suffering from depression, you need to be able to recognize some of the major symptoms.

The Main Signs of Hidden Depression
Talented individuals for a need of expression
You have probably heard of famous people who have or had this problem. Pain can turn into a fuel for the emotions of these people and an inspiration as well. Did you know that Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, Bill Hicks, and Sarah Silverman have/had this problem?

They search for meaning
The truth is that we all search for a purpose in our lives, but, in depressed people, this is much more accentuated because of their high level of anxiety. They tend to be obsessed with existential questions.

Cries for help
At a specific period, we all need aid from someone else. Therefore, if you notice that your friend or partner is constantly weak and on the verge to cry, but is hesitant, offer to talk to them. And, when you establish a bond, the trust will be stronger. This is when you need to take action. Still, make sure you do not push them too much.

Irregular sleeping patterns
In depressed individuals, it is not uncommon to see them staying in bed and sleeping for a lot of hours that can easily turn into days. However, there are situations when they also battle with insomnia.


Abandonment issues
Abandonment can be really hurting. When someone important to us leaves us all of a sudden, we cannot bear the pain. In depressed people, this pain is 100 times stronger and they can start avoiding other people to prevent more abandonment.

They have their own cures
These people have their own methods to deal with their depression. This may be going to the gym regularly, listening to specific music, walking in the park, etc.

Odd eating habits
This disorder is known to impact the patient’s eating habits. Their eating pattern varies, that is, they can eat too much or eat little or no food.

They tend to be pessimistic
Intelligence seems to go hand in hand with depression, which could be considered both a blessing and a curse. These people respond strongly to anything life throws at them, no matter how small or big. But, they can be excellent when it comes to solving problems.

Fake it till you make it
In order to hide how they feel from the rest of the world, they are masters of hiding their mood and they can always fake a smile. They are afraid of what may happen if they bring their demons to the surface.

Cover-up stories are their thing
Depressed people can come up with extensive excuses for almost anything in order to move away the attention from their feelings.

They cannot calm down their mind
These people have so many thoughts because they live at high speed. They are very analytical and deep.


"They cannot calm down their mind" -- very important thing to say.
This is indeed the classic psychological disorder. Little more needs to be said. I explore the dopaminergic aspects of depression in my video.

The most insightful is the link between high noise component in neuro-activity in depression, and the symptom of minds incapable of calmness:
https://imgur.com/gallery/qkEbulK


You can see the extended derivation:
https://youtu.be/OdhBRSF6fIE?t=11m9s
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A note about Dopamine-boosting "Dope" contrasted with cannab

Postby anand_droog » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:17 pm

In the case of Tobacco, a dopaminergic vicious cycle is raging that makes the person reach for a cig. Similarly for alcohol or in general “dope” as defined below:. It is not a “I WANT this“ for my health but the mental autopilot impelling the person to reach for cigs or booze, in case of abusable substances called “dope” among which marijuana CANNOT be counted since it has a primarily Norepinephrine-boosting effect rather than dopamine boosting affect which is the necessity if a substance is abusable “dope” ... dope is addictive, weed is not dope, and weed is not addictive in the dope" type of addiction — combat dope, rather than taking a “drugs” misdefinition for an idiotic zombie policy and throwing the baby (weed) out with the bathwater (“drugs” misdefinition, dope nevertheless always smashes in). So what is dope? Whatever boosts DOPaminergic systems, is dope.

Cigs and drugs (apart from weed) can be called addictions since 1. The user does not choose of his own free will (as in marijuana) to start this substance; instead, they cig/coke addiction linked dopamine bio systems biochemically impel the user to reach out for the substance; the chemical imbalance (nicotine low etc.) neuro-electrically impels the owner’s psychosystems to reach out for more of dope, thus it is not a conscious choice. So it is not so much about “user” than (brain) ”used”. It is logical to use the term "dope" for nicotine & coca/cocaine and to cite a classic case, opiates, about which is said: “ Research suggests that stimulation of opiate receptors by morphine results in feelings of reward and activates the pleasure circuit by causing greater amounts of dopamine to be released within the nucleus accumbens.” — but not for weed, because “dope”-class drugs stimulate the dopamine systems whereas weed stimulates the functionally opposite Norepi systems; weed relaxes dopa systems towards baseline, so it is not "dope" (dopamine (stimulation) type of substance). On the other hand, heroin, cocaine/coke, and cigs are all “dope”. 2. In the long run, drugs apart from weed critically destabilize systems if they are removed from body system (whereas in weed only a (barely) tolerable inefficacy induction in systems for all systems is seen, in other drugs inc. cigs and alcohol it is major, as a general rule)*

