"Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:07 pm

lizbethrose wrote:I read some of these posts and am completely at sea...What exactly are you talking about?

I've been seeing psychiatrists for years--I've been on psychiatric drugs for years--I'm not 'sick', I just ran out of serotonin years ago... Since I was born without a mental epidermis, I react to things other people can take, with only a hiccough or two, in their mental strides, in an apparent 'abnormal' way. Sure, it's abnormal--but what's abnormal? Isn't that simply outside the 'average?'

Most of us are 'outside the average' in some way(s)--my way is just my way.

I don't see a psychiatrist for me. I see a psychiatrist for the people I have to deal with every day.

I take drugs that help me become less "different" from the people around me as well as to be able to express myself in ways that, hopefully, those people, including my psychiatrist, will try to understand and accept. At the same time, the drugs help me to understand my reactions and, again hopefully, to enable me to 'govern' my reactions so that other people understand why I've acted the way I have--or, at least, can try to accept me as I am.

"Oh, that's just Liz...She weeps for every tree that's cut down for no reason...That's just the way she is..."

My psychiatrist gives me drugs so he can understand me, as well. How else would he be able to know me, if he weren't able to give me what I need to be 'normal?'

How else would he be able to 'listen' and, through talk therapy, even begin to try to help?

Good to hear from you again. After seven years of this thread, have we come any closer to discovering the conditions of what it means to be normal?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby lizbethrose » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:30 am

Ierrellus,

I had an appointment with my psychiatrist yesterday. I asked him to not take me off my medications because I was able, during the last month, to meet a stumbling block and get through it.

It was a simple thing, but it made my insides 'jingle.' I can't describe it any other way.

But I was able to stop and understand that my insides were trembling, then gather up my control and do what I could to deal with and then change the situation. My psychiatrist and I were very proud of me.

Those of us who have been burdened with not being "normal" because of genetics--i.e., the inability to create the chemicals needed to be normal--to fall within the high points of the "normal" bell curve, are--or should be--very happy with our meds. It would be very nice if the big Pharms didn't gouge, but, then, I realize just how much neurology and the workings of the brain have advanced within even the last 20 years.

It's amazing.

Now, if we can just convince people that we're not crazy...

But that's fighting deep, deep feelings in others...isn't it?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:50 am

It could be understood on another way. May be our being out of vac in the first place causes an over/under production of certain chemicals, for instance: if one is in constant fear, the production of norepinephrine , creates a constant feedback of it, setting the stage for a bio feedback of the vicious circle kind.I guess both scenarios are possible, sometimes the emotional umbalance, other times its the hormonal unbalance that starts it.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby lizbethrose » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:57 am

So then why, Meno, be against medication that can help?
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:20 am

lizbethrose wrote:So then why, Meno, be against medication that can help?


I am not against meds generally, but needless medication of people who could benefit from other treatment options, which are foreclosed whereby : such as cognitive and analytical talk therapy, for lack of funds rather then insight.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby lizbethrose » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:07 pm

Yes, funding for psychiatric help can be difficult for most and impossible for many, especially with public psychiatric hospitals closed and with Obamacare under attack.

I really feel, however, and I've gone through both, that talk therapy alone--or drug therapy without talk therapy--doesn't work as well as a combination of both. :)
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:34 pm

lizbethrose wrote:So then why, Meno, be against medication that can help?
Drug companies do not need to publish negative results of their studies regarding a particular drug. They can then refer to just the postive result studies. A couple of researchers useod the freedom of information act to get all the results. They found that wehn looking at all studies there was a very very small, almost completely negligible postive result on average using drugs.

However, there was a very significant, iow rather large set of bad side effect results for psychotropics.

IOW it actually makes more sense to refer to the positive effects as a tiny side effect and the drugs as effective in cause bloating, dizziness, suicidal ideation, dry mouth, paranoid thoughts, serious weight gain and so on.

These drugs are good at producing problematic emotional and physical effects, and quite near null at producing positive emotional effects.

And this would include effects that inhibit the effectiveness of talk therapies.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:02 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
lizbethrose wrote:So then why, Meno, be against medication that can help?
Drug companies do not need to publish negative results of their studies regarding a particular drug. They can then refer to just the postive result studies. A couple of researchers useod the freedom of information act to get all the results. They found that wehn looking at all studies there was a very very small, almost completely negligible postive result on average using drugs.

