Donald Trump, the democrats, and the republicans can’t stop the economic collapse that is coming our way within the United States. Your zionist shabbos goy and crony capitalist Trump is nothing more than an emperor with no clothes. He’s a Wallstreet whore full of hot air.
I consider this utterly unlikely. Even in Jugoslavia there was too much mixture of groups to have anything neat happen even it genocide and ethnic cleansing involved. The US has even less regional clarity and much more interbreeding, tight relations across racial and other divides, and melting pot areas. Further, the real power brokers are not going to give up areas like you have in your schema. The military is not going to allow all these neat little secessions. Not a chance. It’s a pipe dream.
What’s the military going to do when the nation economically collapses? What are they going to pay American soldiers with in income exactly when the entire military industrial complex goes financially bankrupted and insolvent overnight? 
Oh, I’m sure they have continuity plans for the continuance of government if such a crisis ever presented itself but with a majority of Americans hating and despising the current United States government, do you really think they’ll be successful in maintaining order? I don’t think so, they would lose control pretty quickly.
The United States isn’t as unified as you purport it to be, it is more disunified, fractured, and divided than it has ever been making the nation a perfect breeding ground for civil war when the opportunity presents itself.
You cosmopolitan neo-conservative libertarian civic nationalists are a funny bunch.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fKL2g3d-8w[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNRd6cZoIlI[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wqvq07tg7k[/youtube]
the pseudo-problem of ‘collapsing empires’ dissolves once you understand that there are no ‘empires’, but only particular social arrangements of material production/distribution/consumption along a continuum. where you imagine an ‘empire’ crumbles, it has merely changed. if you think in terms of such temporary and isolated things as ‘countries’ or ‘nations’, such shortsightedness will make you a nervous wreck for sure. history is a motion picture, not a series of snap-shots where in this picture there were romans, in that picture there were mongols, etc. and if you understand that the underlying dialectic of social change always tends toward the greater good for the greater number, and… and that no particular stage of man is ‘better’ than some other - you cannot measure the quality of people x by the standards you applied to measure people y - then you can relax a little and watch the show.
you know why the world will never collapse? because the vast majority of the people on this earf are productive and socially collective, and will get together to work shit out, whatever happens. ‘collapse’, or a quick structural change in a society, means only that a specific order has been reordered. so whatever brink of destruction global capitalism will bring us to, the productive classes will always regain control. they’re simply too strong not to.
we’re in a phase, bro, that’s all. growing pangs. the zeitgeist is exiting its adolescence and entering adulthood.
The entire world will collapse eventually, peak oil and natural resources for energy usage comes to mind. [Many academics say all of that will begin sometime between 2050-2075]
At this moment however global economic collapse of entire nations is more realistic of an immediate existential threat along with the looming possibility of another world war. For me I have called this era the new dark ages or more appropriately the beginning of, ‘The Global Dark Age’.
Of course this thread is about a civil war occurring within the modern United States and with a domestic national economy deteriorating at an accelerated pace along with cultural, racial, economic, or ideological divisions being paramount everywhere I maintain that is a very real loss of happening.
But you are the one predicting a neat, ordered outcome, with these pristine ethnic regions. Something that never happened even in the former Jugoslavia that at least earlier had regions with ethnic tendencies.
If there is some complete collapse, there is not going to be infrastructure to support neat little distributions of people. The large cities will have survivors that collaborate across ethnic lines. even if most citizens in them die. There will be no neat partition.
The factions you are predicting will have very little power. It will be intividuals, saving themselves and their families. And , yes, sure racial tensions will appear, but we are already so mixed and survival against other groups will force collaboration, which is already ongoing.
It would be more like the walking dead.
Your fantasies carry no weight in the chaos. You are the one with neat little plans and fantasies. A full collapse will lead to a large die off and people are not going to give much shit about what other people look like. Yugoslavia did not have a full collapse. It had already existing militaries that were to some degree separate. It’s not a parallel at all, in any way. The US is based on influx of immigrants that have been mixing in cities from the beginning with overarching social myths.
You want this and need it. And every post cries out your desire for retribution against those you see as having fucked you over. So the result is this neat little post-apocalypse. It wouldn’t be neat. And the men with weapons will be in charge. Sure, there might be competing armies, but they are more likely to break off in sub-hierarchies that are not going to give a shit about race, b ut just power. They will consolidate areas under them as best they can.
You are the cosmopolitan. You’re a nation state, ethnic cosmopolitan. You you have something special in common with certain European groups: germans or whatever. You don’t. I don’t think I have a tribe built on artificial culture concepts long killed by Rome. I am on the other side of you. Full cosmopolitanism → your silly ethnic cosmopolitanism (like people who share your heritage are giving you respect right now, lol → and me without fantaises that some kind of genetic bond means people are my allies. The people in the old Germanic tribes would have thought you the cosmopolitan, trying to get them into a nation. You can even thinking beyond the binary. If it opposes you think it is cosmopolitan.
