astrology

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:38 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Surrep is right that I get irritated. I get irritated by flat-earthers too. Its so simple to find out the truth, and so much effort is spent on avoiding it. Please, just, let it lie or study it. But... the Shadow. You cant do astrology and run away from yourself at the same time.


1] Is the Earth flat?

2] Does the placement and the movement of stars and planets and other celestial bodies impact on our personality at birth? Are they pertinent in making decisions regarding some of the most important events in our life?

Let's ask the scientists.

Now, in regard to the flat-Earthers, has the truth of their claim been established by science beyond all doubt?

But what of the claims of the astrologers? What have the scientists been able to come up with here in order to demonstrate the veracity of their claims.

And, if some have, link me to them.

As for doing astrology, what does that entail in regard to the decisions that you make over the course of living your life? Cite some examples of what knowledge you have been able to glean from these celestial bodies. And why and how you are convinced that there is no other possible explanation for what did in fact unfold.

Again, I'm not dismissing astrology as necessarily false. After all, an explanation for the very existence of existence itself conjures up all sorts of really, really mysterious possibilities. God being the most common. But mere mortals have also attributed "reality" to such surreal things like solipsism, sim worlds, dream world and worlds inhabited by "oracles".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: astrology

Postby promethean75 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:53 pm

Again, I'm not dismissing astrology as necessarily false. After all, an explanation for the very existence of existence itself conjures up all sorts of really, really mysterious possibilities.


that's a good open-minded point, biggs. it's along the lines of: if we can't explain how everything works, we might be wrong about how something in particular works. so for all we know, there might be something to the astrology. ah but here's the thing. part of that system of how everything works must involve a particular circumstance that makes us unable to know how everything works (cue things like falsifiability, fallacious inductive reasoning, etc.). in that case, we might be right about astrology, but wouldn't know how, in which case we'd have made a lucky guess. the problem with lucky guesses is minimal in the case of astrology - i mean it's not the kind of thing where we'd suffer tremendous dangers if we got it wrong... it's not like sending a shuttle into space. but it does allow charlatans to pretend they know what's going on with it, and that's offensive to an honest intellectual. we honest intellectuals don't like to guess, see, so we don't bother with shit we can't be sure of. and we sure as shit don't say 'see, i told ya so' when the stock market crash happens to coincide with the position of mercury.

other than that, i will tell you that astrology is probably true because i happen to have a very powerful chart. if i had a bunch of lame signs and placements instead, i'd tell you it was false. i'm sure you understand.
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Re: astrology

Postby surreptitious75 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:13 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
astrology is the way of attaining the profoundest self knowledge and most people would rather die than know themselves in any profound way

Most people dont associate astrology with self knowledge because they dont regard it as a serious discipline
But most people also dont want to look into the abyss because they are afraid of what they might see there
They think that psychology or philosophy or religion are ways of understanding the abyss rather than astrology
And so those are the areas they would avoid if they had an irrational fear of self knowledge and not astrology
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:35 pm

In Defense of Astrology
by HILARY CARITO in the Lesley College Public Post

On the surface, astrology can at the very least be used to describe the aptitudes and imperfections that a person has naturally been given at birth.


Or is the surface all there is?

While that may seem a rather deterministic way of living, astrology is merely information; it is up to the person what he or she does with the information after being given it.


So, again, we are back to pinning down where to draw line between the information that is fundamentally attributable to these "celestial bodies", and what "I" am able to do with this information that is not fundamentally attributable to them. Which is why I would need someone who believes in astrology to take me through their day and explain where they themselves draw the line in regard to the particular behaviors they choose. Especially given a context in which those who do not share their own sign choose something entirely different. Finally, in a context in which those behaviors comes into conflict over value judgments.

If a doctor tells you have an illness, you do not blame yourself for acquiring it, but it is your choice now whether you let the illness kill you or choose to work towards healing.


