Looked at these, then looked at the amount of people that the government knows about in the USA, then looked at National debt and how much it would take from each of us to pay this debt off.
Strike one in my opinion for UBI.
Humans are corruptible. Humans take advantage of free things, they lie, cheat and connive. Look at the abuses in food stamps and welfare
Strike 2
Our government is f***ed up right now. We have crappy con artists in Congress and Senate in both parties. Both parties think that they should be the only political parties.
Strike 3
I can’t get behind UBI for those reasons and probably others that I have not yet thought of. Sorry my friend.
That is why some economists rationally argue that the national debt should not totally ever be paid down. it is partly owed to Americans: to those who have purchased government debt instruments [T-notes, T-bills] as a security measure.
In the initial post of this thread, I wrote: “Do we need now to put into effect the UBI - which stands for “Universal Basic Income.” Or some well-thought out form of it
On the web I found this analysis of what is called “The Freedom Dividend.” It is a proposal for a well-thought-out form of UBI. The analysis explains how the plan would be funded, how much it would cost, what would result from it, and other practical implications.
Then see these details as to how exactly it would be paid for – without adding to thee national debt: freedom-dividend.com/
A critical review of the proposal is found here: taxfoundation.org/andrew-yang-v … ic-income/ Unfortunately the model used to calculate the costs makes some unwarranted assumptions, such as that there will, as a result, be a decrease in economic activity. Actually, the opposite is likely to occur - due to technological innovation encouraged by the plan. The recent winners of the Nobel Prize in Economics demonstrated research that showed that people who receive a grant do not do not cease working; the labor force does not shrink. The evidence bears this out.
Does anyone else have a view on this topic? Let’s hear it!
Or, would the resulting economic growth make it all worth-while? What are your opinions on the subject?
Is everyone who may be interested in the topics of Ethics, democracy, and economics aware of this fascinating site informing us about the concept of Democracy in the workplace, rather than the more-common hierarchical structure?
Check out this link: institute.coop/publications
What do you think about the fact that these cooperatives actually exist and are practical functioning entities?
When Ethics is applied to Economics we learn that there are alternative ways of organizing a business - within the capitalist system - where workers have a say in the setting of their pension size, their pay, the projects they want to work on; etc How about that:!:
It seems to be the case that democracy in the workplace is possible, and actual in existing large-size organizations. These companies have formed into a network …coordinated by federations.
Ethics does prevail in the business world after all.
This is a good practical response to the issue of who manages these worker co-ops? For if they didn’t have wise management their failure rate would be higher than that of businesses structured in more conventional ways – i.e., in 19th-century ways. Actually these co-op start-ups [as far as I know[ have the same failure rate as do those with the ole, outmoded structure.
I shall be doing further research to learn the truth about the successes of these organizations that put democracy into living action.
Here is the mission of this program at Rutgers School of Management:
Geared toward managers in large firms, small businesses, cooperatives, and non-profits, the program will show participants how to create a values-driven, participatory work environment by:
• Improving transparency when sharing information
• Empowering employees in decision-making
• Developing a management style that fosters participation
• Engaging employees and promoting their growth
• Building organizational citizenship and a high-involvement organization
They apply Ethics, bring it to life.
And, as a bonus, here is yet another good link: institute.coop/resources/employ … n-solution
Cooperative companies work only if all are of a like mind. Cooperatives were the beginning of social business. Pack/herd but leaders will manipulate to be the one. If you really look at cooperates there is leaders that take more. Very very few are truly equal. Humanity is herd. Leaders are still needed and followers give to leaders. I respect what you are proposing and hope that eventually evolution heads there but. It will not occur within enough generations that we will see it. Evolution needs many generations in most cases, not all but, most. We actually have evolved enough to remove many prejudices. We know and accept that the Amazon tribes and the other what we call primitive peoples are humans and equal to a point. We protect their primitive life. Why??? Have you examined this question at all? Why do the governments and elites protect these tribes? What do they have that we do not?
That is exactly what I said in the early pages of the STRUCTURE OF ETHICS booklet!:!: See especially page 6.
sMany of the members subscribe to the Newsletter of the Institute for Workplace Democracy this helps.
It is true, Kris, what you say about some few getting paid more than the others who work in the same shop,office, or warehouse. This is because the company had to hire a manager with special unique skills who could bargain for more pay.
