## Ethics applied to Economics

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

To supplement the previous post, I found this choice bit of information: https://institute.coop/news/were-teamin ... te-program

This is a good practical response to the issue of who manages these worker co-ops? For if they didn’t have wise management their failure rate would be higher than that of businesses structured in more conventional ways – i.e., in 19th-century ways. Actually these co-op start-ups [as far as I know[ have the same failure rate as do those with the ole, outmoded structure.

I shall be doing further research to learn the truth about the successes of these organizations that put democracy into living action.
Here is the mission of this program at Rutgers School of Management:

Geared toward managers in large firms, small businesses, cooperatives, and non-profits, the program will show participants how to create a values-driven, participatory work environment by:
• Improving transparency when sharing information
• Empowering employees in decision-making
• Developing a management style that fosters participation
• Engaging employees and promoting their growth
• Building organizational citizenship and a high-involvement organization
They apply Ethics, bring it to life.
And, as a bonus, here is yet another good link:
https://institute.coop/resources/employ ... n-solution

What say you?

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

Cooperative companies work only if all are of a like mind. Cooperatives were the beginning of social business. Pack/herd but leaders will manipulate to be the one. If you really look at cooperates there is leaders that take more. Very very few are truly equal. Humanity is herd. Leaders are still needed and followers give to leaders. I respect what you are proposing and hope that eventually evolution heads there but. It will not occur within enough generations that we will see it. Evolution needs many generations in most cases, not all but, most. We actually have evolved enough to remove many prejudices. We know and accept that the Amazon tribes and the other what we call primitive peoples are humans and equal to a point. We protect their primitive life. Why????? Have you examined this question at all? Why do the governments and elites protect these tribes? What do they have that we do not?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.

Kriswest
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### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

Kriswest wrote:Cooperative companies work only if all are of a like mind.

That is exactly what I said in the early pages of the STRUCTURE OF ETHICS booklet!:!: See especially page 6.

sMany of the members subscribe to the Newsletter of the Institute for Workplace Democracy this helps.

It is true, Kris, what you say about some few getting paid more than the others who work in the same shop,office, or warehouse. This is because the company had to hire a manager with special unique skills who could bargain for more pay.

The aborigines of Brazil are part of the ecosystem of the Amazon Rain Forest. They help maintain the forest. The forest serves as "the lungs of the planet." It consumes the Carbon Dioxide out of the atmosphere, and in turn, provides the planet's air with pure Oxygen for us to breathe.

An ignorant Climate-Crisis denier (a friend of Donald Trump - another one) is cutting down the rain forest; he has the power to do it. Under-informed or misinformed people voted him in.
Can anyone think of a more stupid thing to do? Well ...maybe going to war with Iran. Or establishing bases in The Middle East. ...Or stealing Iraqi sweet oil instead of putting full-blast efforts in researching and implementing alternative clean, green energy, such as solar, wind, geothermal and tidal power. [Ironically, George W. put solar panels on the roof of his own home but he went into The Middle East anyway -- for the expansion of the American empire.

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 800
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

Given the current economic system, called Private Enterprise, it is ethical to recommend and encourage any new small business starting up to organize itself as a workers co-op, one which engages in democracy-at-work, and is structured so that each new hire is automatically a part-owner. What the highest-paid employee (staff member) is compensated shall not exceed, say, six times what the lowest-paid worker gets in pay ...if there are more than one dozen worker-owners in the company.

If less than one dozen, they should all start out with equal compensation, and then, - if the proposal to do so is justifiable (is sensible and practical) - vote as a group to give a specific individual more pay than the rest get.

What, though, is 'Production for Use'
Can anyone explain it for us here in simple terms? In doing so, tell us the advantages, if any, and the disadvantages if any.

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 800
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

While I was doing research on UBI, came upon this very-interesting column reporting on its progress. You may want to check it out, to learn what is going on in Stockton, California.
See" https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/10/ ... nt/599152/

As you know, UBI stands for Universal Basic Income. Experiments with it are currently going on in Finland and (last I heard, still continuing) in Toronto, Canada.

From all accounts, people who receive the grants still continue to work at jobs.

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

Earlier I wrote that Rutgers University School of Business is training managers (who intend to run operations in worker-owned cooperatives) in these skills:

• Improving transparency when sharing information;

• Empowering employees in decision-making;

• Developing a management style that fosters participation;

• Engaging employees and promoting their growth;

• Building organizational citizenship and a high-involvement organization..

Worker cooperatives exist in an array of industries, from
retail trades to engineering and manufacturing to administrative services and various professional services such as, for example, in child care and housekeeping service businesses.

