What exactly is "spin"?

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Re: What exactly is "spin"?

Postby Sauwelios » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:31 pm

James S Saint wrote:What they are doing is proclaiming that the observation of one item caused the other item to become identical (or reversed, depending). But it is just a mind game. In the rational world, both entities were whatever they were regardless of any observations or assessments and the discovery of one doesn't alter what they other always was, but rather allows for a double discovery because they are known to be similar (or opposite).


No James, the observation affects the quantum state of the "two items". There can be no immaculate perception, no pure mind, no ghost that sees and yet moves through things, leaving them unaffected. "Both entities" share a single quantum state, and this is changed as a whole when one observes (e.g., fires light) at one side of it, no matter the distance thereof from the opposite side.
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Re: What exactly is "spin"?

Postby James S Saint » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:17 pm

Sauwelios wrote:
James S Saint wrote:What they are doing is proclaiming that the observation of one item caused the other item to become identical (or reversed, depending). But it is just a mind game. In the rational world, both entities were whatever they were regardless of any observations or assessments and the discovery of one doesn't alter what they other always was, but rather allows for a double discovery because they are known to be similar (or opposite).


No James, the observation affects the quantum state of the "two items". There can be no immaculate perception, no pure mind, no ghost that sees and yet moves through things, leaving them unaffected. "Both entities" share a single quantum state, and this is changed as a whole when one observes (e.g., fires light) at one side of it, no matter the distance thereof from the opposite side.

No Sauwelios, Observation changes nothing but what you believe, your internal "equation", not what is there. Existence does not depend upon your illusions, quite the opposite. Your dreams are real, but not reality.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
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Re: What exactly is "spin"?

Postby Sauwelios » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:45 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Sauwelios wrote:
James S Saint wrote:What they are doing is proclaiming that the observation of one item caused the other item to become identical (or reversed, depending). But it is just a mind game. In the rational world, both entities were whatever they were regardless of any observations or assessments and the discovery of one doesn't alter what they other always was, but rather allows for a double discovery because they are known to be similar (or opposite).


No James, the observation affects the quantum state of the "two items". There can be no immaculate perception, no pure mind, no ghost that sees and yet moves through things, leaving them unaffected. "Both entities" share a single quantum state, and this is changed as a whole when one observes (e.g., fires light) at one side of it, no matter the distance thereof from the opposite side.

No Sauwelios, Observation changes nothing but what you believe, your internal "equation", not what is there. Existence does not depend upon your illusions, quite the opposite. Your dreams are real, but not reality.


Dear James, of course the act of observation changes the object of observation. In order for us to see something, for example, light needs to reflect from it into our eyes. If the object of observation is something sub-atomic, like light itself, that collision ("reflection") will have a significant impact on it. (Of course, in that case we cannot see it with our naked eyes. This doesn't affect the logic of what I just said in the slightest.)
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Re: What exactly is "spin"?

Postby James S Saint » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:28 am

Sauwelios wrote: In order for us to see something, for example, light needs to reflect from it into our eyes. If the object of observation is something sub-atomic, like light itself, that collision ("reflection") will have a significant impact on it. (Of course, in that case we cannot see it with our naked eyes. This doesn't affect the logic of what I just said in the slightest.)

And if our eyes were not there, the same light would have reflected off of it anyway. What happened to the light after it left the object, certainly doesn't change the object. Or do you believe in reverse time causation? What happens tomorrow is what causes today?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: What exactly is "spin"?

Postby Sauwelios » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:15 am

James S Saint wrote:
Sauwelios wrote: In order for us to see something, for example, light needs to reflect from it into our eyes. If the object of observation is something sub-atomic, like light itself, that collision ("reflection") will have a significant impact on it. (Of course, in that case we cannot see it with our naked eyes. This doesn't affect the logic of what I just said in the slightest.)

And if our eyes were not there, the same light would have reflected off of it anyway. What happened to the light after it left the object, certainly doesn't change the object. Or do you believe in reverse time causation? What happens tomorrow is what causes today?


Sure, if our eyes were not there, the same light would have reflected off the object anyway--unless we shone the light on it in order to see it with our eyes. I never claimed that what happens to the light after it leaves the object changes the object. What I said was that the object's collision with the light changes the object, if only on a quantum level.

A visual observation requires that light be reflected or emitted by an object. That reflection or emission is part of the observation: for our eyes can detect only light, not the (indirect) sources of that light. A refrigerator, for instance, does not fit into our eyes, and yet we can see it!
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Re: What exactly is "spin"?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue May 22, 2018 10:59 am

Back to the OP.

What we've learned:

Spin is the way energy is tied together in mass.

At the time, there were some objections, most notably from PhysBang. I wonder if there are still those here competent enough to either object or agree.
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Re: What exactly is "spin"?

Postby Pneumatic-Coma » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:00 am

A "Spin" is something Fox & friends put onto everything, every important and serious matter of topic.
((Our object of desire isn't to change current belief systems or complicate already convoluted streams of information; we're not trying to even prove ourselves in anyway. We're just human beings similar to yourself. Not superior, the same. Ancestors of the lost world. The conflicts of beliefs you face in your world, are not only the conflict of self yet life, we cannot compel such conflicts to other's will for any self-benefit. The true goal reached here is there is nothing we can say nor do that can convince anyone else of what they don't know for themselves already. And, when the time calls, and you are ready, the barriers of awareness will expand and such confirmed information will be easily perceived, and known to them! Allow them to seek and find out when they are prepared. All will arrive to light in no time.) Ego sum via veritas et vita;Amesha Spenta;Vohu Mano; Allow all things measurable, microbial and astronomical to remain infinite, unchanged and arrive to light.
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