time travel?

“I’m not sure that an “Essentialistic” worldview can improve upon all the empirical evidence that supports this Deterministic worldview. It needs fleshing out, but even then, to put things in terms that defy causation is somewhat counter to the nature of understanding itself: one understands something to the extent that they know what causes what, no?”

Not necessarily, but that doesn’t absolutely disqualify re-sourceful requalification.

If, it is sustained by the myths surrounding their tenancy,
If that is difficult enough , then imagine how hard it is to conceive such a state a-posteriori.
In the event that is tried outside of it’s own set up, how difficult a job an evolutionary inception could possibly be! (Within even a.
modicum of tenancy)

In terms of a fed back repetitive process)

And then,

“one understands something to the extent that they know what causes what, no?”

Not necessarily, most people do, but some figure that even though unfounded knowledge is insufficient in terms of retaining it’s manifold reasons for understanding, the buried myths below levels of understanding retain some connective strings.

Socrates said,

" I can not make people understand, but only to teach them how to think"

I wish time travel was possible so I could get the hell out of here.

2500 B.C. Europe sounds nice. The fun I could have, I would like to do some re-writing of global history as well. Global time cops wouldn’t be able to stop me. :sunglasses:

I would also go back in time to murder John Locke in his sleep with a pillow. After that classical liberalism would be no more. Take that you, liberal bastards! :laughing:

Except You are wrong. There is eternal time travel, if unafraid to fly there.
Course not You individually, but as an enlightened being who is unafraid to morph or reinvent yourself and realize that You are not who you think You are.
That is where karmic effects try to define the effects of a never stopping merry go round, from which you can not get off, even if you decide to checkout.

No, these are entirely unrelated concepts.

I agree with the principles you’re expressing here, though they have less to do with time travel than what I discussed in the other, chemical aliens thread.
Lifeforms are clearly a product of their environment, even though at heart the principle whereby they exist is universal, what I now call “valuator logic”, formerly known as “value ontology” and “self-valuing logic”.

Good to know.
Care to embellish a little?
Much to my chagrin I’m not telepathic (nor “telelogic”?).

I’m sure you would class your ideas as original and unconventional, so a little help in translating them would help you spread them more effectively, no?

Glad I was of help.

I can repeat myself If you wish: No, the two concepts aren’t related.

Oh, haha. A joke.

Which ideas of mine are those? That time space is a 4d object is hardly unconventional and obviously not my own. The “essentialism” term comes from Faust.

You were under the impression that these ideas were mine?

If you don’t understand a thing just come out and say it. No need to pretend you’re offering me a favour when you’re asking me for one.

To be clear, I am asking you a favour because I don’t understand what you’re saying.

I had no intention of coming across as otherwise, my apologies if that’s how it turned out.
No need to repeat yourself - I requested embellishment not repetition, if you recall.

I don’t understand what you want to have embellished.

The “essentialism” thing is probably most interesting to embellish.

So does anyone here actually believe in time travel or is this another mind game?

I actually believe in it.

Why do you believe it?

I believe it because belief is similar to faith, and faith is not onto-logical, faith in anything is primordial , built in to reality. You have faith in an existential premise of li ing, even if, those premises are challenged.

If not, if you are the kind who wish to end it all, it offers no design for others because life goes on, in spite of the overwhelming amount of hardship that accumulates and contrarily, does not diminish with the passage of time.

So the idea that a process, consisting not of indistinct flow, is wrong, because if there was a powerful magnifier, we could see the particles which build the flow, and why?

Because our act of seeing will break the flow down for us.

Reality will be of service to the me el and power of magnification, so the matter will exhibit an unlimited reduction toward a required visibility.
There is never an absolute, because an absolutely powerful magnifier can never be needed, for constructing a reality, but if there was, then, the absolute nothingness would be perceived and not merely conceived as containing itself, the absolute everything.

With that, that the assumed, reducible sense of our understanding of a timeless passage, always near absolutely bending itself into a near perfect universe, satisfactorily proves on every lower level it’s intangible difference between absolute and relative tangency, requires an absolute measure , where by all circular examples of relarovr measures are computed, either in the cosmos’ planetary, galactic forms, or the atomic configurations within and upon which the forms of behavior are predicated upon.
This mathe-intelligence is made up of blocks , blocks of information, which are eternally spliced from the stills that are a permanent feature of.universal under-standing.
The appearent flow, is this incessant requirement to replace missing pieces that tie each bit to the next.

