Why do men like to kill men?

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Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:42 pm

Why do men like to kill men?

At times of war, many men smile in the anticipation of killing another man. Sons love to anticipate killing as well. Killing is the epitome of personal drama and that is why we love it. Fathers love to see it in their children, and the children are eager to emulate their parents.

We just love war, and it we do not collectively stop loving it, it looks like we will go extinct. We are just to god damned powerful for this little spaceship earth.

Nice that modern humans, as a species we are so nice that we mostly do economic war. Not so nice when we wage military war. Unfortunately, we now seem to be waring against our own existence.

Better to trade, even with nature; so why do we seem eager to destroy ourselves by killing the earth?

The notion of honorable killing served us well to date. That notion, because of population pressures and M.A.D., now means more of an honorable suicide or genocide by all the military forces of the world, should they be stupid enough to get to a nuclear WWIII.

We men are no longer doing the best that we can for our children or our own best end. We have not curbed our love of killing enough and have put our full global habitat at risk of extinction. Stupid is as stupid does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Dan~ » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:59 pm

Most of the people i know find war abhorent.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Tab » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:32 pm

My Dad was a vet from WW2. Never got any kind of homocidal vibe from him, ever, nor any sense of fond memory.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:29 am

Dan~ wrote:Most of the people i know find war abhorent.


Yet we have had almost 5,000 years of war.

Someone, likely the majority, sure seem to like it and it is the epitome of drama, which we crave.

Bread and circuses. Food and killing, if not gladiators, then armies.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:32 am

Tab wrote:My Dad was a vet from WW2. Never got any kind of homocidal vibe from him, ever, nor any sense of fond memory.


I am not surprised, but have you ever asked him how he felt before knowing the hardship of the experience?

He may not have even wanted to go, but many do.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby derleydoo » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:30 am

Why do men like to kill men?

There's an opening statement!

Often men are ordered to kill other men. Some travel huge distances in order to follow such orders. Personally, I have not engaged in armed conflict.

As I understand it, there are 30,000 homeless veterans in the USA.

It would be interesting to get their views.

"Well? Did you like that?"

(I will read on!)

Don't think I will. :lol:

I am old-fashioned. I struggle to convince myself.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Tab » Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:55 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Tab wrote:My Dad was a vet from WW2. Never got any kind of homocidal vibe from him, ever, nor any sense of fond memory.


I am not surprised, but have you ever asked him how he felt before knowing the hardship of the experience?


Sec, I'll just grab my ouija-board.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:51 pm

Thanks guys.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby thinkdr » Sun May 10, 2020 12:40 am

I explain why some men kill others (they kill men, women, and children) in the initial post of a thread named "Ethical Truths." https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195687

They either have a form of brain damage, or they have been brainwashed by someone [perhaps a Rupert M.-type] who wouldn't mind being a cult leader. A couple of guys who succeeded in gaining cult-followers are Jim Jones and Donald T.

That thread points out that these killers, known as predators, are a very tiny minority of the Earth's population. Others become killers because they give in to social pressure: their character is not developed enough so that they can resist this pressure. Most all killers are ignorant of what is in their own best self-interest. They might have gone into the military - instead of becoming a conscientious objector - to eventually volunteer for the M.A.S.H. unit, as the best way to adapt.

An armed "enemy" youth, fighting to safeguard his home territory that has been invaded, suddenly appears in front of this this U.S. Army recruit. He then fires his pistol at they frightened youth, not out of malice, but of some primitive survival sense of what he has been trained to think of as "self-defense." He kills that citizen of the country that was invaded by us. Who made the decision to invade it? The old men of power and influence in the U.S. empire. {At the moment that empire is in decline, and another one elsewhere is rising.}
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue May 12, 2020 2:01 pm

thinkdr wrote:I explain why some men kill others (they kill men, women, and children) in the initial post of a thread named "Ethical Truths." https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=195687

They either have a form of brain damage, or they have been brainwashed by someone [perhaps a Rupert M.-type] who wouldn't mind being a cult leader. A couple of guys who succeeded in gaining cult-followers are Jim Jones and Donald T.