The aborigines of Brazil are part of the ecosystem of the Amazon Rain Forest. They help maintain the forest. The forest serves as “the lungs of the planet.” It consumes the Carbon Dioxide out of the atmosphere, and in turn, provides the planet’s air with pure Oxygen for us to breathe.
An ignorant Climate-Crisis denier (a friend of Donald Trump - another one) is cutting down the rain forest; he has the power to do it. Under-informed or misinformed people voted him in.
Can anyone think of a more stupid thing to do? Well …maybe going to war with Iran. Or establishing bases in The Middle East. …Or stealing Iraqi sweet oil instead of putting full-blast efforts in researching and implementing alternative clean, green energy, such as solar, wind, geothermal and tidal power. [Ironically, George W. put solar panels on the roof of his own home but he went into The Middle East anyway – for the expansion of the American empire.
Given the current economic system, called Private Enterprise, it is ethical to recommend and encourage any new small business starting up to organize itself as a workers co-op, one which engages in democracy-at-work, and is structured so that each new hire is automatically a part-owner. What the highest-paid employee (staff member) is compensated shall not exceed, say, six times what the lowest-paid worker gets in pay …if there are more than one dozen worker-owners in the company.
If less than one dozen, they should all start out with equal compensation, and then, - if the proposal to do so is justifiable (is sensible and practical) - vote as a group to give a specific individual more pay than the rest get.
What, though, is ‘Production for Use’ Can anyone explain it for us here in simple terms? In doing so, tell us the advantages, if any, and the disadvantages if any.
While I was doing research on UBI, came upon this very-interesting column reporting on its progress. You may want to check it out, to learn what is going on in Stockton, California.
See" citylab.com/equity/2019/10/ … nt/599152/
As you know, UBI stands for Universal Basic Income. Experiments with it are currently going on in Finland and (last I heard, still continuing) in Toronto, Canada.
From all accounts, people who receive the grants still continue to work at jobs.
Earlier I wrote that Rutgers University School of Business is training managers (who intend to run operations in worker-owned cooperatives) in these skills:
• Improving transparency when sharing information;
• Empowering employees in decision-making;
• Developing a management style that fosters participation;
• Engaging employees and promoting their growth;
• Building organizational citizenship and a high-involvement organization…
Worker cooperatives exist in an array of industries, from
retail trades to engineering and manufacturing to administrative services and various professional services such as, for example, in child care and housekeeping service businesses.
There is equity in these businesses structured as worker co-operatives. According
to my research, I can accuratelyreport that in the year 2019 the average entry wage for such workers was$19.67 per hour. Along with this pay they received, on average, a year-end bonus of $8200.
Most remarkable of all was this fact: The highest-paid worker in the company (or corporation) earned at the most only double what the lowest-paid worker was paid!! The Compensation Ratio is only 2 to 1.
Even if it were 6 to 1, this would be amazing!
What do you think of a UBI plan for the United States that would give every adult American citizen $700 a month, at the outset? The wealthy would get this too so the plan would be fair; although they wouldn’t experience the benefit of it by the grant they get but rather through the new secure society in which they eventually would live. This money would come from “a sovereign wealth fund” based upon productivity in the country. As productivity increases, this fund will grow. The original fund, set up by the federal government, comprising less than 3 trillion dollars, is to be invested in a safe manner, as are university endowment funds today. The administration would consult those who now manage such college and university endowment funds as to how to do it right.
We know the government can come up with such money for we have witnessed the Senate voting such amounts into existence in the year 2020, calling it a “Relief Fund” or “Rescue Package.” It is based upon a “trickle-up” theory, just as the national sovereign wealth would be. {After all, “trickle-down” has been tried for over 100 years and we note – as a majority of Economists will attest - it has not worked.}
Note also that productivity steadily increases as more dull, routine, boring jobs are currently being replaced by robots and automation. Many, many programmers in the USA today are employed writing code that robotizes work currently being done on assembly lines of all sorts.
Check out some of the historical background: the story of how the USA almost got a bill passed initiating a UBI. It happened in 1969. Read up on it: alternet.org/2016/03/how-ri … do-it-now/
It is desirable that everyone have a job that they enjoy doing, however the nature of the capitalist economy, “free enterprise” is the euphemism for it, is to suffer contradictions in its functioning, viz., busts that follow the booms - periodic depressions and job loss. We are living through a depression now. We need a solution to this chaos. Could a UBI plan be that solution?