This is super human, and that becomes appearent becomes appearent is revealed with increasing long etude, while the opposite does the same in simultaneous tandem.

The bit are forgotten but always recoverable, by various created mediums of reception, and they also become part of the whole manufactured mechanism of perception.

So consciousness becomes the fuel which increasingly accelerates the vehicles by which connections of the bits are placed into a continuous flow of required understanding through preception.

The absolute requirement of.varifocatio parallels the process by further magnification , which process again has to be upward generalized, so that memory will retain the most.general aspects.

The individual ego, in accordance with such structure, in order to perceive all the corelational strands of information , break into as many particles to simulate this process, the end result is that these individuals get closer to thenrequired absolute, and become more and more intangible to the absolute, confirming to the confirmation of that.
At approaching critical points of tangency, the individual spaced out relative points , become indistinguishable to each other, and create the effect of a flow, as they have always been, but perceived otherwise in moments of less magnified relational structures.

The idea still works within lower levels of abstraction, because there has always been perceptions of this ‘a-priori’.
The travel is a simulation before simulation became figurable, and hence Parmenides, not Heraclitus became the transcendental objectivist.

So wishful suspicion built upon rumors?

You sound like a re-publican re-tractor.
Not that is necessarily a bad thing.
How ever, not necessarily pro-ductive, to put it mildly.

The intention was to relay that you seem to propose no science or reputable source for your priori assertions used to justify your “faith”. I am not claiming that you should do otherwise. I am just noting what appears to be the case, whether good or bad.

Obsrvr524,

Actually no.

It is a-posteriori from ‘It from Quibit’, a study shared by hundreds of scientists the world over .

Reference link?

Oh, never mind. I found the kind of thing that you are talking about. A quibit is a information bit, not an actual physical bit. It is an idea.

And it seems highly disputed that quantum ideas directly relate to the physical world (as mentioned on this board quite often by James - over 1000 posts on it). I am not really qualified to dispute it myself, but as you said - it’s your faith.

Everyone has to stay in their bubble of belief.

Ok.But.
Where would science be if it did not follow a pattern, in fact where would have philosophy began, not from one and then the other, but an appearent interplay, of one within the other, structuring a coincidental idea with an observation.
In fact the interplay between the one and the other is becoming shorter spaced, the hypotheticals have become more closely deduced as the induced , minimal approximations are becoming smaller.
In fact the integrated , or the pre differentiated a-prior/a-posteriori distinction , between philosophy and science indicate a unified field of pre-Socratic awareness of a prior field , for which knowledge is inscribing the same vindicated state.
After all, consciousness and consciousness of some ‘thing’ has this transcendence to model learning, as it’s mode of operation, all along the way, only exhibiting a different schema, as for example a flow becomes broken up into bits of informed realization at it’s core.
You don’t need to re-invent the concept within the development of the study of light and mass to come up with relativity, because it was already implicit in the characteristics of their very prefuncture.
That is how it behaves, and it has taken two thousand years to come to realize that idea. It was not an invention in the sense of utilization, but a discovery of the application of that idea.
I believe You merit the idea, which does not oppose this flow of information, within the strictest modeling within the modicum of calculation , consisting of an unconscious-unaware preception of the connection of irreducibles, as a hypothetical terrain which does not induce a further breaking up into minute parts, an anti-derivitive which has no epistemological basis, but only a structural progression, which may figure in the evolution of conscious manifestation as premordially significant.
I tend to agree with those who dismiss circular argument as a criteria for disqualifying in terms of finely tuned quanta-behavior info, for various reasons, and in the idea of mathemagic , the
value that disappears, behaves as the cutting point where the deducements effect a separation from it’s inducements.
In astronomy, the antithesis to particle physics, the horizon that exists around a black hole produces these kinds of effects around curvature in general.
Mathematically, the lineal versus the non linear function describes how long the kind of functionality will require the kind of specification corresponding to it , whereby the curvature will delimit toward an imploding number of repetitive cycles, before it is perceived to approach a minimum, rather than toward a maximum.
This grey area is sustained, until the function remains fairly consistent between invention-application and model In-design.