That thread points out that these killers, known as predators, are a very tiny minority of the Earth's population. Others become killers because they give in to social pressure: their character is not developed enough so that they can resist this pressure. Most all killers are ignorant of what is in their own best self-interest. They might have gone into the military - instead of becoming a conscientious objector - to eventually volunteer for the M.A.S.H. unit, as the best way to adapt.

An armed "enemy" youth, fighting to safeguard his home territory that has been invaded, suddenly appears in front of this this U.S. Army recruit. He then fires his pistol at they frightened youth, not out of malice, but of some primitive survival sense of what he has been trained to think of as "self-defense." He kills that citizen of the country that was invaded by us. Who made the decision to invade it? The old men of power and influence in the U.S. empire. {At the moment that empire is in decline, and another one elsewhere is rising.}


Fighting to the death is foreign to our natures so I agree with your view of aberration or conditioning being in play.

That may be why they have noted that even on a battle field, many shoot without aiming or wanting to kill and why PTSD is so common.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby pinkladydragon » Wed May 13, 2020 6:20 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Why do men like to kill men?


Nice that modern humans, as a species we are so nice that we mostly do economic war. Not so nice when we wage military war. Unfortunately, we now seem to be waring against our own existence.



Actually, I do not agree that it is "nicer" that humans more commonly wage economic war rather than military war. That is rather like saying that psychological warfare is better than physical warfare. In fact, that the theatre of war has moved into the mental world (economic war is fought on the psychological front) indicates that people have become worse, have degenerated, because it makes it easier for those who practice this type of warfare to cover their tracks and to hide what they are really doing. When warfare is physical, it is much harder to pull the wool over people's eyes as to what is really going on.

As to why men (and women) like to kill each other, the reason is that they do so because they have become corrupt. Because they have become corrupt, people's behaviour has become dysfunctional. One aspect of this dysfunctional behaviour is that people have become addicted to killing each other. They kill each other because they enjoy being cruel.

And you are right. If things do not change, then humanity will bring about its own extinction.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu May 14, 2020 7:58 pm

pinkladydragon wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Why do men like to kill men?


Nice that modern humans, as a species we are so nice that we mostly do economic war. Not so nice when we wage military war. Unfortunately, we now seem to be waring against our own existence.



Actually, I do not agree that it is "nicer" that humans more commonly wage economic war rather than military war. That is rather like saying that psychological warfare is better than physical warfare. In fact, that the theatre of war has moved into the mental world (economic war is fought on the psychological front) indicates that people have become worse, have degenerated, because it makes it easier for those who practice this type of warfare to cover their tracks and to hide what they are really doing. When warfare is physical, it is much harder to pull the wool over people's eyes as to what is really going on.

As to why men (and women) like to kill each other, the reason is that they do so because they have become corrupt. Because they have become corrupt, people's behaviour has become dysfunctional. One aspect of this dysfunctional behaviour is that people have become addicted to killing each other. They kill each other because they enjoy being cruel.

And you are right. If things do not change, then humanity will bring about its own extinction.


Thanks for agreeing on my conclusion.

I agree also that fighting to the death is not a natural state for humans. PTSD stats are clear evidence that we are not made to fight to the death.

I don't think I agree with your views on economic war though.

Trump, not so long ago, put up some tariffs on Chinese goods. An economic shot across the bow, so to speak.

Do you think it would have been better to put a shell into one of China's war ships in the disputed South China sea?

Not likely.

What about Regan and Gorbachove when they used Glasnost to warm up the cold war, got rid of the Berlin wall and increased trade instead of fighting or the possibility of fighting?

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby thinkdr » Sat May 16, 2020 7:29 am

Greatest I am wrote:

As to why men (and women) like to kill each other, the reason is that they do so because they have become corrupt.

And ...If things do not change, then humanity will bring about its own extinction.

I agree also that fighting to the death is not a natural state for humans. PTSD stats are clear evidence that we are not made to fight to the death.