When you quit weed… What happens is that all bodily systems come back to the “normal” (without weed) i.e. inefficient level. You have a very minor insomnia for less than a week and your immunity is rocked with a slight nasal congestion perhaps. And you feel bad for a few days. But then you reconcile with the no-weed life and grudgingly accept the relatively dreary existence which most (who dont smoke weed) undergo. It is not so colourful, that’s why you want weed as a nutrient and must legalize it. Smoking marijuana is like drinking water (nutrient input), whereas smoking cigarettes is the dfefinition of ADDICTION, comparable to throwing fuel into a fire in the brain (that can be present in non cig smokers too e.g. depression, baldness, dementia patients, ocd, people addicted to dangerous levels of nosiness and rote muggation etc). There is simply no comparison. Of course you will suffer if water is denied to you. and you will therefore seek it, that’s a logical reason why people don’t like to be cut off from marijuana. Of course you can live like a mad monk on little water, but do you want to do it? Similarly, weed users don’t want to be without weed. They can, i have tried, for 6 months, 4 months, after a decade+ of medium-heavy use of weed. But those were the most boring phases of my life, fuck it.
Point 3 qualifying marijuana as a nutrient rather than drug is a permanent increase in efficacy of critical and qualitative body systems (e.g. lungs) is induced by weed unlike with other substances.
Many people are scared of the very idea of smoking weed, seeing it as an unnatural process that exposes the lungs to harm. That idea by itself is absurd, because it is the same basic process as smelling a flower, nothing unnatural about it. Now you wouldn't want to be smelling toxic flowers, that's why, keep away from tobacco.

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdhBRSF6fIE
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:09 pm

The Taylor Manifest Anxiety Scale (TMAS) is a test of anxiety as a personality trait

I score quite high for anxiety, which is a symptom of my fatigue/fibro, of which there are a few. :P
Your score was 31 out of a possible 38.
Scores of 19 and above are indicative of excessive anxiety levels.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby anand_droog » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:22 pm

MagsJ wrote:The Taylor Manifest Anxiety Scale (TMAS) is a test of anxiety as a personality trait

I score quite high for anxiety, which is a symptom of my fatigue/fibro, of which there are a few. :P
Your score was 31 out of a possible 38.
Scores of 19 and above are indicative of excessive anxiety levels.



I am totally the opposite, close to nearly as carefree as can be


"Your score was 3 out of a possible 38.

Scores of 18 and below are indicative of normal anxiety levels."


Pedro I Rengel wrote:Fixed Cross

I think first and foremost, adults need to be taught what it means to have fun again.


true, i think the best way to have fun is to stop the shitty jobs and do real work like reforestation, animal repopulation, water cycle rebuilding etc. the main points shown here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xDN7h ... l-Bk_btOen)

Why? Because it's the right thing to do, for mental health stabilization, just plant and smoke weed and do these RIGHT things...
we can have acs, pcs etc., but independent lives, forest & common public workshops are indispensible for mental health of all and to arrest dementia and prevent cancer in people.

Why do we need to stop, move out to the rural from the urbans, and do the right thing?
We have agreed that Mental disease is linked to physical deformity (ugliness) and suboptimal function (e.g. the stunted, stressful life of master/slave disorder (manetho's disorder) and herdism disorders instead of thriving life as individuals)

So mental disorder is linked to master/slave disorder.
In that context you all know the absurdity of the mainstream.
But most do not.
Most do not understand the stunning overlap between psychopathic and "normal" behaviour.
For example the idea of peddling another man's labour -- which is "normal" in corporate culture -- is psychopathy, since it is a form of slavery and the fundamental mental disease has already been described as master/slave disorder/groupism.

