Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

The idea of Hell as eternal punishment is attributed to Augustine. I agree with Felix that the so-called Fall was a fall into self consciousness. The characters in the Eden story are metaphors for evolving parts of the human psyche. Serpent=the primitive urges; Eve=the urging for action; Adam=action taken. The tripartite psyche aligns with Paul MacLean’s theory of brain evolution. Our myths cannot be divorced from our evolutionary experience, which is replayed at every development from a fertilized egg to an adult. For Paul MacLean’s theory see Carl Sagan’s “The Dragons of Eden.”

For an archetypal myth to persist, as does the story of the Fall, it must refer to a basic human experience.

In an ideal world of abundant plenty there would be no sin… or kept to a minimal at least, and unnecessary want of individual hoarding of resource only serves to worsen the situation… trace history back to that point, and you’ve got your answer.

I think the OP may be eluding that it started with the revering of gods… designed to coerce its citizens into a false state of contentment, because god’s got this for you… they’ve got this, so sit back, relax, and simply pray to god for whatever you need, and if you don’t get it you’ve obviously been sinning.

Apparently. The myth of the Fall appears elsewhere in world mythology. For example…

and in Plato’s Phaedrus

Move on to what, when we still follow genocidal, homophobic and misogynous gods, whose religions still do so much harm to so many?

Gnostic Christianity has evolved while Christians are stuck in the idol worship of a satanic god.

Which religion is better.

Those who idol worship genocide or those who recognize that only a satanic god would be as vile as Yahweh, and only a satanic religion would idol worship such a vile god?

Regards
DL

Logos always trumps mythos.

You are talking of Jung and Freud’s Father Complex. Finding our father Complex is what Jesus called being born again.

Finding your Father Complex changes your whole paradigm.

Regards
DL

The fall, that Christians also call a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan.

If they did not follow Adam’s lead, then they would derail god’s plan.

IOW, Christians are screwed up in their ideology and thinking, coming and going.

Regards
DL

To call graduating from school a fall is not the bright thing to do.

Jews call it an elevation and Original Virtue, while Christians stupidly call getting educated evil and Original Sin.

Which do you see in Eden?

Regards
DL

The parable can be very confusing if one has no idea what it is about. The tendency for most is to interpret it literally, which gives one very little insight into what it is actually about.

The biggest error people make when trying to interpret this parable is they assume it is referring to historical events. The parable is concerned with certain historical events, but is better thought of as a prophecy. On the history side, you have the appearance of humans, and the judgement against them: “Thou is dust, and to dust thou shalt return.” On the prophecy side, they would have a chance to appeal this judgement.

The Tree of Knowledge’s purpose was to help humans understand themselves, so they would be able to defend themselves, once they finally got their day in court. The Tree of Knowledge is the wisdom of the serpent; she is given partial authority on earth, in order to impart this wisdom to humanity. After awhile, she is given full authority on Earth. This would be the beginning of a grace period for all of humanity, and provide humans with an opportunity to raise themselves up from the warring, homicidal beast from which they had evolved.

Once this grace period ends, the Destroyer rises up with her indictment against humanity. This indictment is also known as the Tree of Life, because by their answer to it, humanity is either redeemed, or condemned. Theoretically, if humans had chosen to remain ignorant, they would never have had to face the Court. The warning not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge is the prediction of this prophecy that humans would not be successful in their appeal, and therefore should try to postpone their court date indefinitely, by remaining ignorant. But we all know this simply wasn’t possible. The basic nature of humans is and has always been to reach higher and higher.

But these two myths, which may or may not apply, aren’t as simply put or cute as the Adam story.

And outside of the statement of the author of the Britannica article – unless I fail to understand it – the Adapa myth is not exactly a story of the fall. However, “Possible parallels and connections [between Adapa and Adam] include similarity in names, including the possible connection of both the same word root; both myths include a test involving the eating of purportedly deadly food; and both are summoned before god to answer for their transgressions.” - Wiki - so who’s whomming who, so to ask? Who influenced who, Adapa, or Adam? or was the notion in general circulation in Mesopotamia.