Hi, DL

Could you please tell us more about what you mean when you use the word "corrupt."
Dictionaries define the concept in the following manner, but a more-philosophically sophisticated understanding of it would be helpful to the study of Ethics:
CORRUPT is defined by Merriam-Webster’s dictionary as:
a : morally degenerate and perverted : depraved
b : characterized by improper conduct (such as bribery or the selling of favors) Example: corrupt judges

dictionary.com defines “corrupt” this way:
debased in perverted; wicked; evil character; depraved; Example : a corrupt society.

Will you be so kind as to explicate the term, telling us in what sense you meant it in the above quote.

And do you hold, as I do, that U.S. lawmakers should be pressured to make corruption a crime punishable by jail-time?
:idea: For further reading and insight into the topics of Ethics check out these links, and thereby add to your reading enjoyment

THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS
[NEW] :!:
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf


THE BREAKTHROUGH - We Can Get Along After All (2018)
http://myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BREAKT ... %20all.pdf

LIVING WELL: how ethics helps us flourish
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/LI ... ourish.pdf


BASIC ETHICS: a systematic approach
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/BASIC%20ETHICS.pdf


ETHICAL ADVENTURES http://wadeharvey.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/ETHICAL%20ADVENTURES.pdf

When you search Bing for the following pdf selection you may wish to start with page 20 in order to skip the technicalities:
Marvin C. Katz - ETHICS: A College Course
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby gib » Sat May 16, 2020 7:39 am

Greatest I am wrote:At times of war, many men smile in the anticipation of killing another man. Sons love to anticipate killing as well. Killing is the epitome of personal drama and that is why we love it. Fathers love to see it in their children, and the children are eager to emulate their parents.


What kind of family raised you?

Greatest I am wrote:We just love war, and it we do not collectively stop loving it, it looks like we will go extinct. We are just to god damned powerful for this little spaceship earth.


Not an unlikely scenario.

Greatest I am wrote:Better to trade, even with nature; so why do we seem eager to destroy ourselves by killing the earth?


One reason is not everybody agrees we are killing the Earth. Another is that while we may be destroying the environment collectively, no one individual is singularly responsible. You participate in this when you drive your car. Ask yourself why you drive your car when you know it polutes the atmosphere.

Greatest I am wrote:We men are no longer doing the best that we can for our children or our own best end. We have not curbed our love of killing enough and have put our full global habitat at risk of extinction. Stupid is as stupid does.


Are you that sure we all just love war? Sometimes I get angry and wish I could kill someone. Sometimes I become depressed and wish the world would just die. But other times I feel good about being kind to others, and get a charge out of making other people happy. I know no soldier who ever came back from war and said "I just loved that!" Most come back with PTSD.

I think what would happen before we wipe ourselves out by war is we will decrease in number until there are too few of us to have war. There will only be a small smattering of soldiers who see that there are no more structures, no more institutions, to fight for--all their commanders, all their government wiped out--and they will wake up, suddenly realizing there is no need to fight anymore. They will look at the other soldier across the enemy lines and recognize him as a mere stranger, another poor sap who no longer has any reason to fight... and then maybe we'll all go home. There will be enough human beings left to start reproducing over again, and the human race will simply begin again from an earlier point.

The counter-example to this is nuclear war. If the enemy has the bomb (or we do) and is willing to use it, he *could* wipe out the entire planet in one foul swoop.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Gloominary » Sat May 16, 2020 4:03 pm

Why do men like to kill men?

Most men don't like to kill men.
You're a misandrist.

Why're some women attracted to killers?
Why're some women attracted to rich psychopaths?

Why do men tend to be more heroic than women, more willing to risk their lives to save others from imminent danger?
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Sun May 24, 2020 6:13 pm

thinkdr wrote:Greatest I am wrote:

As to why men (and women) like to kill each other, the reason is that they do so because they have become corrupt.

And ...If things do not change, then humanity will bring about its own extinction.

I agree also that fighting to the death is not a natural state for humans. PTSD stats are clear evidence that we are not made to fight to the death.