I think you underestimate a large population of American white Europeans that do have ethnic or racial tendencies like myself. You think we’re a small number of people, that’s cute.
I think you would be surprised just how many of us there really is in existence.
Wrong, I’m expecting total chaos, pandemonium, destruction, and random violence everywhere. I’m counting on it actually.
Yes, there will be men with their families or neighborhoods, there will also be millions of single men too roving around the countryside. Forgot that in your equation, didn’t you? 
You’re not very good at this, are you? Millions of single men angry full of rage with nothing left to lose in life, gets me kind of excited and pumped up just thinking about it Karpel. You know me, I’ve been thinking about this for many decades now. The smart ones will band together very quickly knowing strength and safety in numbers. Just think of it Karpel, millions of single men getting together that are angry full of rage organizing amongst themselves under leaders that rise to the occasion and what happens after all of that, well that’s when things get interesting, don’t you think also? 
Just what will those millions of single angry men do organized amongst themselves? I wonder… 
It’s going to be real fun and exciting finding out Karpel! I know that I can’t wait to find out! 
I tell you what my libertarian and neo-conservative cosmopolitan civic nationalist that doesn’t believe in race or ethnicity trivializing it, when thing gets bad in this country I want you to move to Detroit, Chicago, or St. Louis where afterwards [Assuming you’re not dead after that] you can write a book about your experiences there. That sound nice, yes?
You and the dumb colorblind neo-liberals along with the communists that also believe in multiracial social utopias can keep each other company until all the locals decide to kill you. [“White man bad, white man needs to die. I take white man’s woman making her my own.” ]
You know, should something terrible like that occur I wonder if your stance would change afterwards, of course some just remain stupid or ignorant right up until death also. Which category will you fall under? Have fun with all of that.
Birds of a feather…
In desperate times, when there’s threat of violence, people ban together along ethnic, racial and religious lines.
Just look at prison gangs, many prisons are rigidly divided ethnically and racially.
It doesn’t mean after the political and economic collapse just because two people are white, they’ll get along, there will be a lot of conflict, suspicion, fear, paranoia, desperation, exploitation, opportunism, competition for resources and women, it doesn’t mean whites will never ban together with blacks and browns either, but insofar as people do ban together, ethnicity, race and religion are going to play major factors for many people.
Ethnocentrism and racism are natural, cosmopolitanism may be natural for some, but this kind of hyper-cosmopolitanism we have today, that’s what’s unnatural.
That only exists in these nation states because the Jew and other wealthy internationalists dominate and he wants to see his cattle divided, they’re easier to manipulate and exploit that way, less likely to organize and resist.
And when times are good, people get confident, families break down, people venture on their own more as individuals, but when times are bad, people get fearful and untrusting, you see families pull together, and ethnicity, race and religion are extended families.
We’re tribal creatures, we’ve merely substituted our more natural, biological tribalism with mimetic tribalism, sports, subcultures, political tribes, but even still, white people tend to select white neighborhoods to live in, white churches, white partners and so on, same with blacks and browns, but when things break down, their natural instincts really kick in, and their tribalism becomes more explicitly ethnic and racial.
Those are radically controlled environments. Radically organized. CArefully separated. Carefully controlled.
I am not saying that won’t happen. I am saying we will not have the neat balkanization that Zero sum imagines. The US history is very different from the what the preYugoslavian countries had as a history. It’s an apples and bicycles situation. And you will have a racially mixed military and law enforcement, which will be trying to enforce martial law, overall, or in regions. I don’t think that an apocalype will lead to a color blind aftermath. Hardly. Racial tensions will be unleashed and people, especially in more monoculture areas will tend towards their own race.
But…
- I think he underestimates what kind of chaos a societal collapse will lead to. There are not going to be neat flows of people into their ethnic areas. There will be no way to set up those areas.
- Major power players are not going to give a shit about race, just as they don’t right now. They are going to consolidate power, using whatever parts of the military they can use. And these elites will not give a shit who the militaries they control clamp down on, as long as those units protect them and their interests.
Right, but to me Zero sum is cosmopolitan. He thinks people are going to band together with him ethnically and they will be a group. Whereas in a total system collapse he will just be yet another person who is not particularly good at urban combat or guerilla combat. That’s it. Yes, some white farmer may be more likely to take him in then they would a black guy running from a city. But these fantasies of these ethnic areas is as if ‘his people’ will recognize him and make nice. It will be much more tribal than that.