Check out this thoughtful article which is relevant to Ethics when it is applied to economic matters. It continues to offer rational arguments for a reform which is especially needed in these times of high unemployment in the United States:
After digesting its contents, and following the points it makes, did this discussion serve to add to your convictions regarding the concept of Universal Basic Income?
Or did it fail to be persuasive in making its case?
What is your evaluation of the article?
Share with us your views …surely you have some.
$700 a month is a lifeline, but not much. General relief in California is slightly less and is merely a conduit to crime, as recipients sell the tickets for drugs and alcohol. Thrv$2000 dollar a month proposed by the House is more realistic a measure, across the board, with the hope that eventually this social infusion of money will lift into a modicum of general relief.
But can the nation afford it, and will it not increase indolence by eliminating the motivation to change among those who have been effected chronically by generations of social dependence?
These questions remain unanswered, and current statistics do not support a notable change within groups if people who have been permanently changed with the aid of general relief, or dole.
A subscriptive social support , augmenting education and development here in California, changed ’ welfare’ into ‘workfare’ where the conditional receipt of financial help has to accompany attempts by those who receive the benefits, to train for jobs and eventually attain employable status and succeed to hold down a job.
So far the program has less then favorable reviews.
Thank you for responding.
What you write argues for the case that it is important that more people learn what Ethics is about. and what “ethics” means. The concepts taught in The Structure of Ethics book need to be more-widely disseminated. One day, when such lessons are taught in primary school, in language appropriate for that age group, ethical insight will improve, and will spread over the planet. Let’s start by setting a good example.
$700 a month is a lifeline, but not much. General relief in California is slightly less and is merely a conduit to crime, as recipients sell the tickets for drugs and alcohol. Thrv$2000 dollar a month proposed by the House is more realistic a measure, across the board, with the hope that eventually this social infusion of money will lift into a modicum of general relief.
But can the nation afford it, and will it not increase indolence by eliminating the motivation to change among those who have been effected chronically by generations of social dependence?
These questions remain unanswered…
[/quote
Greetings, Meno
They showed that giving a Basic Income to workers did not tend to make them indolent. Their testing of hypotheses and experimental fieldwork approach earned them this treasured Prize.
To that extent the question is becoming answered.
Work gives meaning to life …especially if it is useful work; and human beings need meaning - else suicide often results when no meaning is perceived. Merely getting some financial security will not keep people from their projects, some of which will add value to the society in which they live. If most are indolent and even one Musk, Einstein, Bezos en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos comes along, the economic value gained is well worth it.
The way that I cope with the problem is I avoid eating manufactured food – with the exception of some ice-cream, and also pasta coated with marinara sauce - no added seasonings - along with steamed vegetables, and with an egg that is hardboiled in the steamer pot.
Other than that I eat only fruit and veggies that are fresh, raw, whole, and preferably organically grown. Thus I in effect boycott the entire manufactured-‘food’ industry.
As to medicines, I take only a couple of generics which aetna Insurance [a banker or middleman outfit] provides for me at zero copay (since they appreciate that I am so healthy; and that I am giving them my government Medicare money each month: I help them make lots of profit while costing them virtually no expense, since due to not getting sick I never make a claim.
I switched to a plant-based diet when I was 18. Now, on October 11, I will be 90. I feel as spry as when I was 50. [For further details about the healthy lifestyle see the websites of the National Health Association and that of Life Extention Magazine.]
Agreeing with you that people who lack ethics - predators and con-artists - get into the so-called “health-care” business, my approach to dealing with them is to “give them the business,” i.e., to have nothing to do with them and to endorse exposing their cheating practices. As an activist for Social Justice I strive to keep myself well-informed as to what is going on. To this end I listen to the Thom Hartmann broadcast (or read his website; listen to CNN and to MSNBC. It is an Ethical Truth that people learn Ethics more by witnessing a good example of it than they do by reading up on it.
Therefore, let’s make some systemic changes by encouraging the spread of Worker Co-ops as a source of new jobs. In those, workers are the owners of the business. They tend to be ethical …and they pay better!!
Then see these details as to how exactly it would be paid for – 