Hi, DL

Could you please tell us more about what you mean when you use the word "corrupt."
Dictionaries define the concept in the following manner, but a more-philosophically sophisticated understanding of it would be helpful to the study of Ethics:
CORRUPT is defined by Merriam-Webster’s dictionary as:
a : morally degenerate and perverted : depraved
b : characterized by improper conduct (such as bribery or the selling of favors) Example: corrupt judges

dictionary.com defines “corrupt” this way:
debased in perverted; wicked; evil character; depraved; Example : a corrupt society.

Will you be so kind as to explicate the term, telling us in what sense you meant it in the above quote.

And do you hold, as I do, that U.S. lawmakers should be pressured to make corruption a crime punishable by jail-time?



We had 20,000 years of peace under the goddesses. The Bronze age gave us the male war gods and weapons that could kill men more efficiently.

That was when we started fortifying our city states. Oligarchs have ruled us all from that time on through the last 5,000 years of war.

Thanks oligarch a holes.

The corruption of humans killing humans must be taken care of before the corruption of our oligarchs ruling without being elected can be looked at to bring our oligarchs to heel.

To your last.

Corruption is almost impossible to prove when they can protect and hide their bribes within the systems they have created.

Fraud is easier to prove, but your full systems are so antiquated that the U.S. might fail as a stated quite soon.

You are a nation of laws but you have more than one system of law.

If the U.S. walked it's talk, all would be well.

Obama showed us that.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Sun May 24, 2020 6:22 pm

gib wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:At times of war, many men smile in the anticipation of killing another man. Sons love to anticipate killing as well. Killing is the epitome of personal drama and that is why we love it. Fathers love to see it in their children, and the children are eager to emulate their parents.


What kind of family raised you?

Greatest I am wrote:We just love war, and it we do not collectively stop loving it, it looks like we will go extinct. We are just to god damned powerful for this little spaceship earth.


Not an unlikely scenario.

Greatest I am wrote:Better to trade, even with nature; so why do we seem eager to destroy ourselves by killing the earth?


One reason is not everybody agrees we are killing the Earth. Another is that while we may be destroying the environment collectively, no one individual is singularly responsible. You participate in this when you drive your car. Ask yourself why you drive your car when you know it polutes the atmosphere.

Greatest I am wrote:We men are no longer doing the best that we can for our children or our own best end. We have not curbed our love of killing enough and have put our full global habitat at risk of extinction. Stupid is as stupid does.


Are you that sure we all just love war? Sometimes I get angry and wish I could kill someone. Sometimes I become depressed and wish the world would just die. But other times I feel good about being kind to others, and get a charge out of making other people happy. I know no soldier who ever came back from war and said "I just loved that!" Most come back with PTSD.

I think what would happen before we wipe ourselves out by war is we will decrease in number until there are too few of us to have war. There will only be a small smattering of soldiers who see that there are no more structures, no more institutions, to fight for--all their commanders, all their government wiped out--and they will wake up, suddenly realizing there is no need to fight anymore. They will look at the other soldier across the enemy lines and recognize him as a mere stranger, another poor sap who no longer has any reason to fight... and then maybe we'll all go home. There will be enough human beings left to start reproducing over again, and the human race will simply begin again from an earlier point.

The counter-example to this is nuclear war. If the enemy has the bomb (or we do) and is willing to use it, he *could* wipe out the entire planet in one foul swoop.


Loving war is natural.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ

I like that we are moving to economic war instead of killing wars. Weapons into plowshares is good.

Desertification will kill enough as is and more to come.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Sun May 24, 2020 6:26 pm

Gloominary wrote:
Why do men like to kill men?

Most men don't like to kill men.
You're a misandrist.

Why're some women attracted to killers?
Why're some women attracted to rich psychopaths?

Why do men tend to be more heroic than women, more willing to risk their lives to save others from imminent danger?


