The weird thing is, Sokrates wasn’t even puny.
Well, civilizations rise and fall eh, whaddaya gonna do?
Maybe we’ll finally get our shit together but not without going through hell first.
Nope, democracy and freedom arose independently multiple times in the west, for example the Vikings had them, and they had little-no knowledge of Athens and Rome.
And it was other Europeans who were most able and interested in emulating and developing Athenian and Roman civilization, not Non-Europeans.
Double nope back at you:
-We were not talking about freedom and democracy but about mathematics and logic, if you’ll recall:
Much of mathematics and formal logic is Greek of origin. That said, India has done much work on it as well, as have the Arabs. Illustrating that, “Algebra” is the name of Arab thinker Al Jabr.
-Concerning freedom and individual liberty and democracy, this is something which has existed in very many cultures, to exemplary degrees in Native American tribes. In fact it is thought that the first American caucuses were inspired by native tribe meetings.
That’s not a fact, it’s hotly contested in academia, look into it.
Democracy and freedom is largely a European thing.
As for formal logic and math, while some Non-Europeans like Arabs and Hindians made major contributions to them, none more so than Europeans.
to be sure, whatever social behavior and patterns of social behavior that made early man capable of cooperative behavior within relatively large groups of people, must have existed before anything written was ever discovered/recovered about the concept of ‘democracy’ in text. so the instance of democracy arises and exists before it is understood… if that makes any sense. once it becomes a logocentric concept in philosophical text, it becomes subject to the historical and ideological bias of the writer as well as the innumerable obstacles of language.
but essentially democracy should be thought of as a system feature that permits individuals cooperating in some form of material production, distribution and consumption, a greater range of direct decision making power. that’s basically what we’re talking about here. the fundamental feature.
wanna know the greatest thing capitalism ever did? imma tell u. revolutionizing digital communications. know why that’s so great? because it set up the superstructure necessary for a strong global democracy to exist… a great and magnificent network of decisions. really all it is. we could do it, too, if muhfuckas would stop rioting and assemble proper under my command.
Yes, well said.
Which is why the Greeks limited it to people who could provide means to back up their wishes, by the way.
Finally he listens.
I recommend “1491”, which overthrows a lot of what was thought by Europeans about the Americas before they arrived. As Promethean posts illustrates, it shouldnt logically be so hotly contested, as it is simply an opportunistic system that is perfectly natural except when you have extraordinary large populations. I think thats the issue here.
The philosophical concept of it may indeed be European. So is are the concepts of Marxism, the concept of fascism, of course - a lot of concepts. But what is really practiced?
Scandinavia, the Netherlands as well as Greece are traditionally individualistic, democracy-prone… France, Germany, Spain, Italy, are not.
Concepts like individual liberty arose in Europes great naval powers.
Per capita certainly, if we go by continents. But without the Arabs we would not even have the concept of zero. We wouldn’t have been able to surpass the Greeks.
This was the limit to the Greek mathematical mind, they almost thad the zero on various occasions, or so my mathematical source (my father) says, but never explicitly formulated it. That in itself is probably one of the best indicators of their nature.
1491 is a great book.
Much of what was first thought about NAs was based on the experience of NA communities that had already been radically devastated by the various diseases brought over. When you lose large numbers of a group, parenting gets messed up, mediation and other social mitigation practices get messed up, inter group violence and distrust increase, violence increases and so on. Then ideas about the race involved and the cultures involved are treated as timeless and objective evaluations.
Poaching elephants led to rogue young male elephants commiting all sorts of not seen before violence, both against other elephants and, get this, the raping of rhinos. IOW social mammal societies if there is a systematic set of deaths and casualties WILL lead to degeneration.
Then the racists or animal species haters can draw conclusions that, not coincidentally, make them feel better about themselves.
Yes, and it is just so entirely logical.
But people who have not suffered such humiliation simply never know, and can not really be made to understand, what it does.
Very nice that you read 1491 as well. Its an amazing book, with many unthinkable scenes of beauty. Also the notion of how the prairies were created and cultivated, including that scene of a boat on the Hudson with the two banks in flames - and the invention of the wheel in South America even though they had no use for it and only used it in what look to be toys - many quite mind boggling stories.
