Goerge Floyed Death

9 unarmed blacks killed by police in 2019.
Sure, they were unarmed, so excessive force was probably used in some of these cases.
But just because excessive force was used, doesn’t mean all or some of them weren’t up to no good.
Of course by definition excessive force is never justified, that’s not my point.

Hypothetical:
Let’s say there exists a city.
In this city there exists two races, reds and greens.
The city managed to miraculously eradicate all racism centuries ago.
The red race has a population of 1 million and the green race 1 million.
Does this mean they have an equal number of unarmed slayings by police?
Not necessarily.
The reds are 10 times more likely to be killed when unarmed by police than the greens.
If there’s no racism, how could this be, happenstance, luck of the draw?

While the reds commit the same amount of felonies as the greens, they commit 10 times more petty crimes.
Because they commit 10 times more petty crimes, this brings them into more contact with police, and while most police are decent, some are psychopaths, some are rookies and some are just incompetent, more likely to use excessive force (in)deliberately, so because they have 10 times more contact with police, they’re 10 times more likely to have excessive forced used against them on occasion, and that’s why reds are 10 times more likely to be killed when unarmed by police than greens.

So that’s my point, blacks commit more felonies, and more petty crimes than whites.
And this may account for all, or most of the disparity.
Of those 9 unarmed killings in 2019, how many of them were completely innocent?

To put it another way, if you shoplifted everyday for years, your odds of having excessive force used against you by police would dramatically rise, doesn’t matter what color you or the police are.
The same is true of a population group, doesn’t matter if they’re white, brown or black, doesn’t matter if they’re Christians, Muslims, Buddhists or scientologists, if they commit 10 times more petty crime (or more unarmed felonies for that matter), they can expect to be slain more often by police.

If you swim in the ocean, you’re more likely to be eaten by a shark, it’s nothing personal.

Some thoughts: 1) if you are a black shoplifter (or just regular customer) the chances that you will be suspected of shoplifting are much higher. So this is going to change the statistics you are basing your judgments of blacks on. Likewise drug related crimes and other crimes. The suspicion and expectation will create results that will see to confirm preconceptions. 2)nThen you have to look at convictions, which also play a role in the final statistics. Here again race plays against blacks. Also class. Your class affects how the courts and prosecutors look at you, along with race.

You are extremely skeptical of corona statistics. Well crime statistics come out of a skewed system also. They are not the result of unbiased focus on certain categories of suspects and prosecutors are not unbiased in whom they charge and for what crimes and the courts are not unbiased. This produces statistics that seem to confirm the correctness of bias. Blacks tend to be poorer so weaker representation and class biases will also affect statistics.

Analogy: Not all Pitbulls bite, in fact most don’t, especially if they’re taken good care of, still they’re much more likely to bite than say Labrador Retrievers.
Consequently we should be more apprehensive when dealing with Pitbulls than Labs.

Let’s say you have a family, and you want a family friendly dog.
You go to a pet store and two dogs are available, one a Pitbull the other a Lab.
You ask the shopkeeper for information about the dogs and their behavior.
He says both dogs have been well behaved in his care and the previous owners said they never had any trouble with them.
Still you err on the side of caution and purchase the Lab.

Even when information about them as individuals is equal, the Lab is still much less likely to bite than the Pitbull, only if this particular Lab has a history of biting or other bad behavior does it make more sense to purchase the Pitbull if safety is paramount.
And if there’s little-no information about them as individuals, then it really makes sense to go with the Lab.

In the same way, if a black man and white man show up at a job interview with equal qualifications it may make more sense to go with the white man if there’s only one position available from a strictly economic standpoint, altho you may want to go with the black guy over the white guy sometimes if you feel sorry for them and you want to give them a chance.

When a black man and white man have equal qualifications, the white man may still be a bit more likely to outperform the black man.
Perhaps employers are finding this from experience and sharing this info with other employers.

The most prominent cult in the US is Trump and his followers, at least for now.

Secondly, I am not interested in settling or visiting US anytime soon so it is irrelevant to me whether I am welcome there or not.

With love
Sanjay

I think blacks are more likely to be arrested for, charged with and convicted of crimes mostly because they commit more crimes.
If police surveil black communities and individuals more, it’s because they’re more crime-prone.
You think it’s mostly down to confirmation bias.

It’s unfortunate we don’t have equal representation under the law.
Still I think poor people are more likely to be arrested for, charged with and convicted of blue collar crimes at least in part because they’re more desperate and undisciplined, not merely because they lack representation.

Look here:

https://newobserveronline.com/povertycrime-excuse-smashed/

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12552-016-9164-y

It appears race is much more positively correlated with crime than poverty.