However, there was a very significant, iow rather large set of bad side effect results for psychotropics.

IOW it actually makes more sense to refer to the positive effects as a tiny side effect and the drugs as effective in cause bloating, dizziness, suicidal ideation, dry mouth, paranoid thoughts, serious weight gain and so on.

These drugs are good at producing problematic emotional and physical effects, and quite near null at producing positive emotional effects.

And this would include effects that inhibit the effectiveness of talk therapies.

Do you have any links for those couple of researchers and their findings regarding drug studies? That was regarding psych drugs only rather than all meds right?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby lizbethrose » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:04 pm

Quite frankly, I'd rather have dry mouth, which I have, than some of the thoughts and feelings I have without meds.
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Meno_ » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:17 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
lizbethrose wrote:I read some of these posts and am completely at sea...What exactly are you talking about?

I've been seeing psychiatrists for years--I've been on psychiatric drugs for years--I'm not 'sick', I just ran out of serotonin years ago... Since I was born without a mental epidermis, I react to things other people can take, with only a hiccough or two, in their mental strides, in an apparent 'abnormal' way. Sure, it's abnormal--but what's abnormal? Isn't that simply outside the 'average?'

Most of us are 'outside the average' in some way(s)--my way is just my way.

I don't see a psychiatrist for me. I see a psychiatrist for the people I have to deal with every day.

I take drugs that help me become less "different" from the people around me as well as to be able to express myself in ways that, hopefully, those people, including my psychiatrist, will try to understand and accept. At the same time, the drugs help me to understand my reactions and, again hopefully, to enable me to 'govern' my reactions so that other people understand why I've acted the way I have--or, at least, can try to accept me as I am.

"Oh, that's just Liz...She weeps for every tree that's cut down for no reason...That's just the way she is..."

My psychiatrist gives me drugs so he can understand me, as well. How else would he be able to know me, if he weren't able to give me what I need to be 'normal?'

How else would he be able to 'listen' and, through talk therapy, even begin to try to help?

Good to hear from you again. After seven years of this thread, have we come any closer to discovering the conditions of what it means to be normal?



Reading and taking it apart, I have a question. The condition You are describing, ' do to other's involves a two fold process.

One , a stress related social anxiety, (common) coincidental with changes in brain biochemistry.

Two. Another binary: increased awareness , caused by greater intelligence. - with its own set of problems. Right? Because You are not at all an 'averige' person in terms of that.

3. A trigger: which started the process, probably in later childhood to beginning maturity, probably teen age years.

4. Some elements of rejection due to the above

5, your own primary misunderstanding over the causes of the above, leading to lifelong neural pathways altered for again a less acceptable ' way out' of the dilemma.

6. Changes in affect, causing eeffect becoming an severe rupture in the depreciating gestalt.in the overall existential being of Your Self.

7.secondary rejections by Your own family and friends.

Am I unto something?

8. Then finally panic situations as this process reveals the reality of Your Situation.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:11 pm

http://simpleorganicmedicine.com/unbeli ... epression/

Unfortunately, depression, a serious psychological disorder, is affecting a larger part of the world population as the years go by. People who suffer from hidden depression tend to fight inner demons without anyone being aware.

Since we live in an age of superficiality, we do not always reveal our problems to others, but we tend to suppress them. However, this is not the solution! In order to be able to offer your help to someone who may be suffering from depression, you need to be able to recognize some of the major symptoms.

The Main Signs of Hidden Depression
Talented individuals for a need of expression
You have probably heard of famous people who have or had this problem. Pain can turn into a fuel for the emotions of these people and an inspiration as well. Did you know that Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, Bill Hicks, and Sarah Silverman have/had this problem?

They search for meaning
The truth is that we all search for a purpose in our lives, but, in depressed people, this is much more accentuated because of their high level of anxiety. They tend to be obsessed with existential questions.

Cries for help
At a specific period, we all need aid from someone else. Therefore, if you notice that your friend or partner is constantly weak and on the verge to cry, but is hesitant, offer to talk to them. And, when you establish a bond, the trust will be stronger. This is when you need to take action. Still, make sure you do not push them too much.