From here:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=195835
Good riddance. Id hate to be associated with a scumbag like this. And to be fair I already thought his influence was bad in 2017, when he was gloating over how the US is so far superior to Europe, how fucked Europe is compared to the US. We can see just ow accurate he was there.
But such people as him give Trump a bad name. They’re just as bad as the black supremacists who now intensify racial hatred in the world.
Possibly it is a matter of time before my own work is deleted from youtube on account of not being sufficiently hateful of my ancestry, and Im not defending the owners of these sites here, I remember youtube before it was bought by google, you could actually get views if you weren’t an idiot then. But still. Molyneux now laments that due to his channel having been deleted, “the worlds largest philosophical discussion ever has been silenced”… Okey. That comment alone warrants in retrospect the destruction of his channel.
Fixed cross, I hate to be the bearer of bad news:
Trump is an asshole. Of course he grabbed the pussies of 14 year olds and raped his wife, but it’s even worse.
There was a peaceful protest in front of the White House … he decided to gas all of them! But even more, after gassing them, he crossed the street and stood in front of a church, held the Bible in his hand upside down (inverted cross) and had a photo op.
Now, I hate Christians! But I would NEVER do that shit!
“held the Bible in his hand upside down”
Are you sure it was upside down?
Oh snap shit just got deep, bro. That couldn’t have been by accident.
The seals have been broken… the antichrist has come. But why does the antichrist have to have hair like that? Seriously, orange hair? Shirley the antichrist would be a brunette, no?
I was the Anti-Christ shithead.
Trump is just a douche. He thinks he’s profound in that way that Hollywood celebrities think they are profound by doing the circle to forefinger (the all seeing eye) while the other three fingers make 666.
If it was up to these morons, they’d all be sent to hell. I’m the one fucking being right now in existence that states, “you’re too mentally fucking retarded to be sent to hell.”
Are you really going to fuck with me?
Even the Obama administration called the presidential car, “the beast”.
Whenever two leftos get in a conversation, we are in tikki-tokki-land within a few lines thrown back and forth.
Dudes.
Get yours acts together.
On the right, you get a completely homogenized ball of dull agreement. No act to get together, it is all already together, but not in a place it wants to be.
Trump teargassed protesters who came onto the lawn of the White House threatening to kill him. Oh no, his hair is orange too. Thats literally it. Go away from politics, you lack all consciousness of reality and proportion, and all psychological and historical knowledge of Human-kind.
You are, as they say, too good for this world.
I know people need some sliver of hope.
That’s why they think the conservative and liberal agendas are opposed. That’s why they think trump is an outsider rescuer of them.
These people don’t know basic facts. These people really believe that elections in the US have mattered in the last 30 years! If trumps was selected and not elected, they’d lose all hope!
I’m here to tell you, straight forward, as long as you think these are elections where your votes are EVER counted, you are the problem, not the solution!
Fact:
Trump is the first president ever who is not overtly backed by the other side of the aisle in times of crisis.
You actually believe the drama over the facts. Presidents are selected because of the drama!
Bush: lost the electoral college but was elected by the Supreme Court on a split decision
Obama: bush 2.0 the first black president
Trump: douchebag president, lost by 2 million popular votes. (When basically nobody votes anymore)
You’re into the drama, not the facts. That’s what they want you to think!
I’m going to tell you trumps ‘accomplishments’…
He deregulated US industry
He hired Supreme Court justices who will overturn roe v. Wade
He made tax loopholes for the extremely rich national law.
His only promise to the American people was to “build the wall”
Let’s think about his ONLY campaign promise!!!
When he took office, he had the ENTIRE Congress with a republican majority!! Without even trying, he could have passed to build that wall no matter how many people were pissed off - he didn’t. This means he doesn’t give a fuck about to he wall!
He claims to have 10 billion dollars! The wall only costs 5 billion!! He could have paid for the wall out of his own pocket and STILL been one of the 1000 richest people on earth!! Again, he doesn’t give a fuck!
Donald Trump has ZERO excuse for not building that wall! His ONLY campaign promise (besides sending Hilary to prison for life). LOL