Why is it Okay and Morally Justified to Own other people?

That’s one way of looking at it, from that perspective, of an unwillingness to depart with that which is dearest to the heart… there are plenty who misuse the ownership of their children though, and place them in the most precarious of situations, so humans always naturally owning their children doesn’t always work out, for the child.

You ever seen when a female, attempts to bond with another female’s baby? that’s really crossing a line… unless you’re family, and even then, there are limits.

Giving children over to the negative and harmful aspects of society is never great nor good, but the aspect of study and worship is… as opposed to ignorance and inquisitions.

Perhaps having never felt owned, “Westerners” and some other “Nations” do not harbour the concept and feeling of ownership, making it alien to us, as a notion… unless we individually want it to be so, towards those that we are enamoured of and by.

We do give ourselves up… to nature, to our whims, to our ideals… they are ours, without having to say so, just as children are to their parents.

Yes but we didn’t create ourselves entirely by ourselves - lets say the mother owns a portion of you originally because of the labour she did.
Self-ownership is thus generally approached as an ideal rather than as a given, and as such it works to inspire capitalism.
Interesting combination is capitalism and monotheism; self-ownership and giving oneself away to god under one umbrella. Protestantism is a natural result.
Beyond that, Liberty was invented as self-ownership including experience in the spiritual domain. Under the god Liberty, magic can be practiced without master; and I think it requires actual magic to truly possess oneself.

I believe that few people truly want Independence, which is the path to self-ownership.

Most people enjoy to be coddled, and adult-children, from birth to gravestone.

What does an Independent self-owned individual look like, on paper, to you? I’m thinking… nomadic, Berber-esque types, but I don’t think you mean that type at all.

How do you go about owning yourself Urwrong? Do you say/think to yourself ‘own you baby, own you’? as opposed to ‘own it’?

It is morally justified to pwn someone, but not, certainly not, to own someone.

Ownership is directly linked to sense-of-self, self-identity, morality, responsibility, and causality. If you do not, cannot, or will not think of yourself as an “agent of causality”, then you cannot “own” yourself either. And, as it appears, many people do not in fact “own” themselves. Rather, as I mentioned, people are Owned, not Owners. Race doesn’t matter, although it is part of the equation. Nor does gender. People are ‘owed’ to forces, or people, ‘higher’ than themselves. You can use God and religion as primary examples.

“Your life is not your own.” Is it? Yes? No? How do you go about ‘gaining’ ownership of yourself, except, to liberate yourself from those you are owned by? Owed to?

Obligated to.

Do you not owe your life to your biological parents?

As to “gaining ownership via independence”, Independence means something different for everybody, and with accordance to time, culture, setting, society, etc. Independence refers to Freedom. Can you live “outside” the system? Can you live within it? Some people can do both, some can do neither.

Be like the wind… set yourself free… even from yourself.

Owned by? Owed to? Sounds like cattle and arranged marriages, if you ask me… things that aren’t applicable to many.

Having obligations is par for the course, on our journey to fulfilling our goals and aims… but obligated to objectives not to other people.

Sure… but I weren’t best-pleased about all the chores there were to do.

That’s very subjective, and would be dependent on many factors, but yes… some could do one, the other, both, or neither. I’d say that the majority of people live as free as is possible, within the security of the confines of the State that they reside in.

So you admit your life is owed-to, by your biological parents, as-is everybody else ever born…

But you, and everybody else, also doesn’t like the thought of “being owned”.

It doesn’t change the fact.

Parents own their biological children. You are the ‘property’ of your mother, before and after your birth, curdled in the womb. If you deny this, as is the trend of this thread and conversation, then you must also concede the notion that, you do not “own yourself”, nor does a pregnant woman “own” the child in her womb. Not her property. Your self, is not your property.

So whose is it?

Another possibility: most people don’t know that they are ‘owned’, or, who owns them.

A nation issues a draft for war. You are called to war. Can you deny it? Can you resist? What will happen? Does your nation, own you? Do you have “human rights”, without your nation?

Consider these questions rhetorical, because I fear I already know the answers.

Do I own my father? Do children own their parents?
Do I own my enemy? my boss?
Do I own my neighbor? my co-workers? (do they own me since I am their coworker?)
Do I own my ex-wife? (does she own me, her ex-husband?
Does your spouse own you since you are her ex-husband?
Do you own your doctor? Or does she own you since you are HER patient?

I mean, jeez, an entire thread based on equivocation.

And here you are, equivocating that people do NOT own themselves, and parents do NOT own their biological children.

Don’t blame me for your lack of philosophy. You COULD answer simple questions. But you choose not to. Because you know the answers and their consequences.