These insanely powerful and controlling jews have really being doing a terrible job protecting their own people. And then after centuries of controlling things where they were regularly shit on, they put their nation state in the worst possible place. A place to set up the next Holocaust.
Right, we’re tribal people. Not ethnic people. A total societal collapse puts us before nation states. The Germanic tribes, which Zero sum comes from in part, warred with each other and certainly didn’t consider the Celtic tribes a unit or their friends. He seems to think a worldwide financial crash is going to land things back in the early nation states - which had white states that warred the fuck ouf of eachother anyway, shall we talk French vs. Germans, French vs. British…? - but it will knock things back before nation states. It will send us to tribes.
And there is not going to be a neat, all the whites over there, dispersion.
Tribes will form in local bundles and they are not going to trust other tribes, period.
And they will all be dealing with the real power people - former military, organized crime, law enforcement, mercenary/security companies coupled with elite resource rich people who manage to get through the transition. And while race ideas will play some role here, power will play a greater role. And apart from organized crime - which is often organized along ethnic lines - these other real power brokers don’t give much of a fuck about race.
And they will be eating their way through Zero sum and whatever German descended friends he managed to steal groceries from Costco with.
He’s in fantasy land. Anyone smiling away about a coming collapse is either radically confused or extremely powerful in terms of resources, ability to have a security force and whatever would become money, then.
I do hate the way things are, and I do want things to radically shift. But these pie in the sky fantasies are disconnected. And basing them on the very different balkan region, which had ethnic cleansing which Zero Sum himself has no reason to think he would be especially good at avoiding, is basing his plans on a completely different situation and one that required international intervention to keep from total degeneration. In the event of a total system collapse there will be no outside intervention, each country just trying to maintain its own infrastructure. There will be an enormous die off of humans in this situation.
Which oddly is precisely what the elites are often hoping for. In his own weird way he is aligned with and looking forward to the same thing his enemies are.
and sometimes they all unite against a common enemy; the POleece.
example: in B block two opposing gangs were fighting over the right to hold ‘shop’ in the block. holding shop is when you buy a surplus of canteen and hold it in your locker… which you then sell to inmates who don’t have the money to buy from the canteen. i give you one honey bunn now, and when your baby momma send you some money, you buy two from canteen and give them to me. called the ‘two for one’ deal. if you don’t pay me back, imma find you on the yard and distribute justice.
but wait, what might be a reason for this conflict? could it be that the prison meals were so sucking small, a nigga walks around hungry all day? (incidentally this worked out great for canteen vendors; a bag of oodles and noodles sold for $1.50 because niggas was so hungry, they’d spend that. in the grocery store, oodles and noodles is like 19 cents. the prison and the vendors are in cahoots here, see, unleashing another capitalist plot.)
now what would happen if these niggas weren’t so desperately hungry? the incentive to run a ‘shop’ wouldn’t be there. ergo, no gang wars over who got to run it.
a perfect analogy to describe what i’ve called the enemy that transcends the arbitrary interests of nations and cultures warring with each other trivial shit. they all have a common enemy, an enemy that is largely at fault for producing the very things these idiots think they’re at war over.
and what is that enemy? i’ll give you a hint: it begins with a C and ends with a S.
to difficult? okay i’ll answer. catharsis.
There is a common enemy going against the majority of the population but nobody can seem to agree upon how to go against them. This I do know however, once things get bad enough where they’re forced to declare martial law everybody is going to be taking shots at law enforcement and the military.
We might all very well hate and despise each other but one thing all groups of people can agree upon that is unifying is the hatred of the United States government. Doesn’t matter if you’re a national socialist, neo-liberal, libertarian, communist, anarchist, black nationalist, or neo-conservative, everybody hates the United States federal government. That might be the only unifying principle or value left in this nation that everybody can agree upon. 
No, I don’t think all white people will be unified Karpel. The only unifying group of white people will be the poor white working class as our group has been shitted on, oppressed, and ignored for several decades. That’s why I am national socialist because the white working class is dear to my heart of which I’ve been a member of my whole entire life.
The materialistic upper middle class and wealthy whites on the other hand will more than likely bunker down in their houses or neighborhoods since money along with profit is all they care about. It’s the only thing they’re loyal to, money, power, and economic class.
There will be racial infighting in all American ethnicities and races which I have no doubt will be the case, white people included.
If upper middle class and wealthy whites however think the lower ranking poor white working class is going to sit on their hands starving to death while they horde all the resources when this nation reaches a point of national crisis they’re in store for a rude awakening.
