Class Struggle

Rich people work hard and take risks.

While poor people whine, complain, and beg for handouts.

The poor will never overtake the rich. Ever.

K: so much bigotry and class hatred, I’m actually impressed
one post of three lines can hold so much disinformation…

I have to ask, are you poor or are you rich? and if you are rich, please
state your wealth? Your true wealth… my guess is, I have a far larger
estate then you do…but please tell us, without too much lying…
I know, I know, without any lies, you can’t make an argument, but
please try…

Kropotkin

Share my wealth? To beggars and whiners?

Never!

Typical Socialist, Begging and Stealing.

Here here!

So do thieves, human trafficers, snake oil salesmen and drug cartels… yet we steal their con/blood/drug money from them when we catch them.
We don’t seem to have a problem taking people’s shit…

And it’s not based on how hard they worked or how many riskses they took…

Some do, some don’t. Some poor do, some don’t.

Rich people pay people to whine for them: lawyers, lobbyists, pr firms and more.

Aren’t you the guy who posted this?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdwH066g5lQ[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3M-8ny16H4[/youtube]

Yes, this whole idea of the whiney poor is really offensive. Some of The rich have whined their way to the current fiat banking system where money is made not through labor. The rich whined their way to the GlassSpeagal act retraction which led to 2008. Certainly there are lazy poor people, but in general when poor people whine it is about basic life matters. The rich whine about things most of us would never whine about. And their whining is exceptionally effective given the kinds of players they can pay to whine for them. They can whine their way to a war over bs ideas becuase it helps them with the companies and markets. And they do whine their way to these things. Right now the neo-cons are whining, I guarantee it, daily to Trump to get the next war that poor people will die in over markets and company profits. If Hilary had been in there would have been a much larger war already in either Syria or Iran, because she’s down with the neocon plan. Trump, who I don’t like, is more isolationist, hence the friction with the neocons. I don’t doubt that if he gets one more term they will manipulate him into another war on bs grounds. (if this is taken as me liking Iran, please go back to kindergarten, you shouldn’t have dropped out)

I think that Fixed Cross is right, in the sense that they are not a cultural group, they have no identity. There is a faction, however, within the larger group of the rich that does have a culture and that culture is coming more out into the open even for fairly blind people: via the whole Epstein thing, for example.

I find most people problematic at best. Rich people have less excuses and more ability to make their weaknesses and plastic natures affect others. So, they tend to annoy me much more than other people. It’s a bit like small children shouldn’t be given flamethrowers to play with. Well, most homosapiens should not ahve much wealth.

Oh, and no, that doesn’t mean I like communism. There is noticing obvious problems that Communists may also notice and there are the various solutions to the problems. One can have vastly different opinions on the latter.

There are different types of rich people.

Most “rich people” work 60-100 hours per week.

Most “poor people” do not work at all, beggars, criminals, welfare mothers, etc. which is why they are poor.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eieVE-xFXuo[/youtube]

Skip to 3:20, socialists, communists, and anybody else who hate “the rich and powerful”.

Those in power, work for it. They work harder than you, which is why they are where they are.

America’s GDP is the highest in the world.
Its per capita GDP is much higher than the following countries, yet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_education

And it’s higher than nearly all of the following countries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care

Now I’m not telling Americans what to do, but the notion that they can’t provide each and every citizen with free education, universal healthcare, as well as a better wage and more affordable housing, is absurd.

The working class is a group, even if most of them are unconscious of it, even if most of them are disorganized, ununited and divided, just as whites and blacks are a group or men and women are a group.
Definitionally you can belong to something without being conscious of it.

i won’t ask you to define ‘work’ cuz i don’t wanna get in another fruitless debate with you, but i will show you the three levels of scumbaggery/parasitism that are possible in a capitalist system.

the lowest level of scum is the petite bourgeois, and this class generally consists of people who don’t own businesses (and therefore don’t pay wage earners for their labor) but idolize the materialistic lifestyles of the wealthy. in this category you can include, say, celebrities. also - and this is dreadfully ironic - proletarians (wage/salary earners) who are so backward and clueless they’re like ‘fuck it as long as i have enough credit to put a down payment on a 2021 camero, i’m good, bro.’

the middle level of scum is the moyenne bourgeois, and these are probably most generalized as one-time proletarians who became small business owners. these assholes are bigger scum than the petite because they actively and directly profit from exploiting wage/salary earners.

finally, the highest level of scumbaggery. the haute bourgeois. and these are the big dogs. trust fund babies, inheritors, CEOs, stock traders, etc.

there are also two general kinds of proletariat. one is the noble and courageous worker and the other is the ‘lumpen’ proletariat. this latter type consists of all the lower class refuse that lives off the government, which is funded by the working class, btw.

your boy jordan peterson is an intellectual puppet propped up by protestant conservatives to combat the leftism trends now circulating through the universities and in the media. his job is to re-brainwash college kids and youtubers into fearing socialism again… like they did during the HORRIBLE red scare.

There are different types of rich, and poor people.

Firstly, that may be true of the nouveau riche, but I doubt it’s true of the rich in general.
Secondly, even if it were true, then exclusively increase taxes on the idle rich, vulture capitalists, the bailed out and subsidized rich, the illegal hiring rich, and exclusively redistribute it to working class citizens.