I held the pre-eminence of this idea with James as fairly probable, though he ironically held the logical construction of reality at bay, he did not think it arguable in the manner in which, one tions arose toward the ideas put forward in the principia mathematica, where Russel fails to demonstrate the basic idea of the make-up of ‘sense’ or awareness of data as constitutive of consciousness.(sense data)
This, up to the present day, has been the block to present a unified field, and the description of micromanagement of it’s representation within, as an adequate objective , to transcend it’s own premises.
But I don’t see this as a complete negation of it’s basic suppositions …
I am aware of an incomplete representation of circulatory in this argument, but it remains to see how compelling the counter position tends to de-differentiate them, within the next decade or two.

I am not a mathematician per se, but view the conscious manifestation of the logical prereception to be the essential cognitive foundation of it.

I found the reference to the idea, which may be k own to you guys , but rather new to me:

String Theory

Tangled Up in Spacetime

Hundreds of researchers in a collaborative project called “It from Qubit” say space and time may spring up from the quantum entanglement of tiny bits of information

By Clara Moskowitz on October 26, 2016

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“All the world’s a stage…,” Shakespeare wrote, and physicists tend to think that way, too. Space seems like a backdrop to the action of forces and fields that inhabit it but space itself is not made of anything—or is it? Lately scientists have begun to question this conventional thinking and speculate that space—and its extension according to general relativity, spacetime—is actually composed of tiny chunks of information. These chunks might interact to create spacetime and give rise to its properties, such as the concept that curvature in spacetime causes gravity. If so, the idea might not just explain spacetime but might help physicists achieve a long-sought goal: a quantum theory of gravity that can merge general relativity and quantum mechanics, the two grand theories of the universe that tend not to get along. Lately the excitement of this possibility has engrossed hundreds of physicists who have been meeting every three months or so under the banner of a project dubbed “It from Qubit.”

The “it” in this case is spacetime, and the qubit (pronounced “cue-bit,” from “quantum bit”) represents the smallest possible amount of information—a computer “bit” on a quantum scale. The idea suggests the universe is built up from some underlying code, and that by cracking this code, physicists will finally have a way to understand the quantum nature of large-scale events in the cosmos. The most recent It from Qubit (IfQ) meeting was held in July at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Ontario, where organizers were expecting about 90 registrants. Instead, they got so many applications they had to expand to take 200 and simultaneously run five satellite sessions at other universities where scientists could participate remotely. “I think this is one of the most, if not the most, promising avenues of research toward pursuing quantum gravity,” says Netta Engelhardt, a postdoctoral researcher at Princeton University who is not officially involved in It from Qubit but who has attended some of its meetings. “It’s just taking off.”

Because the project involves both the science of quantum computers and the study of spacetime and general relativity, it brings together two groups of researchers who do not usually tend to collaborate: quantum information scientists on one hand and high-energy physicists and string theorists on the other. “It marries together two traditionally different fields: how information is stored in quantum things and how information is stored in space and time,” says Vijay Balasubramanian, a physicist at the University of Pennsylvania who is an IfQ principal investigator. About a year ago the Simons Foundation, a private organization that supports science and mathematics research, awarded a grant to found the It from Qubit collaboration and finance physicists to study and hold meetings on the subject. Since then excitement has grown and successive meetings have drawn in more and more researchers, some official members of the collaboration funded by Simons and many others simply interested in the topic. “This project is addressing very important questions, but very difficult questions,” says IfQ collaborator Beni Yoshida, a postdoctoral researcher at Perimeter. “Collaboration is necessary—it’s not like a single person can solve this problem.” Even scientists outside of the project have taken notice. “If the link with quantum information theory proves as successful as some anticipate, it could very well spark the next revolution in our understanding of space and time,” says string theorist Brian Greene of Columbia University, who is not involved in IfQ. “That’s a big deal and hugely exciting.”

ENTANGLING SPACETIME

The notion that spacetime has bits or is “made up” of anything is a departure from the traditional picture according to general relativity. According to the new view, spacetime, rather than being fundamental, might “emerge” via the interactions of such bits. What, exactly, are these bits made of and what kind of information do they contain? Scientists do not know. Yet intriguingly, “what matters are the relationships” between the bits more than the bits themselves, says IfQ collaborator Brian Swingle, a postdoc at Stanford University. “These collective relationships are the source of the richness. Here the crucial thing is not the constituents but the way they organize together.”

The key to this organization may be the strange phenomenon known as quantum entanglement—a weird kind of correlation that can exist between particles, wherein actions performed on one particle can affect the other even when a great distance separates them. “Lately one absolutely fascinating proposal is that the fabric of spacetime is knitted together by the quantum entanglement of whatever the underlying ‘atoms’ of spacetime are,” Balasubramanian says. “That’s amazing if true.”