Irregular sleeping patterns
In depressed individuals, it is not uncommon to see them staying in bed and sleeping for a lot of hours that can easily turn into days. However, there are situations when they also battle with insomnia.


Abandonment issues
Abandonment can be really hurting. When someone important to us leaves us all of a sudden, we cannot bear the pain. In depressed people, this pain is 100 times stronger and they can start avoiding other people to prevent more abandonment.

They have their own cures
These people have their own methods to deal with their depression. This may be going to the gym regularly, listening to specific music, walking in the park, etc.

Odd eating habits
This disorder is known to impact the patient’s eating habits. Their eating pattern varies, that is, they can eat too much or eat little or no food.

They tend to be pessimistic
Intelligence seems to go hand in hand with depression, which could be considered both a blessing and a curse. These people respond strongly to anything life throws at them, no matter how small or big. But, they can be excellent when it comes to solving problems.

Fake it till you make it
In order to hide how they feel from the rest of the world, they are masters of hiding their mood and they can always fake a smile. They are afraid of what may happen if they bring their demons to the surface.

Cover-up stories are their thing
Depressed people can come up with extensive excuses for almost anything in order to move away the attention from their feelings.

They cannot calm down their mind
These people have so many thoughts because they live at high speed. They are very analytical and deep.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:12 pm

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... telligent/

Bad News for the Highly Intelligent
Superior IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests

There are advantages to being smart. People who do well on standardized tests of intelligence—IQ tests—tend to be more successful in the classroom and the workplace. Although the reasons are not fully understood, they also tend to live longer, healthier lives, and are less likely to experience negative life events such as bankruptcy.
Now there’s some bad news for people in the right tail of the IQ bell curve. In a study just published in the journal Intelligence, Pitzer College researcher Ruth Karpinski and her colleagues emailed a survey with questions about psychological and physiological disorders to members of Mensa. A “high IQ society,” Mensa requires that its members have an IQ in the top 2 percent. For most intelligence tests, this corresponds to an IQ of about 132 or higher. (The average IQ of the general population is 100.) The survey of Mensa’s highly intelligent members found that they were more likely to suffer from a range of serious disorders.
The survey covered mood disorders (depression, dysthymia and bipolar), anxiety disorders (generalized, social and obsessive-compulsive), attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and autism. It also covered environmental allergies, asthma and autoimmune disorders. Respondents were asked to report whether they had ever been formally diagnosed with each disorder or suspected they suffered from it. With a return rate of nearly 75 percent, Karpinski and her colleagues compared the percentage of the 3,715 respondents who reported each disorder to the national average.

The biggest differences between the Mensa group and the general population were seen for mood disorders and anxiety disorders. More than a quarter (26.7 percent) of the sample reported that they had been formally diagnosed with a mood disorder, while 20 percent reported an anxiety disorder—far higher than the national averages of around 10 percent for each. The differences were smaller, but still statistically significant and practically meaningful, for most of the other disorders. The prevalence of environmental allergies was triple the national average (33 percent vs. 11 percent).
To explain their findings, Karpinski and her colleagues propose the hyper brain/hyper body theory. This theory holds that, for all of its advantages, being highly intelligent is associated with psychological and physiological “overexcitabilities,” or OEs. A concept introduced by the Polish psychiatrist and psychologist Kazimierz Dabrowski in the 1960s, an OE is an unusually intense reaction to an environmental threat or insult. This can include anything from a startling sound to confrontation with another person.
Psychological OEs include a heighted tendency to ruminate and worry, whereas physiological OEs arise from the body’s response to stress. According to the hyper brain/hyper body theory, these two types of OEs are more common in highly intelligent people and interact with each other in a “vicious cycle” to cause both psychological and physiological dysfunction. For example, a highly intelligent person may overanalyze a disapproving comment made by a boss, imagining negative outcomes that simply wouldn’t occur to someone less intelligent. That may trigger the body’s stress response, which may make the person even more anxious.
The results of this study must be interpreted cautiously because they are correlational. Showing that a disorder is more common in a sample of people with high IQs than in the general population doesn’t prove that high intelligence is the cause of the disorder. It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health.
All the same, Karpinski and her colleagues’ findings set the stage for research that promises to shed new light on the link between intelligence and health. One possibility is that associations between intelligence and health outcomes reflect pleiotropy, which occurs when a gene influences seemingly unrelated traits. There is already some evidence to suggest that this is the case. In a 2015 study, Rosalind Arden and her colleagues concluded that the association between IQ and longevity is mostly explained by genetic factors.