People say:

The Mondalian wrote:There's a thin line between slavery and wage labour, in the second case a person sells his labour power or potential to deliver something so the commodity he sells is his labour power whereas in the first case the person himself is a commodity. Different tools of different social system.


I reply:
Not necessarily, slaves could be well-treated and paid a good amount for recreation in posh societies.

And, if you look at a computer farm where 20 employees are making a product, and the manager (rather than they themselves) sell that product in return for a majestic cut out of the profit -- that "pimping", specifically, is what i analogize with slavery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Executive_ ... ation_in...
(Selling another man's work)

It is a sort of middlemanship conducive to master/slave disorder, and it is only lightly masked by the traditional white collar excuse (i.e. that the mangement is "teaching" the professionals "something" or "brings "something" to the table") ...

For example, if you look at traditional HR management and their strict rules liek you must wear this badge (refer slave branding) , enter and exit at such times (although it is all justified by "reason" that a herd can only ever dance together), no alternative thinking policy etc., all this is better fitting into the definition "slavery" than anything sophisticated. Sad is the yuppie who takes pride in his wage slavery rather than acknowledging that they must stop and rather do logical things (mostly revolving around reforestation, workshops, true education so that people end up complete people rather than "ageing adolescents" etc.)

They reply to me:

The Mondalian wrote:but the hr or your manager still can't say what you do or not do at night and even there is an option to quit the job or terminate the contract, which is rather was not an option in classical slavery. Read wage labour capital for further explanation of wage labour and the obviously associated hatred generated in the labourers mind, of which we are often triggered by. Actually I was reading "wage labour and capital" this weekend, so found this topic so coincidentally familiar


I reply:

Fuck that book (instead, for economics, see https://drive.google.com/open?id=1A1qxs ... myRXIv1Ksg)...

Quitting the job is not an option for the most except for a few lucky ones like me.
I am not talking about classical slavery but the psychological element of slavery being the commonality
the key question is

Is this guy doing what he REALLY* wants to do?
or
Is this guy doing what his wage labour's purchasers want him to do?

I use the term slavery, you use wage labour but the question's answer is the same.

* What is what one REALLY wants to do? The moment you ask that question you leave the realm of absurdity and enter the realm of philosophy and yet 99.999% of people never even ask that question which is the 1 thing we need to remind them.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:18 pm

Got a 6! This rehab shit is magic ;).

I think fun cannot ever be about ideology or "the right thing," overanalysis, these things are anathema to fun.

Fun gives its own directions.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:24 pm

anand_droog wrote:I am totally the opposite, close to nearly as carefree as can be

"Your score was 3 out of a possible 38.
Scores of 18 and below are indicative of normal anxiety levels."

Anxiety is not always caused by external factors.. mine is triggered by internal ones, from my body being stressed the fuck out by the symptoms of a chronic illness (the body.. not being able to be regulated autonomously, but is instead reliant on constant scanning of the self in order to prioritise it's everyday bodily functioning, so having to put some/all on hold if need be), which also not surprisingly causes low mood.. as I posted prior to this.

..otherwise, my anxiety levels and mood would be great. :wink:
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby anand_droog » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:47 pm

MagsJ wrote:mine is triggered by internal ones, from my body being stressed the fuck out by the symptoms of a chronic illness (the body.. not being able to be regulated autonomously, but is instead reliant on constant scanning of the self in order to prioritise it's everyday bodily functioning, so having to put some/all on hold if need be), which also not surprisingly causes low mood..



sounds like a case weed would work wonders for. You know why, but you have a problem in the UK with pseudo-weed* being very common and medical marijuana nearly banned, right?

* ("spice" also may go by name "skunk" but that also has a different meaning i.e. good weed)
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:40 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:I don't like generation to generation argume ts. Obviously some important things are handed down that way but also some crazy ass bullshit.

Obvs not the crazy ass shit.. and nothing past it's sell by date either, so as to have lost it's usefulness in that current climate.. something older parents are not historically good at.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:47 pm

anand_droog wrote:
They cannot calm down their mind
These people have so many thoughts because they live at high speed. They are very analytical and deep.

"They cannot calm down their mind" -- very important thing to say.
This is indeed the classic psychological disorder. Little more needs to be said. I explore the dopaminergic aspects of depression in my video.