It’s odd, that out of all the African-American deaths-by-cop, that BLM chose his to effect change through, now… rather than any of the other previous deaths.

On the news last week, an African-American female who is over here studying in the UK, was being interviewed regarding her views on the Floyd/BLM situation… considering that she was so far away from home. She divulged that she’d arrived a few months ago, and that she was glad that she was here so that she could aid the BLM cause along, here, in the UK… she was then joined by another African-American female, and they then proceeded to walk off, under a shared umbrella.

Now isn’t that a coincidence? that her and some others, just happened to be over here, to help.

From what I’ve read so far… BLM UK are stipulating that if you are not black (so are of any other ethnicity) they acknowledge that support, but they would appreciate it if it was silent back-ground-crowd support and nothing more. I guess no-one wants to be propped up during a race riot, by the very same people that are said to be suppressing you.

Anti BLM groups are now in Hyde Park looking for a showdown, and now the police are in between them and the crowd of young non-black ethnic-minority male park-goers that were cycling or walking in the park… a growing demographic that are finding that this cause doesn’t pertain to them… or not in this way at least, but are being caught up in the skirmishes… a demographic that are only there to spectate, like some I know have been doing, and quickly leave in disbelief at the scenes they have witnessed. The police want everyone dispersed by 5, or…

Sky News on standby.

What is North America about? what was it about?

I find that Marxism/Socialism is about undermining society and societal happiness through instant gratification, and that Conservatism doesn’t factor in the general quality of life for citizens or long-term societal happiness for the individual. I witness both those, here.

Magsj, what’s your thoughts on all this?

Well I never…

I had said that America needed to sort this/itself, out… and sooner rather than later, and it seems it is… deliberately-invoked or otherwise.

My thoughts… to use this time of open dialogue wisely and thoroughly, so as to make for a more content and fairer existence for US citizens, of all backgrounds.

History has proven, over millennia, that in-fighting only weakens a nation and makes it ripe for invasion/conquering, from within as well as without… as has been globally witnessed in coups, terror-attacks, and political/religious biases dictating societal matters rather than those matters being dictated by local need or necessity.

Which actually means arrests, convinctions, law enforcement focus correlates with increased crime statistics. Hell my white father got more trouble with police and border guards because he had a beard. Further it’s as if races are all on neutral turf in experience. Their not. As said even a single act of sexual abuse can carry through a family for generations, messing up parenting, education, resistance to drug abuse and more. WW1 damaged several generation of my family through the effects on two soldiers. Imagine what having every single person in an earlier generation being a slave did. And once they were not slaves it is not as they were suddenly on equal footing in relation to law enforcement, government services, employment, health care, education for the next 100 years. The drug war was specifically started to focus on blacks. Not because they were using more drugs, but to focus on them. The messages the main culture aimed at people who ALL had backgrounds of intense trauma, long standing systematic trauma - iow not a single trauma or single family member. As one example amongst many. The naivte with which people look at other people’s lives.

You wouldn’t trust those statistics if it was related to corona. But suddenly goverment and other sources are trustworthy. And also even statistics where variables are controlled, as I critique here above.

We are talking about approx. 6 generations since slavery. Now my family was damaged forward in time from 1919, each generation. Now these generations included family members who did not suffer trauma nor did their parents. IOW the family had untainted interpersonal resources. Nevertheless the trauma carried down to the present and perhaps beyond. We are talking about the entire black population going through massive trauma, family splits, rape, torture and, well, ongoing being treated like animals and property and not, for the most part educated at all. AFter the war they came into the wider culture with no clear culture, hated and feared, and dealing with a mass of PTSD…all of them. So violence goes through the families. People have massive problems with intimacy, parenting, relationship violence, substance abuse in general, all of which is going to trickle down generation to generation, with no secondary family that is not also dealing with the aftermath of the experience. Just this is going to have radical effects down through time even if the wider society treated these people like everyone else.

But even 100 years later they could get beaten by a crown in the street for talkign to a white women, they got poorer access to education and health care and employment,
all of which makes it harder to eliminate the damage cause by the past.

I am fucking sick of it. I am gloominary.

It is so fucking facile and ignorant this plucking out of statistics that are biased, not accounting for all sorts of variables and inhumane

fucking inhuman in the lack of understanding.

You know… I get pissed off about this shit!

95% of black homicides are committed by blacks!

That leaves 5% for ALL other distinct races. Whites are the least likely people to kill blacks. Whites kill way more whites than blacks. Mexicans kill the most blacks from that 5%!!!

Sure, this situation with floyd was fucked up! It’s a joke that “black lives matter” occurred from it.