From a practical standpoint, this research may ultimately lead to insights about how to improve people’s psychological and physical well-being. If overexcitabilities turn out to be the mechanism underlying the IQ-health relationship, then interventions aimed at curbing these sometimes maladaptive responses may help people lead happier, healthier lives.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Destiny » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:06 am

A lot of ways for pain was invented by smart people.
I feel maybe smartness is a disease.

My friend is an anti-natalist which means that she doesn't believe human baby's should be born so thoughtlessly or maybe not at all, she says. 8ut only because what we get out of life doesn't measure up to what it does to us.
Last edited by Destiny on Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Destiny » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:14 am

5he also tried to ride a Zebra but he didn't like that.

Zebras are mean.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:19 am

Destiny wrote:5he also tried to ride a Zebra but he didn't like that.

Zebras are mean.

:lol:

I don't blame it..
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:21 am

Destiny wrote:...which means that she doesn't believe human baby's should be born so thoughtlessly or maybe not at all.

Too many births, not enough love.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Destiny » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:23 am

anand_droog wrote:PS: Geographically, the general extent of thinkers' hardship, which characterizes overly barbarian cultures, is roughly proportional to the contours of this graph:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Worl ... s-laws.png


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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Destiny » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:26 am

MagsJ wrote:
Destiny wrote:...which means that she doesn't believe human baby's should be born so thoughtlessly or maybe not at all.

Too many births, not enough love.


The only love out there is what you give.
But how do you learn when you never received.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:47 am

Destiny wrote:The only love out there is what you give.
But how do you learn when you never received.

..observe.

..learn from others who exhibit the art of emitting love.

..think of the things you do love, and apply it to living things.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:29 am

But how is a kid supposed to know to do that?

Its a thing hard to teach, but a good teacher will manage.
I did have one of those early on. But these are rare, brave people.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:35 am

The relation between depression and intelligence, I believe, comes because the person doesn't accept that the things that bother him or her are important.

The day I decided to admit they were important was the day I became free. But still I was depressed because I was so alienated from these problems from pretending for so long that they weren't important. I had to acquaint myself with them, do in little time what my body expected me to be doing the whole time. And then one day before I knew it I was happy.

Takes time and hard work.

Also I had to work on my other disease, drug addiction, which feeds so well from depression. That's just a matter of drugs affect me more deeply than none addicts, tangling that power up with avoiding pain finally triggered the addiction, where drugs are more fundamental to me than happiness or anything. So I can't use them anymore, and the way to quit them is a trip. I guess healing from both diseases came hand in hand. Leaving depression gave me the reason and quitting drugs the means.

Along the way a lot of magic and beauty which effects are still unfolding. It was all worth it. Goddamn I'm a lucky man.

Anyway, I gave my prescription for depression, but for drug addiction it's more.complicated, to do with more basic neural pathways, so you really need professionals. I say go with tecovered or recovering addicts that channel or become professionals, so AA and rehabs that use the Minnesota method.

I can say it's worth it. I even feel lucky for the pain I felt.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:40 am

As I was being driven off to the airport bound for my rehab in Venezuela, Fixed Cross called. I told him "it begins." Maybe he didn't know what I meant, even though I had talked about it. I meant the project of health.
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby MagsJ » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:But how is a kid supposed to know to do that?

Its a thing hard to teach, but a good teacher will manage.
I did have one of those early on. But these are rare, brave people.

Perhaps because of this, and so we teach ourselves by tapping into what's inherently/innately within.. I guess that is why I have felt that I am not here to teach, but to experience experiences.

Is it real if someone has to be taught the non-conceptualised?
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Re: "Mental" Illness: The Future of Treatment

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:01 pm

My mother, a fan of dog training, says she has become convinced that dogs do not require training, dog owners do.

In the same way, I don't think children should be taught. It is rather adults.
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