The reasoning behind the idea comes from several earlier discoveries by physicists, such as a 2006 paper by Shinsei Ryu and Tadashi Takayanagi showing a connection between entanglement and the geometry of spacetime. Building on that work, in 2013 Juan Maldacena and Leonard Susskind found that if two black holes became entangled, they would create a wormhole—a shortcut in spacetime predicted by general relativity. This discovery (nicknamed ER=EPR, after physicists’ shorthand for wormholes and entanglement) and others like it suggest, surprisingly, that entanglement—which was thought to involve no physical link—can produce structures in spacetime.

To understand how entanglement might give rise to spacetime, physicists first must better understand how entanglement works. The phenomenon has seemed “spooky,” in the words of Albert Einstein, ever since he and collaborators predicted it in 1935. Lately scientists have been studying the various kinds of entanglement that can exist. For instance, conventional entanglement involves linking a single characteristic (such as a particle’s spin) in multiple particles of the same type spread out in space. But one could instead entangle multiple particles of a certain kind at one location with particles of a different kind at the same location. “That’s not entanglement in space,” Balasubramanian says. “I’ve come to realize that there are other forms of entanglement that turn out to be relevant for this project of reconstructing spacetime—conventional entanglement is not enough.” Scientists are also tackling the confusing complexities of entangling larger numbers of particles.

Once the dynamics of entanglement are clearer, scientists hope to comprehend how spacetime emerges, just as the microscopic movements of atoms in the air give rise to the complex patterns of thermodynamics and weather. “This is an emergent phenomenon—when you zoom out of something, you see a different picture that you wouldn’t know comes about because of smaller dynamics,” Engelhardt says. “This is one of the most fascinating things about It from Qubit, because we don’t understand the fundamental quantum dynamics from which spacetime emerges.”

COSMIC HOLOGRAMS

The major goal of all this work is to finally achieve a theory that describes gravity from a quantum perspective. Yet physicists chasing this goal have been stymied for a century so far—Einstein himself pursued such a theory doggedly until his death, with no success. The It from Qubit scientists are banking on an idea known as the holographic principleto help them.

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This principle suggests that some physical theories are equivalent to simpler theories that work in a lower-dimensional universe, in the same way that a 2-D postcard with a hologram of a unicorn on it can contain all the information necessary to describe and portray the 3-D shape of the unicorn. Because finding a working theory of quantum gravity is so hard, the thinking goes, physicists could aim to discover an equivalent, easier-to-work-with theory that operates in a universe with fewer dimensions than ours.

One of the most successful embodiments of the holographic principle is a discovery known as the AdS/CFT correspondence, found by Maldacena in 1997 within the framework of string theory. String theory, itself an attempt at a theory of quantum gravity, replaces all the fundamental particles of nature with tiny vibrating strings. In the AdS/CFT correspondence Maldacena showed that one can completely describe a black hole purely by describing what happens on its surface. In other words, the physics of the inside—the 3-D “bulk”—corresponds perfectly to the physics of the outside—the 2-D “boundary.”

The physics inside a black hole (shown here in an artist’s conception) could be encapsulated by the physics on its surface, according to an idea called the holographic principle. Credit: NASA, JPL-Caltech

AdS/CFT might allow physicists to discover a theory that is equivalent to quantum gravity, accomplishes all the same goals and can describe all the same physics, but that is much easier to work with—by leaving out gravity altogether. “Theories with gravity are very difficult to get quantum descriptions of whereas theories that don’t have gravity are much easier to describe completely,” Balasubramanian says. But how, one might ask, could a theory that leaves out gravity ever be a theory of “quantum gravity”? Perhaps what we think of as gravity and spacetime is just another way of looking at the end product of entanglement—in other words, entanglement might somehow encode the information from the 3-D bulk into bits stored on the 2-D boundary. “It’s a very exciting direction,” he adds.

For the past 20 years scientists have found that the AdS/CFT correspondence works—a 2-D theory can describe a 3-D situation—but they do not fully understand why. “We know these two theories are dual but it’s not exactly clear what makes the duality work,” Swingle says. “One output [of IfQ] you could hope for is a theory for how these dualities arise. That’s something I think definitely can and will happen as a result of this collaboration or at least major progress towards that.”