There is equity in these businesses structured as worker co-operatives. According
to my research, I can accuratelyreport that in the year 2019 the average entry wage for such workers was$19.67 per hour. Along with this pay they received, on average, a year-end bonus of$8200.

Most remarkable of all was this fact: The highest-paid worker in the company (or corporation) earned at the most only double what the lowest-paid worker was paid!! The Compensation Ratio is only 2 to 1.
Even if it were 6 to 1, this would be amazing!

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 800
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

This is all happening under Capitalism.

Note this N.Y. Times column with the creative title: Who needs a boss?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/maga ... -boss.html

I would suggest that every business from now on that starts up structure itself as a workers-cooperative, one that is worker owned.

This is truly Ethics applied to economics

What say you?

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

ON UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME

What do you think of a UBI plan for the United States that would give every adult American citizen $700 a month, at the outset? The wealthy would get this too so the plan would be fair; although they wouldn’t experience the benefit of it by the grant they get but rather through the new secure society in which they eventually would live. This money would come from “a sovereign wealth fund” based upon productivity in the country. As productivity increases, this fund will grow. The original fund, set up by the federal government, comprising less than 3 trillion dollars, is to be invested in a safe manner, as are university endowment funds today. The administration would consult those who now manage such college and university endowment funds as to how to do it right. We know the government can come up with such money for we have witnessed the Senate voting such amounts into existence in the year 2020, calling it a “Relief Fund” or “Rescue Package.” It is based upon a “trickle-up” theory, just as the national sovereign wealth would be. {After all, “trickle-down” has been tried for over 100 years and we note – as a majority of Economists will attest - it has not worked.} See this discussion of UBI at this site: https://smartasset.com/financial-adviso ... sic-income Note also that productivity steadily increases as more dull, routine, boring jobs are currently being replaced by robots and automation. Many, many programmers in the USA today are employed writing code that robotizes work currently being done on assembly lines of all sorts. Check out some of the historical background: the story of how the USA almost got a bill passed initiating a UBI. It happened in 1969. Read up on it: https://www.alternet.org/2016/03/how-ri ... do-it-now/ It is desirable that everyone have a job that they enjoy doing, however the nature of the capitalist economy, "free enterprise" is the euphemism for it, is to suffer contradictions in its functioning, viz., busts that follow the booms - periodic depressions and job loss. We are living through a depression now. We need a solution to this chaos. Could a UBI plan be that solution? Your views on this topic? For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS [NEW] http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities: Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course thinkdr Thinker Posts: 800 Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm ### Re: Ethics applied to Economics Check out this thoughtful article which is relevant to Ethics when it is applied to economic matters. It continues to offer rational arguments for a reform which is especially needed in these times of high unemployment in the United States: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/ ... sic-income After digesting its contents, and following the points it makes, did this discussion serve to add to your convictions regarding the concept of Universal Basic Income? Or did it fail to be persuasive in making its case? What is your evaluation of the article? Share with us your views ...surely you have some. For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS [NEW] http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities: Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course thinkdr Thinker Posts: 800 Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm ### Re: Ethics applied to Economics What do you think of vaccines, foods, etc. being knowingly toxic, and yet still being brought to market to be sold to the general public? Q. Where’s the ethics in food and medicine manufacturing? A. Not much. The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ Nobilis Est Ira Leonis | Om Surya Devaay namah | Manus justa nardus MagsJ The Londonist: a chic geek Posts: 19872 Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:59 pm Location: London, NC1 … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … …Suryaloka.. the sun ### Re: Ethics applied to Economics thinkdr wrote:Check out this thoughtful article which is relevant to Ethics when it is applied to economic matters. It continues to offer rational arguments for a reform which is especially needed in these times of high unemployment in the United States: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/ ... sic-income After digesting its contents, and following the points it makes, did this discussion serve to add to your convictions regarding the concept of Universal Basic Income? Or did it fail to be persuasive in making its case? What is your evaluation of the article? Share with us your views ...surely you have some.$700 a month is a lifeline, but not much. General relief in California is slightly less and is merely a conduit to crime, as recipients sell the tickets for drugs and alcohol. Thrv$2000 dollar a month proposed by the House is more realistic a measure, across the board, with the hope that eventually this social infusion of money will lift into a modicum of general relief. But can the nation afford it, and will it not increase indolence by eliminating the motivation to change among those who have been effected chronically by generations of social dependence? These questions remain unanswered, and current statistics do not support a notable change within groups if people who have been permanently changed with the aid of general relief, or dole. A subscriptive social support , augmenting education and development here in California, changed ' welfare' into 'workfare' where the conditional receipt of financial help has to accompany attempts by those who receive the benefits, to train for jobs and eventually attain employable status and succeed to hold down a job. So far the program has less then favorable reviews. Meno_ ILP Legend Posts: 6679 Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am Location: Mysterium Tremendum ### Re: Ethics applied to Economics MagsJ wrote:Q. Where’s the ethics in food and medicine manufacturing? A. Not much. Greetings, Mags Thank you for responding. What you write argues for the case that it is important that more people learn what Ethics is about. and what "ethics" means. The concepts taught in The Structure of Ethics book need to be more-widely disseminated. One day, when such lessons are taught in primary school, in language appropriate for that age group, ethical insight will improve, and will spread over the planet. Let's start by setting a good example. For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS [NEW] http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018) http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities: Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course thinkdr Thinker Posts: 800 Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm ### Re: Ethics applied to Economics Meno_ wrote: thinkdr wrote:Check out this thoughtful article which is relevant to Ethics when it is applied to economic matters. It continues to offer rational arguments for a reform which is especially needed in these times of high unemployment in the United States: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/ ... sic-income A$700 a month is a lifeline, but not much. General relief in California is slightly less and is merely a conduit to crime, as recipients sell the tickets for drugs and alcohol. Thrv\$2000 dollar a month proposed by the House is more realistic a measure, across the board, with the hope that eventually this social infusion of money will lift into a modicum of general relief.