In Canada and the US, there’s more working poor than nonworking poor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_poor

Better to struggle, with class…

Than to class struggle.

okay that was clever. quotable even.

Scapegoating goes both ways. The poor blame “the rich” for their own ills. The rich blame “the poor” for their own ills. So, which is it? Who is to blame? What is the cause? What is the consequence?

To conduct yourself philosophically, on this matter, you have to investigate. What is “the rich” and “the poor”. Not ironically, poor people are homeless, slackers, unwanted persons, intolerable, bad hygiene, unintelligent, and the like. Those who become disposed by society, do so, and are so, for a reason. It’s not an accident. I can take a microscope on any truly-poor person, and it’s no surprise. Poor beget poor; and rich beget rich. Class solidity occurs and develops because those in-power, those who gain wealth, want to keep, maintain, and secure it.

Before you go pointing the finger, talk pragmatically. Imagine if you (Prom) owned a Contracting Business. I mean, you never will, because you don’t have any substance beyond a teenager’s sense of Responsibility, which is also why you deny Free-Will. But let’s imagine you did, own your own Contracting Business. Would you succeed, or, would you fail? Success means making Profit, which is difficult to do. If everybody could do it, then everybody would. But, few do. Making Profit requires risk-taking, intelligence, cunning, planning, social relationships, salesmanship, etc. It takes a lot. Only after you make Profit, can you even afford to hire Employees. Employees aren’t responsible for much. The business-owner, however, owns the business 24-7. If a business owner can’t pay his employees, then the business will fail.

Prom, you make it seem easy to gain Profits, to hire Employees, to keep them, and to, somehow, keep such a business model lasting for more than a few months, more than a few years, more than a few decades. The businesses that have traditionally succeeded in the US, have done so, as positive evidence and proof of the success of Capitalism. People are free to start, run, and prosper from their own business prerogative. That you want to intervene, pretend it is something other than what it is, or worse, want to steal, thief, and regulate such, demonstrates the endless failures of socialism and communism.

If you can’t paint a scenario, of basic business-ownership and prosperity, then you have literally no authority or trustworthiness on this topic. You know nothing about the reality of business, corporatism, economics, society, and later on, politics.

Exactly. And many of them do not work.

You’ll have to demonstrate that.

A large percentage of poor people are children. There is also the working poor which is more and more common in the US. As the corporations globalized and did not feel any loyalty to the parent nation and the support they got from that nation, wages went down, jobs got moved out of the US, and you had more working poor and unemployed.

When people on the right complain about globalization and the attack on nation states, primarily their own, they often seem to forget that it was corporations that were huge drivers in this. They don’t want countries to have control of their own economies and laws. They have no allegiance to any nation, even if that nation via tax driven education and infrastructure supports and the priviledges of corporate charters got those companies to a place where they could leave the parent country. They are, right now, pressuring the neo-cons to eliminate boundaries between countries. They are right now dream of the North American Eu where the three main countries merge. They are antidemocratic. They guide foreign policy. That is what some of the rich are doing. When the poor whine it might lead to some kind of social benefits, yes, though this has been reduced steadily for decades, much thanks in fact to Clinton gutting Welfare. When corporations whine people from poor background are flown to the Middle East to die and kill and get fucked in the head.

As explained in the video I linked, concerning Lawyers and the Legal profession, students, post-graduates, and then lawyers, partners, and firms, put in ungodly amounts of hours on constant barrages of legal cases. Global corporations sue each-other daily, as means to undermine and ‘throw money’ at their competition, to attempt to drive them out of business. This is the reality. The salaries are 300k starting per year, and far upward.

How about Medical Professionals and doctors? Do they laze around? Are doctors lazy? Surgeons?

For you and others, in this thread, to paint a picture that “rich people” are lazy, is simply out of touch with reality.

Delusional.

How about Oil Workers on offshore platforms? How about Railroad Engineers? How about Coal Miners? All lazy?

No, those who have gained massive amounts of wealth, representing US corporations, have done so through sheer work, diligence, and Willpower.

To cut into their profits, which they own By Right, is theft. It’s the socialists and communists of the world, who are a threat. And the first casualty is Freedom.

And while many perhaps most rich, at least the breadwinner rich in the family, likely do work, work hard and probably long hours, this is misleading.
Because the problem is that the rich have ways of making money, a lot of money, via non-labor. A lot of these people identify with their work and if their work has a positive effect on the world, great. But there is a huge problem in that in addition to income these people can make huge amounts of money, and do, in addition to the income from their labor, from nonlabor. The worst of this takes place via fiat banking where money is being created out of nothing in a way that benefits the rich. This money must be paid back, generally, by people’s labor. Some people get to create money, this money must be paid back via labor. There are other ways to make money off of non-labor, a number of these directly responsible for the 2008 collapse. There are ways through real estate through having others invest and play with their money and more. The idea that someone might have great ideas and or work their ass off and accumulate a lot of wealth doesn’t bother me in the least. That’s not where I see a problem, more power to them. The problem is the ways the rich have created to make money off of nonlabor.

And then also that they have made an oligarchy and lie about it.