The most insightful is the link between high noise component in neuro-activity in depression, and the symptom of minds incapable of calmness:
https://imgur.com/gallery/qkEbulK


You can see the extended derivation:
https://youtu.be/OdhBRSF6fIE?t=11m9s

..for my reading and viewing pleasure, later.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:16 pm

The thing is, that it is handed down cannot be the element of distinction. So it becomes, in my case at least, useless to even mention it. It is already there anyway, good distinction based on health can handle the reaping. For instance... Fun!
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:16 am

For instance : just something extemporainous happened to me.
Just now looking at a tree where the boughs intersect. Saw a likeness of Munch's Scream in it. Really unnerving could it be that with fall coming losing its leaves, the image will fade? May be May be dreading fall and winter how odd I live in Southern California.Is this the dreaded rosarch test of the mind?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:59 am

Most recently a friend had a meltdown at home and after being taken to a hospital and interviewed by a psych it was discovered she had spent $300,000 of the family's money and mortgaged their house that was once owned.
She has been diagnosed with severe depression and something else, not sure what it is, but stayed in hospital for two weeks then sent home with meds. She blew up like the Michelan man, so they tried something else which also had adverse affects.
So now, they are recommending shock treatment as they say nothing else will help her. This treatment seems to me to be fraught with unknowables. Any opinions?
What does this do to your brain?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:22 am

anand_droog wrote:
MagsJ wrote:mine is triggered by internal ones, from my body being stressed the fuck out by the symptoms of a chronic illness (the body.. not being able to be regulated autonomously, but is instead reliant on constant scanning of the self in order to prioritise it's everyday bodily functioning, so having to put some/all on hold if need be), which also not surprisingly causes low mood..
sounds like a case weed would work wonders for. You know why, but you have a problem in the UK with pseudo-weed* being very common and medical marijuana nearly banned, right?

* ("spice" also may go by name "skunk" but that also has a different meaning i.e. good weed)

Many do use either marijuana or CBD products to help with cfs/fm symptoms, and it works.

Skunk is falling out of favour with the British weed-smoking public.. due to its almost lengthy paralysing effects, which isn't conducive to being productive. I thought spice was a different product altogether.. is it like a really strong skunk?

Medical marijuana is soon to be legalised, but licenses and such aren't even in place yet, so it could be a while.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby anand_droog » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:13 pm

there's some confusion over the terminology, skunk usually carries the meaning potent weed, but the term has also been applied (maybe wrongly) to what they call spice, a pseudo-weed claimed to contain artificial cannabinoids but that is only 1 of the broad spectrum of cannabinods available from the decarboxylated plant, and i guess too much of it, plus they add some other poisons to spice, for example:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

Dates back to the old hassansins who used to monopolize the spice trade, indeed that's where the term spice comes from, this used to be a method of assassination
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:46 pm

Pedro I Rengel wrote:The thing is, that it is handed down cannot be the element of distinction. So it becomes, in my case at least, useless to even mention it. It is already there anyway, good distinction based on health can handle the reaping. For instance... Fun!

You mean the drudgery of childhood chores and schooling, making way for more moments of fun?

That lifestyle of fun over substance, can quickly turn a kid into a young hot mess.. I've met a few along the way, and I've never envied their journey, but that could be/seems to be an innate driver on my part.

anand_droog wrote:there's some confusion over the terminology, skunk usually carries the meaning potent weed, but the term has also been applied (maybe wrongly) to what they call spice, a pseudo-weed claimed to contain artificial cannabinoids but that is only 1 of the broad spectrum of cannabinods available from the decarboxylated plant, and i guess too much of it, plus they add some other poisons to spice, for example:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

Dates back to the old hassansins who used to monopolize the spice trade, indeed that's where the term spice comes from, this used to be a method of assassination


Chicago Tribune

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Can you copy and paste the article please.. the Chicago Tribune doesn't reach this far.

Many here seem to be steering away from artificial and overly-strong weed, in favour of less paranoia/anxiety-causing strains, and also back to as a means of relaxing rather than to simply 'get high'.. which is what spice is all about, and wouldn't do someone with an anxiety-causing illness and intolerance to the artificial, any favours.
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