So, the fact that you have this illness -- how much is that is attributable to the position and movement of celestial bodies? How would someone who believed in astrology situate the current COVID-19/coronavirus outbreaks in their frame of mind.

The same logic can be applied to astrology. For example, a Libra may be told she is lazy by nature. Does this excuse the Libra, as she says, “Ha! That’s true, I am lazy,” to keep on being this way? Instead, it may present the Libra with the opportunity to keep an eye on her habits, thus giving her a new voice that says “You could easily just be lazy today but instead you’re going to try something different.”


Bingo!

It's somewhat analogous to those who argue that God made them who and what their are so who are mere mortals to tell them to be otherwise. Or, as with the existence of commandments in most religious scriptures, is there something about the position and movement of heavenly bodies that allows -- requires? -- believers to choose behaviors that are more acceptable? More likely to play to their own advantage in whatever astrologers conceive the afterlife to be?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: astrology

Postby felix dakat » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:23 am

http://www.archai.org/wp-content/upload ... ssue-1.pdf

World Transits 2000–2020 An Overview by Richard Theodore Tarnas (born February 21, 1950) a cultural historian known for his books The Passion of the Western Mind: Understanding the Ideas That Have Shaped Our World View and Cosmos and Psyche: Intimations of a New World View. In 1968 Tarnas entered Harvard, graduating with an A.B. cum laude in 1972. Tarnas is professor of philosophy and psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies, and is the founding director of its graduate program in Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
Soren Kierkegaard– Journals, 432
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Re: astrology

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:02 pm

"So, the fact that you have this illness -- how much is that is attributable to the position and movement of celestial bodies? How would someone who believed in astrology situate the current COVID-19/coronavirus outbreaks in their frame of mind."

The virus broke out exactly as the apocalyptic conjunction of Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Pluto the astrologers have been anticipating for years occurred.

As far as personal afflictions with it, of course thats in the personal transits.

The universe, what a character!!
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:44 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
The universe, what a character!!


Indeed. If it didn't exist, we'd have to invent it. After consulting with the stars of course.

You know, however that might work. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: astrology

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon May 25, 2020 8:50 pm

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Mon May 25, 2020 10:02 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:


Of course he's just paraphrasing Michel de Nostredame.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: astrology

Postby Destiny » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:08 pm

Iambigus can you tell my youngest brothers astrological? I made the report. For a chart, thank you!

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Re: astrology

Postby iambiguous » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:26 pm

Fixed Cross wrote: I dont "believe" in astrology. Unlike you Ive done the decades of research, being a man raised by scientists. You're the believer here, my dude. If you would have a shred of scientific instinct in you you'd have accepted my challenges. The same goes for anyone who presumes to question things but doesn't present the available data for experimenting.


What does not "believing" in astrology mean? As that pertains to a particular context that most of us here will be familiar with.

Also, take the "decades of research" there in turn. Scientific research.

In other words, a set of circumstances involving human interaction. There we can focus in turn on the distinction that I make between astrology in the either/or world and astrology in the is/ought world.

Astrology as it relates to the laws of nature, the "in fact" empirical world around us, the logical rules of language, mathematics etc., and astrology as it relates to the components of my own moral philosophy: dasein, conflicting goods and political economy.

Fixed Cross wrote: People who think astrology has no bearing on reality think that it doesn't matter if one is born in summer or winter, by day or by night, by full or new moon, even though both scientific evidence and common sense tell us that these things heavily determine the nature of the person.


Again, I'm less interested in what people think or believe or claim to know about astrology and more in regard to what they are actually able to demonstrate -- scientifically, philosophically -- that all rational men and women are obligated to believe about it. Linking us, for example, to actual experiences and experiments they themselves have had, have tried or are familiar with.

Also, just out of curiosity, how do you imagine astrology fitting into your own life, given that which is of most importance to me philosophically --- morality here and now, immortality there and then.

And go into some detail regarding the behaviors that you chose in a particular context of late. The existential relationship between "I" and the celestial bodies.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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