Abraham came out of Sumer, where Adapa was a god. William Albright, in his book From Stone Age to Christiamity, speaks of Adapa in the 7th c. B.C.E, right around when the book of Genesis was taking shape.

But speaking from the stone age and the fall. Was the civilization of Sumer & Mesopotamia a fall from that age? It’s touted as a great advancement from the stone age. Looking back from there, from developed civilization, I could understand that the hunter and gathering age looked like a time of ‘Paradise,’ a time of low population and lots of freely available food sources.

Okay, enough of that. I’m speaking of things we can’t know with any degree of confidence.

But ya know, I have an axe to grind with this fall and original sin thing. I was raised with it, along with free will. When I came to think of it I had to ask : Where was my free will in being born with original sin? I had no will in it, free or otherwise.

Eventually I concluded it to be a bunch of bunkum ; that it was just trying to explain and excuse why we’re human primates ; or brainy naked apes ; and no fall happened. If anything, we’ve evolved from “fallen” or less advanced times and human development, for hundreds of thousand years ; from neanderthals and before, onward, up to not as “fallen” today.

:smiley: The point to understand is, religion is not to blame for war, genocide, and persecution + you name it - when there is an axe murder, do you blame the axe…? Humans are to blame. We would have genocided, warred and persecuted anyway, it’s in our nature. Religion just squirted a little nitro into the tank.

Is religion outdated and an increasingly negative influence…? Yes. Will we outgrow it…? Tough question - no, unless we seriously revamp worldwide education systems and eliminate some of the more disasterous symptoms of poverty and inequality.

We are almost there already if you believe the stats.

Education, via the U.N. that are promoting a universalist religions and schools, is already moving forward.

The more fascist religions like Christianity and Islam are slowing this evolution to a better way of thinking.

Fight those vile religions when you can.

Regards
DL

That’s good news. I’d be happy if we taught critical thinking and behavioural/cognitive sciences, evolutionary theory and enough unwhitewashed real-world history to stamp out any romantic notions of the past. And screened for psychopaths and sub80IQ indicators at birth, or before.

I prefer a stronger comparative religion course so that fewer will stupidly believe in some supernatural genocidal prick like Yahweh while thinking him good.

The sooner all recognize that all religions are, are adult fairy tales, the sooner they will mature.

Regards
DL

Sin has always existed, but there are some bright patches in existence, fabricating a slow humanity healing effort to uplift the planet’s frequency, and thunder jolt boost us into a more loving family.

Then pure fantasy always exists too, where wishes always come true and, even if not in the most literal of ways, gives us joy.

I like Satan more than Yahweh, because Satan opens the door to the higher mysteries, fights really hard, and never forgives. With Yahweh, the door is always open, even if we did all of the wrong things.

True achievement is only open with Satan.

And I’m not saying to be evil or join a cult or something like that. I’m just saying that self empowerment is the 1st key.

Adult fairy tales written by flat-earthers.

The lying preachers will not like you. Good.

You are think8ng like a Jew. They have an Original Virtue interpretation of Eden where both man and god win, while the Christian take makes both god and man losers.

Strange that people could be forced to believe such an idiotic view, but not when you remember the inquisition that imposed that fools belief system.

Regards
DL

Yes, and literally believed in by adult children who refuse to grow up.

Regards
DL

Re: weird facts
Postby MagsJ » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 21:51
To be superstitious is a sin, in the Catholic church.

Although the above isn’t actually taught as fact, it is evident throughout the RC faith as true, by the lack of its presence within the teachings of the faith.

Is it a case of… eliminating religious superstition, eliminating sin?

I do not see it that way as superstition and supernatural thinking must be in play to believe in their super powered Yahweh.

For sure it is missing the mark which is how scriptures describe sin. A poor definition but it is what it is.

Regards
DL