Unlike, it seems, Phyllo, I do see the personal as the only route to the political and the philosophical. And the individual person’s philosophy. You frame this as ‘thumping’ you and that this might ‘float my boat’. As if that was a silly thing. In fact, I think that both in process and implicit content, there is something I dislike greatly in your philosophy. So, as dialogue partner and then in the implied specific type of nihilism you have. Not that lack of objective morals, obviously. So, not the floats my boat, gives me some kind of shallow, hey, if you wanna play pokeman all day way. But as something I think is important in relation to what I want things to be like, including ILP.
We can see a snippet of this here. There is nothing implicit in non-objectivism that leads to being fractured and fragmented. It does not in any way lead to one repeatedly needing to present hopelessness and not knowing what to do as you do here. There is nothing in it that leads to the conclusion that if someone is engaged with life, they must have contraptions (fake beliefs in their heads that soothe and comfort and unify them).
I have tried many times in a variety of ways to demonstrate that these are not logical or necessitated conclusions or effects of being a non-objectivist.
If someone is not like you, then you assume that they are a variety of things
Because IN YOU
certain ideas correlate (at least) with certain ways you suffer.
That other people migth react differently seems to be beyond possibility for reasons never fully articulated. In fact, according to you the onus is on others to convince you that everyone should feel like them via rational argument.
How do I deal with conflicting goods? Well, I view them as conflicting preferences (though often I think people think they should think X is good when in fact they are undercutting themselves). I recognize and try to be realistic about these people, how they may react to me, why they think the way they do, and do my best to protect myself and move any situation, organization, society, individual, if possible in the direction I wish they would go in.
An example: I’d prefer it if stores used decomposable bags, cornstarch, whatever. I try to influence the management of a store, real example. I may present the issue in moral terms, because that’s how most people think. Perhaps I get economic reasons why they ‘can’t’. I used, in fact, whatever tools available to pressure them to change. They did, though likely not because of me, or only in tiny part. I cannot mount an argument to prove that we should give a shit about microparticals of plastics ending up in fish bloodstreams (like nanoparticles of utterly unregulated nanoproducts are already causing in the first days of THAT industry). I cannot prove that we should keep nauture healthy even if it reduces G_NP or whatever. Nah. But I use the tools I have available, pursuing the protection and flourishing of what I value. I don’t feel fractured because…
No, wait. I do not have the onus for that.
You have the onus for demonstrating why I should feel fractured because people have different ideas of what they want and most of them call X good and Y bad objectively.
I see no reason.
You have written threads about ‘how one ought to live’. Like it is obvious that everyone should and does want to know this. To me this is as if you do not exist already. If someone came up with what seemed like a perfect argument about why we should all be pedophiles, even if I could not refute it, I ain’t gonna be one. And I will continue to struggle to minimize their acceptance. Perhaps I am selfish and you’re not. I have accused you of having a Christ complex. Shit, I dunno. But it seems like, at least in the facade you present here, you see no reason to trust yourself. You yearn for a deity or scientific proof of how you should live. Animals don’t have this. They are not fractured and fragmented, unless they are traumatized. I have suggested that in fact your fragmentation comes from trauma. I don’t know if this is true, but it seems to you as if you do not even need to consider this. No, you are fragmented because of metaphysics or perhaps epistemology. I think that is likely parallel to that the anorexic with parents who lived through the Holocaust thinking she will be happier if she weight less and it is her weight that is the problem. But I don’t know if and or how much you’ve been traumatized.
It’s just that what you present doesn’t make sense.
And you function as a kind of lure into conversations in which you do not participate as an equal. You presume high status, while at the same time, often, bemoaning your state. I dislike the disruption you cause here in ILP, regularly hijacking threads. I dislike the way you treat people mocking them and judging them morally while at the same time saying you cannot know morally and also playing the victim when they make you the issue, despite you placing them as the issue over and over.
Again, look at your footer. I mean, at least it is honest. The first quote is smug and superior and aggressive.
You can make disclaimers, yes. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think I know wink to the gallery stuff.
But that’s nothing like conceding a point or really considering another person’s position.
So, it floats my boat to try to contain and signpost what I see as an icky, primarily anti-life position. Where someone not fractured is presumed to be some kind of objectivist and that that person needs to prove to you why every human on earth should be like them.
Yes, on the surface you are different from the fundamentalists, who generally cannot manage to utter a disclaimer that they might be wrong.
But implicit is a very rigid position and one that fills up so much space,not just restricted to your threads.
Just once, it would be a miracle, if you said: hm, maybe I really don’t know what I am doing here. Or, maybe you are right, maybe the source of my problem is not what I present it as. Or yes, you might be right, maybe I have been dealing with others in a way here that is disrespectful or assuming the onus is on you when I in fact as assuming the things you are pointing out…let me mull that over. For real. Not these disclaimers wehre it is clear you have no interest in actually exploring, but presented as ways to be consistant.
It’s a part of a larger pattern. You are unique case. A unique individual. And mixed in with what I see as incoherencies and a lack of candor, are also good points and ideas, unfortunately repeated ad infinitum. But part of the reason it
floats my boat. Or, I would say, part of the reason I find it important to me to get in your way, is because I dislike people, like the fundamentalists, who don’t know how to live or take care of themselves, or notice their own complexity, or have the courage to introspect and be honest about how they feel and what triggered it,
waving the moral finger.
And you do this. Yes, you add disclaimers. Because this is what one should do. One should be like you adding in disclaimers. One should be like you willing to negotiate and compromise (as if many objectivists aren’t capable of these things).
You are yet another entitled moralist. Filling vast swathes of media space - in my little world in this case - and seeming not to even know yourself while constantly pointing a finger. At least now the finger is more openly present in the footer of every post.
I wish the larger group of which you are a unique member could all actually face what their feelings are, rather than the egosyntonic ones’ they present. I don’t know exactly what you are going through. But your presentation does not hold. It doesn’t even match your footer, where at least something honest is peeking through.
And no matter how many quite intelligent, including emotionally intelligent people, you dismiss it.
That’s the confidence of a fundamentalist. Fortunately, I gave up long ago thinking you could listen. I do like putting up warning signs about the algae levels at the beach. And it is interesting holding up the mirror even if you can’t look into it.
But God it would be nice if you’d stop having loose verbal bowels all over the place in the forums.