if you distinctly measure the size of something, then youve measured its size at one tiny point in time.
if you measure the rate at which it changes, then you will know where it is in the future. if we measure that the universe has a force expanding it outward that is greater than the forces that are contracting it inward, then it ends up that the big bang was in fact the arbitrary starting point and the end is a slow cold expanding freeze as all hydrogen is turned into heavier, non-star creating elements.
if gravity is strong enough, then it will all eventually collapse back in, at which point we are back at a place that resembles the unknown starting point, and therefore is also unknown.
this is the typically belief of somebody who lives in this universe. imagine someday that what we observe as the passing of time is nothing more than a physical process just like magnetism and gravity.
would you today, say that if there is a god, he is uncontrollably affected by gravity? of course not. and by the same logic he would not be affeted by time. he would not indicate his position by saying that today it is 5000bc ill go make a universe, he would say something that we couldnt possibly understand.
saying something is infinite is our way of coping with those things that are greater that us and impossible to understand
Lol This has been fun, but my original aim of writing this was to prove that time CANNOT be infinite. All your views are well appreciated and have been taken into account for future revisions of my theory, but FutureMan, just like on the ‘Peace of Mind’ post, you are thinking inside the box. This is what I was thinking: Ask yourself, what is before and after the Universe, or what is it expanding into?
Well, an expanse does not continue forever but ok, I will accept that and also accept that the universe is expanding constantly (rather than in fits and spurts).
By your definitions it is ok to put time on a graph when we refer to the past as it has been measured, which is good enough for our graph.
What I suspect you are suggesting now is that an hour tomorrow will not be the same length as an hour yesterday. However, I do not see how this gets you any closer to time being or not being infinite.
Oxford, Ok, If an expanse was not infinite and had a set measurement, then it would not be expanding now would it. I hate to use definitions but:
Expand- to increase the extent, number, volume, or scope of
It has no definite end, where the beginning is unknown but any point may be a starting point at which infinite is equal on both sides.
And it does get me closer to proving time is not infinite BECAUSE an hour yesterday IS the same amount of time as an hour WILL BE tomorrow( In your own words).
Nothing begins. nothing ends, all is, and always will be.
do you realise that the big bang is happening in this very moment right now? Not millions of years ‘out of reach’ as you think. Your consciousness can alter the ‘outcome’ of the big bang! Fantasy I hear you laugh!!! l o l.
We think we live in the “moment” between past and future. But how big is this moment? It is valueless. it has to be. (if you do give it a value I can instantly half your value so you know your value is wrong)
So one moment of time = a ‘time’ value of ZERO
How many moments have gone past since the “start” ? billions? so what are billions of zeros? STILL ZERO!
Time doesn’t exist. Is’s all about state of consciousness, and for us humans, consciousness is a very limited thing (at the moment).
Referring to one of my other threads, the moment between past and future(present) is a value of 0/some number; some number/0 where the number can never reach zero nor one.
Oxford, I honestly can’t figure a way to explain what I am trying to say in a way you would understand it, Time is not infinite because if it were, each event which occurs would collide with othr events and disrupt the content of the event creating a paradoxial dejavu where there are no definite origins of events. If someone understands this, please explain it better.
I can honestly say i don’t understand that logic at all. the X and Y axis of any graph are infinite. yet the coordinates on the plane are still perfectly meaningful. if time is infinite, then there is no boundary, and so nothing has any absolute age. Everything has a perfectly well defined age if measured from an arbitrary zero point.
Say that time IS infinite.
We measure the time it takes to do anything
If the thing we do(event) takes place in time,
then that event becomes infinite.
So, unless infinite has a set value, the events which had already
began and ended will evntually intervene with every event of the past/future, considering the present is infinitessimal.
Consider: Infinite + Infinite = Infinite, not 2infinite
This is the exact reason that the concept of zero wasn’t realized until the Roman Empire. Zero and Infinite are in fact one in the same.
a form of calculable measurement, which, despite its ability to represent “infinity” (the biggest thrill in mathematics, everything) serves its most “useful purpose” as it provides a perspective of the finite.
Yet the very “stuff” it seeks to measure appeals more to a sense of the infinite than the finite. Just as in mathematics, increments can be divided into infinity, amounts added, multiplied (and subtracted) thus, there is no rational basis to perceive time otherwise.
To answer concerns about dejavus and temporal overlaps:
I can’t!
No, I can suggest that there is more to “events” than we perceive (which is pretty fair and basic), and that there is no reason to omit the possibility that an infinite number of time-space continuums, and events within them, various combinations and “causal” chains exist.
time is so mysterious!!!
Imagine we are really all just this one person (God, for example) and the illusion of time is the only thing separating us from truly being One??? through this fabric of apparent separation which places us in different places and lifetimes? We are able to be WE instead of the lonely i?
In this playful sense, this is how we answer the problem of God and man, with the answer that God IS man. With the divisive element of “time,” the spirit energy is able to compartmentalise itself so as to participate in thiS
[size=200]JOYOUS CELEBRATION[/size]
Time is a finite concept of measurement allowing past, present, and a projected future. That there may be something infinite cannot include time. Time is just a man made convention of convenience, as is our concept of space.
Of course, humans function in both time and space and it seem’s to work reasonably well as long as we don’t take it too seriously. Infinity, as a concept, isn’t ‘testable’, and belong’s to metaphysics. Enter the mystery.
Evidence: the scientific facts used in the film “Forever Young”.
Explaination: bodily functions cease to run, body remains the same decades later - for the body during the decades, time doesn’t exist. Please don’t argue that the time exists in the period as zero/frozen, not much point.
as in it started infinte years ago and will end in infinite years but today is observed to ‘pass’ at a rate of one second per second?
by comapring it to another event whos time is used as the standard? like an episode of the simpsons took exactly 12,004 swings of the pendulum aka seconds?
This was a pointless thread for many people cannot comprehend infinite… Oh well, maybe someday that concept will be fully understood. I hope I have offended some of you with this post, because I felt like SOME of you need a reality check that all we can do is question life, no one has an exact answer for anything because within an infinite Univers there are infinite possibilities. All we are able to do is come up with the closest possible ‘assumption’ to fit our theories.
What bearing does the end of something have on the beginning of it ?
Cannot something be finite at one end and infinite at the other end ?
Something which is infinite does not necessarily have to be infinite at both ends - although it can be - just one end
And so for example many infinite sets in maths will start with a specific number at one end then extend to infinity