But can the nation afford it, and will it not increase indolence by eliminating the motivation to change among those who have been effected chronically by generations of social dependence?

[/quote
Greetings, Meno

Nice to hear from you again.

Two professors of Economics at M.I.T., a husband-and-wife team, along with a Harvard Professor, last year won The Nobel Prize in Economics for their experimental field work in ending poverty around the globe.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/ ... 11994.html

They showed that giving a Basic Income to workers did not tend to make them indolent. Their testing of hypotheses and experimental fieldwork approach earned them this treasured Prize.

To that extent the question is becoming answered.

Work gives meaning to life ..especially if it is useful work; and human beings need meaning - else suicide often results when no meaning is perceived. Merely getting some financial security will not keep people from their projects, some of which will add value to the society in which they live. If most are indolent and even one Musk, Einstein, Bezos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos comes along, the economic value gained is well worth it.

What say you?

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
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Posts: 800
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

thinkdr wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Q. Where’s the ethics in food and medicine manufacturing?

A. Not much.

Greetings, Mags

Thank you for responding.
What you write argues for the case that it is important that more people learn what Ethics is about. and what "ethics" means. The concepts taught in The Structure of Ethics book need to be more-widely disseminated. One day, when such lessons are taught in primary school, in language appropriate for that age group, ethical insight will improve, and will spread over the planet. Let's start by setting a good example.

So you think that simply setting a good example will work/is the answer?

What have you based that on?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite.. - MagsJ

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get back that time, and I may need it for something at some point in time.. Wait, What! - MagsJ

Nobilis Est Ira Leonis | Om Surya Devaay namah | Manus justa nardus

MagsJ
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### Re: Ethics applied to Economics

MagsJ wrote:Where's the ethics in food and medicine manufacturing?

A. Not much.

The way that I cope with the problem is I avoid eating manufactured food -- with the exception of some ice-cream, and also pasta coated with marinara sauce - no added seasonings - along with steamed vegetables, and with an egg that is hardboiled in the steamer pot.
Other than that I eat only fruit and veggies that are fresh, raw, whole, and preferably organically grown. Thus I in effect boycott the entire manufactured-'food' industry.

As to medicines, I take only a couple of generics which aetna Insurance [a banker or middleman outfit] provides for me at zero copay (since they appreciate that I am so healthy; and that I am giving them my government Medicare money each month: I help them make lots of profit while costing them virtually no expense, since due to not getting sick I never make a claim.

I switched to a plant-based diet when I was 18. Now, on October 11, I will be 90. I feel as spry as when I was 50. [For further details about the healthy lifestyle see the websites of the National Health Association and that of Life Extention Magazine.]

Agreeing with you that people who lack ethics - predators and con-artists - get into the so-called "health-care" business, my approach to dealing with them is to "give them the business," i.e., to have nothing to do with them and to endorse exposing their cheating practices. As an activist for Social Justice I strive to keep myself well-informed as to what is going on. To this end I listen to the Thom Hartmann broadcast (or read his website; listen to CNN and to MSNBC. It is an Ethical Truth that people learn Ethics more by witnessing a good example of it than they do by reading up on it.

Therefore, let's make some systemic changes by encouraging the spread of Worker Co-ops as a source of new jobs. In those, workers are the owners of the business. They tend to be ethical ...and they pay better!!

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW]

THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish

BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
thinkdr
Thinker

Posts: 800
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:05 pm

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