Just admit it already, you believe that you own yourself, but in doing so, you admit Responsibility, and hence, admit Morality.

You admit that people are beholden to each other, responsible for each other. Maybe there are areas in your own life that you don’t want to uncover, through the course of dialogue here.

I just had the weirdest experience: I went down to MY bank and told them I owned it and wanted to sell.
They seemed ignorant of the power of certain possessive pronouns.

Lol

Our life being owed to our parents, does not mean they own us.

They and we belong to each other, in an exclusive symbiotic relationship of responsibility and dependency, respectively.

Human Rights are maintained by our State/our Nation, in relation to the individual or Nation against the world at large, for whom drafting-up should be voluntary… but hopefully an unnecessary endeavour to ever have to undertake.

Do Nations own citizens? Like I’ve said before… I’ve never felt owned, apart from by the (mandatory) education system here, after which head-hunting and other such tactics could be a type of laying claim to people, ergo an attempt at ‘ownership’.

Like I stated before (I don’t know if everyone has ‘ignored’me)

Custodianship (also guardianship) always implies rights for those in custody or being guarded! Ownership does not. We are custodians and guardians of ourselves and others; That implies that we have rights and they have rights!

Also like I stated before: do we own a lamp? That would make this discussion slightly more interesting.

So you admit you don’t know how ownership works? Good, we’re making progress…

Yeah, well, when you have a child someday, I’ll take him/her away from you, because it’s not yours it’s mine. Then we’ll review this thread, at that time, and see how serious you really are?

I’ve already addressed this. You are simply denying self-ownership, which goes against common sense.

Do you, or do you not, have control over your body, bodily functions, limbs, range of motion? If yes, then yes.

I was walking by my elementary school and I saw my first grade teacher. She waved to me from my first grade classrroom, wonderful she is still teaching there.
I told her I owned her and she seemed very disappointed I was still a poor student.
So, I walked by the cemetery to visit the grave of my best friend Jack. His family found me digging there and claimed I did not own Jack or Jack’s body.
People just don’t understand ownership though I have to admit Jack was also their brother and son. I suggested we could be co-owners and I could have the body on weekends but they just looked at me funny. His sister, Jainey, is a crush of mine. I tried to carry her out of the cemetery, but her family stopped me and called the cops. They put me in jail. I told them this was my town and since the jail was part of my town I owned it and asked them to leave
Then I was assigned a court appointed psychiatrist.

We’re just playing word games here.

What about being possessed in your body by spirits?

Oh that’s right? You don’t know shit.

At best you have rights. You certainly don’t have any ownership!

Unfortunately I’ve learned that first hand with most of my former friends.
They are willing to sacrifice everything to remain trivial slaves.

They hate freedom far wore than they hate even themselves.

It’s apparent from the reactions. When pushed into it, forced into a corner, how do they react?

Trolling and word-games, Ecmandu and KT both just did it, admitted to it.

KT, probably smart enough to understand, knows the difference between Ownership and not, yet will not apply it to self-ownership, because if he does, and he knows this trap, then his mentality is finished. He has to admit to a series of contradictions, that he is unwilling to admit to. He’s aware of the double-standard, but for whatever personal reasons, cannot or will not confront them.

It’s as easy as ‘abortion’. If you believe women have the “Right” to “their own body”, then is this not significant of self-ownership, that “you own your own body” and not “evil-white-man”? This is the case. The Liberal-Left pretend that Abortion is an “act of rebellion”, “against patriarchy”, and thus, against these presumptions of ownership of self. But this is the opposite premise, a false preclusion. If women, liberal-leftists, do “own their bodies”, own-themselves, then they, at least, should be proud of the fact? More ready to admit to it? More ready to demonstrate it, and argue on its behalf?

Yet, when confronted, they balk, and play word-games, as Ecmandu and KT do here. Why? Because admitting to it, is going to get them in trouble. They’ll be stuck in a position, that, once you admit to “self-ownership”, then you admit to a position of Morality and Self-Responsibility, by which, they are immediately responsible for their choices, consequences, and situations throughout life, leading up to, during, and afterward, especially in a case of Abortion, or any such “liberal-left” situation in life. Including “Racism”. Including most modern-post-modern social, cultural, and political problems.

When you admit to self-ownership, then you immediately revoke your Victim-Card, and that’s the issue and cause for Resentiment here. Ecmandu and KT, probably feel this, but can’t explain it, and won’t admit to it logically.

In essence, I’d agree with you, self-hatred is then amplified toward a hatred against freedom/liberty/individuality/independence. Self-hatred amplified, and then pointed-outward at boogymen, demons, and whatever conjured scapegoat-enemy.