The upper middle class and wealthy whites will be given an ultimatum, join the national socialist white working class popular revolt or die being considered an enemy combatant. Know this, there are more poor working class whites than there are upper middle class or wealthy whites. There’s going to be redistribution for the white working class one way or another as we’ve been bullied and bludgeoned to death the last several decades by wealthy whites for a long time defamed within humiliation without the slightest human dignity in every possible manner.
Upper middle class and wealthy whites better not underestimate their poor redneck brethren of the lower white working class either because once we’re unleashed we will burn the entire countryside into flames organized.
We will make the lives of the upper middle class and wealthy whites extremely uncomfortable as this national crisis of a failed state develops.
“Jebediah, go get the guns, it’s hunting time! Hee-haw!”
speaking of hating the federal government, check this out. back in august i think it was, there was this. just a few weeks ago i received a letter from the state stating that i too am eligible for a similar hearing. now look at this:
-
grady’s crimes were far more severe than mine, and he was also a recidivist. this should mean that there is no question that this thing should come off my leg. and yet, that decision might not be made by another judge… in which case we have conflicting opinions… in which case we have no objective law. the law amounts to an opinion of one guy or another on one day or another.
-
i am expected to pay a public defender to bring my case before a judge. this means; i must pay for the state to restore for me one of my constitutional rights which it took away from me. add to this nonsense the fact that i wasn’t guilty of the crimes which got this thing on my leg in the first place, you have a glorious display of institutional corruption and incompetence.
-
i will not receive any compensation for the ten years my constitutional rights have been violated and the inconveniences i’ve experienced as a result (socially and economically). state merely says ‘oh i’m sorry… here, let me take it off. have a nice day.’
when you get to have a piece of the action at levels such as this, you earn the entitlement, nay, the power, to criticize the state, and you’re anarchism/leftism becomes something more than just wearing the t-shirt or debating politics at the coffee shop.
but i shouldn’t say ‘my hatred’, because that’s too severe a word. one doesn’t hate a cockroach or an ugly piece of art. disgust, but not moral outrage.
interpretational discrepancies, i mean. the constitution is only as good as what guy X believes it means. i’m cool with that though because it means i get to have my own constitution. amendment six in mine is as follows: all officials participating in the practice of the criminal justice system will go fuck themselves.
Same thing.
It’s a pipe dream. Most of the rich and the non-military workclass and poor will not be major players. Some may survive, sure. And hunters and survivalists and people close to the land with networks of other skilled people will have advantages. But no national socialist utopias with the working poor whites are going to arise in any significant way.
And you say this about the white working class, why exactly? I’m not a utopian, I’m a pragmatic and utilitarian authoritarian.
The level of joy and gratification displayed by the author of this OP exposes a motive.
A certainty underlies this joy, As though he is convinced that if America collapsed he would be a beneficiary.
I’ve gone though some of his other posts, and I’m left to wonder why he is going to college if the world will end, soon?
But to be serious, it is true that civilizations, like men, are born, rise and then decline towards death.
Spengler made the connection.
It is also true that this process is not instantaneous nor always dramatic. It can be, just as a man can fall to his death, ro be hit by a car and meet a sudden and untimely end, but this is more an exception than a rule, and it is always unforeseeable. The same can be said about empires and civilizations and cultures.
But there is a formula one can use to make an educated guess, because nothing is for certain, predicting the general time a man will die or an empire may collapse, if nothing unforeseeable occurs or some other external actor does not act as a mitigating force extending tis lifespan.
Hey there Satyr, I was wondering if you were going to take notice of me. Suspicions confirmed.
Of course I have motives, everybody does. We all have our own individual psychological motives, don’t you agree?
Convinced that I would be a beneficiary of it? Of course I am, anything would be better than my current lot in life. That’s the marvel of having nothing left to lose and where even the thought of dying no longer concerns oneself upon fear. When you’re at the complete bottom of society there is only going up and if one should die in the process it becomes merely a release of torment.
I’m going to college like any gambling or hedging man, having something to fall back on no matter which way the wind blows. I believe that is called life diversification.
Of course it’s not instantaneous, the United States has been slowly falling or collapsing since the late 1970s where now in this epoch of time we’re in the final stages where afterwards comes the instantaneous spontaneous crushing event.
Civilizations slowly decline or collapse at first where overtime things speed up until the final instantaneous collapse comes under a series of events which then signals the death cross. In the technological era the collapse of whole entire societies is sped up even faster compounded by global communications. Ancient Rome didn’t have the internet, global communications, or the interconnectedness of economic globalization to contend with.
For me a nation’s or civilization’s health is purely economic and it is within economics I make my estimated guess as to when the event will transpire. I think this is very logical in developing objective calculations or valuations, don’t you? Please share your thoughts.