Juat as i expected, the black movement in slowly dying out. Having said that it cannot be said that it was totally unsuccessful. It has forced a lot of whites to participate in it and those whites who did not participate or oppose it, are feeling unconfortable. I would cosider this as success though a mild one.

These types of confrontations, which have centiries old roots, do not settle easily and certainly not with these kind of protests. The agitaion should be so strong that it can violently shake the whole system. That is not happening. Secondly, what this agitation is seriously lacking is a strong leadership, under which the participants of the movenment can unite and move in a specific direction. This movement needs a firebrand leader like Malcolm X, if Amarican people remember him. Martin Luther King’s type of leadership is not warranted here.

As we know that sometimes oprations are necessary to get the patient cured permanentaly. In the same way, sometimes the seed of violance, both of mental and physical, has to be planted in order to get the fruits of peace.

with love,
sanjay

Same Zinnat… I knew it would fizzle out within weeks, but effecting some change along the way… I hope it’s enough change to appease the parts of society that are affected by the negative historical effects of an ill-merged past between two different peoples and three continents.

Enough of this baggage!

Karpel, Baldwin is fantastic.

I read Another Country last summer, thats not entirely unlike Dostoyevski.
Lol only now, retrospecting on the quality of the literary meat, I realize that it is even though he speaks about Dostoyevski much in the book.

I tried Cleaver but it is boring, too self-conscious, too political, too deliberately provocative.

This guy doesn’t get it at all. Plus he’s pretty much famous for being a racist provocateur. The shit isn’t about George Floyd or the cop in Minneapolis. It’s about the state performing extrajudicial killings of Americans in the streets pretty much every day. It’s about a demographic that makes up a small % of the population making up the vast majority of prison inmates. If you grew up in a poor neighborhood then you know exactly what it’s like to interact with the police. If you didn’t, then you probably have a completely different view. The weirdest shit I’ve ever seen in my life is when the “small govt good, taxation is theft” crowd bends over backwards to get their heads far enough up their assess to somehow not see that the police are actual govt agents doing actual shitty things to people every day, all the time as a matter of routine.

Police Brutality Matters… a better slogan, no…?

A74105B8-FE0D-4BDA-AB90-BE97C7C3C557.jpeg1159×1167 160 KB

Well that’s one of many issues. Redlining, gerrymandering, constantly shifting school districts, prosecutorial discretion resulting in substantially stiffer punishments for the same crimes, I could go on and on. There are a lot of issues in America that disproportionately harm black people here. Summing it up to a few stats about who kills who or making the whole narrative about Floyd or a handful of others is just the kind of simplification that prevents people from thinking about the overall reality of the matter and that keeps us further away from equality in society. I mean black people couldn’t borrow money from banks 60 years ago. So there’s no inherited wealth. I committed a crime 100x worse than what a black guy did and he say in jail for 2 years trying to avoid conviction on a charge that would have only put him away for a year in the 1st place. Couldn’t make bail and public defenders are shit. I talked them down from 10 to 99 years to no time and never went to jail. It happens all the time. Poor neighborhoods are disproportionately policed. An officer can tell someone to clear out of some place and let them walk away, or he can arrest them for loitering. He can give a traffic violator a warning, or a ticket that costs $ and raises insurance rates. It goes one way for some and the other way for others and either we’re looking at the biggest coincidence ever or there’s a pattern that runs along racial lines.

Mr. Reasonable,

I know everything you’re saying is true. Let me ask you this:

Do you want “hell equality”?

Because I guarantee you that every black person alive and who has ever lived on this globe would thank their lucky stars that the worst thing in life is being raped in prison for selling marajauna.

I’ve been to hell dude. I’m white. The shit blacks are complaining about is a paid fucking spa vacation to me. You’re pretty fucking ignorant dude. Yes. What happens to blacks is fucked up.

But do you really want hell equality on earth?

You’re arrogant and glib about shit you don’t understand.

You’re basically asking me, “should I put the blacks through what me as a white person has been through (for the sake of racial equality)”

My answer is a resounding “no”

You’re not even smart enough to realize the magnitude of not just my audience, but the global audience.

Don’t get me wrong, the Nixon administration declared a war on blacks, that continues to this day.

But you’re taunting me here. With your fucking, “I think blacks suffer more than whites in America”

Maybe I should send YOU to hell so you can see?!?! Right?!?! I don’t even have to have anyone lay a finger on you, I don’t even have to meet you. Am I going to do this to you? No.

I’m just saying… learn your fucking audience.

Mr. Reasonable.

I don’t give a shit if you don’t believe me. But man are you fucking cocky!

viewtopic.php?p=2769664#p2769664