Quantum information theory may be able to help because it turns out that a familiar concept from this field, quantum error–correcting codes, could be at work in the AdS/CFT correspondence. In quantum computers, quantum error–correcting codes are a method scientists devised to help protect information from being lost if the entanglement between any particular bits gets broken. Rather than using single bits to encode information, quantum computers use highly entangled states of multiple bits to stand in for each bit, so that a single error cannot affect the overall bit. “There’s an underlying mathematical structure that seems to be common to the error-correcting codes and AdS/CFT,” says quantum information scientist Dorit Aharonov, an IfQ principal investigator at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. In computers that redundancy is being used to correct errors, but in AdS/CFT it may be able to encode the bulk physics into an entangled state on the boundary. “It’s very intriguing that you find quantum error–correcting codes inside black holes,” she says. “Why on Earth would that happen? These connections are just fascinating.”

If physicists do eventually understand the how the AdS/CFT correspondence works—and come up with a lower-dimensional theory that stands in for quantum gravity—they are still not home free. The correspondence itself only works in a “toy model” of the universe that is somewhat simplified from the fully realized cosmos we inhabit. “AdS/CFT has a kind of gravity, but it’s not the theory of gravity in an expanding universe like we live in,” Swingle says. “It describes a universe as if it was in a bottle—if you shine a light beam, it bounces off the walls of the space. That doesn’t happen in our expanding universe.” This model gives physicists a useful theoretical playground in which to test their ideas, where the simplified picture makes tackling quantum gravity easier. “You can hope it’s a useful way station in the eventual goal of understanding gravity in our own universe,” Swingle explains.

Some skeptics have questioned how productive IfQ can ever be if it is based on an unrealistic foundation. “That certainly is one very valid criticism: Why are we focusing on this toy model?” Engelhardt says. “All of this depends on the validity of the toy model, and the idea that in the end the toy model is representative of our universe. I would like to make sure that if we understand the toy model, we understand the real deal.”

THE PAYOFF

Regardless of whether It from Qubit will ultimately achieve the holy grail of a unified theory, scientists inside and outside the project say the approach is worth trying and is already turning up many new avenues to pursue. “I’ve long felt that the relation between quantum information and quantum gravity is of fundamental importance,” says Raphael Bousso, a physicist at the University of California, Berkeley, who is not involved in IfQ but has worked with some of its collaborators. “The connection has deepened over the years, and I’m thrilled that so many outstanding scientists are now working together to confront these questions and see where they lead us.” Stanford University theorist Eva Silverstein, who is not part of the collaboration, concurs. “It is clearly worthwhile to develop and apply quantum information to these problems. But to understand the dynamics [of quantum gravity] much more is required, and it is important for the field not to focus too narrowly on a single approach.”

Furthermore, even if the project does not pay off with a theory of quantum gravity, it is still likely to have beneficial offshoots. Bringing the techniques and ideas of string theory and general relativity to bear on questions of quantum information can, for instance, help to better define the different types of entanglement that can exist, both for purposes of understanding spacetime as well as constructing quantum computers. “When you start playing with these tools in a new setting, it’s very likely that it will bring up ideas that are interesting and might be useful in other areas,” Aharonov says. “It looks like people are making progress on questions that have been out there for many, many years, so it’s exciting.” For instance, scientists have found that measuring time within wormholes may be possible by thinking of the wormhole as a quantum circuit.

Furthermore, combining quantum information science with string theory may help not just in deriving a theory of quantum gravity but in evaluating whatever theory the researchers find. “A crucial question we would ask—once we actually manage to come up with a detailed-enough physical theory of quantum gravity—is what is the computational power of this model?” Aharonov says. Any physical theory can be thought of as a computational model, its input and output akin to the theory’s initial state and a later state that can be measured—and any computational model has a computational power. “If that power is too large, if our quantum gravity model would be able to compute things that we don’t believe can be computed in our world, that would at least raise a question mark on the theory. It’s a way to actually tell whether the theory is sensible or not from a different point of view.”

The project is reminding some physicists of the heady days in the past when other big ideas were just getting started. “I became a grad student in 1984 when the so-called ‘first string theory revolution’ took place,” says Hirosi Ooguri, a physicist at the California Institute of Technology who has been working on IfQ. “That was a very exciting time when string theory emerged as a leading candidate for a unified theory of all the forces in nature. I do see the current explosion of excitement around this similarly. This is clearly an exciting time for young people in the field as well as those of us who received our PhDs decades ago.”