We glorify war heroes and our best killers. They get the girls. We also like to challenge ourselves.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon May 25, 2020 8:15 am

Greatest I am wrote:Loving war is natural.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ
Cormac McCarthy is probably my favorite living author. That said, the Judge is a character in a novel. So, he's a character, not the narrator and the narrator 'himself' is not even the author, and the author is a fiction writer. That's a lot of layers down to be taken as evidence. There are facets of war that some people love. It is also natural to hate war, fear it, avoid it. I think the myth that it is simply a part of our nature plays into it's continuation. We could learn not to have it, to get the lies about it - that it offers the only way to achieve certain kinds of nobility for example.

I like that we are moving to economic war instead of killing wars. Weapons into plowshares is good.
Possibly. Better than all out nuclear war and the like, certainly. But the potential deaths and suffering from economic war are certainly greater than those in any previous war we have had.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue May 26, 2020 4:32 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Loving war is natural.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ
Cormac McCarthy is probably my favorite living author. That said, the Judge is a character in a novel. So, he's a character, not the narrator and the narrator 'himself' is not even the author, and the author is a fiction writer. That's a lot of layers down to be taken as evidence. There are facets of war that some people love. It is also natural to hate war, fear it, avoid it. I think the myth that it is simply a part of our nature plays into it's continuation. We could learn not to have it, to get the lies about it - that it offers the only way to achieve certain kinds of nobility for example.

I like that we are moving to economic war instead of killing wars. Weapons into plowshares is good.
Possibly. Better than all out nuclear war and the like, certainly. But the potential deaths and suffering from economic war are certainly greater than those in any previous war we have had.


The point of an economic war is to keep the other guy alive so that he can bleed out profits perpetually for you.

And vice versa.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 pm

War and killing and everything on the verge of it, all makes a man more aware of what existence is.
It is however almost impossible to have this knowledge and not lose its meaning. Because it is very hard to justify a kill to the self, and when it cant be done, the life of the killer becomes a farce. He will be reborn as a whipping slave or some such to help him back into a basic awareness of existence.

The act of killing when it is profoundly felt to be just, which is what war is for, brings the killer to the knowledge of the value of his own life, because he has pierced the veil between reason and will to power, or rather, stripped the will to power naked and beholds it as himself.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed May 27, 2020 8:52 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Loving war is natural.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIQynsWpBpQ
Cormac McCarthy is probably my favorite living author. That said, the Judge is a character in a novel. So, he's a character, not the narrator and the narrator 'himself' is not even the author, and the author is a fiction writer. That's a lot of layers down to be taken as evidence. There are facets of war that some people love. It is also natural to hate war, fear it, avoid it. I think the myth that it is simply a part of our nature plays into it's continuation. We could learn not to have it, to get the lies about it - that it offers the only way to achieve certain kinds of nobility for example.

I like that we are moving to economic war instead of killing wars. Weapons into plowshares is good.
Possibly. Better than all out nuclear war and the like, certainly. But the potential deaths and suffering from economic war are certainly greater than those in any previous war we have had.


The point of an economic war is to keep the other guy alive so that he can bleed out profits perpetually for you.

And vice versa.

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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Faust » Fri May 29, 2020 7:41 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
The act of killing when it is profoundly felt to be just, which is what war is for, brings the killer to the knowledge of the value of his own life, because he has pierced the veil between reason and will to power, or rather, stripped the will to power naked and beholds it as himself.


More to less. Which is to say yes.

But you gotta admit, it was a pretty easy question.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri May 29, 2020 8:05 pm

One of the easiest. In one way. Im guessing the hard part is to keep to whats easy about it.

A typical right brain situation.
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Re: Why do men like to kill men?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat May 30, 2020 2:25 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:War and killing and everything on the verge of it, all makes a man more aware of what existence is.
It is however almost impossible to have this knowledge and not lose its meaning. Because it is very hard to justify a kill to the self, and when it cant be done, the life of the killer becomes a farce. He will be reborn as a whipping slave or some such to help him back into a basic awareness of existence.

The act of killing when it is profoundly felt to be just, which is what war is for, brings the killer to the knowledge of the value of his own life, because he has pierced the veil between reason and will to power, or rather, stripped the will to power naked and beholds it as himself.


Perhaps.

Regards
DL
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