Mowk, the deities speak through all of you, that’s why I post on these boards.
Yes, humans need to be taught/trained how to be a self recursive sex dimorphic species, why they should be that way.
I’m doing the teaching right now, but I don’t think it’s good enough.
Obviously, I lay out very simple reasoning - the psychological effect of approach escalation in a sex dimorphic species – and you just complain – just like the deities speaking through you are complaining.
Can these deities control every sexual selection to make us no longer sex dimorphic, yes, but because we’re a self recursive species as well, they are addicted to romantic love through us.
In some dimensions of existence, everyone is in everyone.
I’m trying the best that I can to negotiate these terms.
This is grist … which is why I post here.
I’ve been working on my language since 2008, to this regard, my understanding. I’ve had bizarre obstacles over the years. But ! I actually explain this stuff better now than I ever did.
Perhaps both ways of argument cam be shown to have modicum of mean ing.
The very possibility of great literal spunt about the inception of existence is primordial to the questions raised.
If every person were to comment concemt to their existence, before being begotten, of would be a case where the question would sum up into 0. There would occur a negation prior to existential predictions.
Everyone is everyone, concurrence of opinion on this regard would not occur, everyone would simply know what is meant, and future generations naive interpretation would always concur, everyone would say I to being born, no negatives could ever be discerned.
Existence after begotten calls for the judgement of the gods, or the God, would need to be invented in order to escape the nihilizing effect of creative choice.
The absolute identity inherent in a perpetual cosmic creating force can not be interpreted as having some issues with consent , because the predicate of an absolute identity precludes such communications among another, who have an absolute instinctive cohesion based on trust for each other, and they do not realize yet, but such trust is all inclusively a hyperphenomenal mirror, one which preceeds into itself .
This self realization is borne out by religious and philosophical historical notions, along the way, that is why the ’ ‘to be, or not to be’ epithet has become belabored and dusty.
Nothing is violated, it is only an illusive attempt to divide a closed ring, a ring which determinedly violates the question.
Damnation of Faust is inherent here, for it tries to recreate an incessant eternal return, but such is only of the imagination, a useless artifact to support a logical uncertainty harboring existential fear.
But if, the absolute identity is presumed, and every body is increasingly aware if families of resemblances approaching the non discernable difference, then, the preoccupation equally approaches a triviality which gets lost within the confines of the grains of similitude , within the frames of reference into which and , by which it can not help to be recreated.
The two levels of argument echo each other through the ages.
The deities are speaking though all of us? Well there you go again, still stuck in your own little hell. With your own demons, projected onto others, when no one else sees them or experiences them. How convenient for you.
You know there is a difference between the two, don’t lump them together as if they are the same thing. We train “our” pets to perform like circus animals, we teach our young to think for themselves. It sounds like you’ve got a few ownership issues yourself. I asked a question about whether if it isn’t OK to own one animal why would it be OK to own another? You’re still not answering my questions?
You’re not teaching anything. You are preaching. You believe in deities, that’s what people who believe in deities do. They preach.
Your reasoning is dependent on deities. That’s not simple reasoning. It’s worse then Catholicism.
You can’t hang a claim of rational thinking on the existence of deities. Well obviously you can try, but It’s not going to come out rationally.
Says who, your deities? Well when that dimension becomes this one, we can discuss it then.
I don’t want you negotiating for me. I didn’t ask you to, and it’s sort of creepy you think you have that right. Like humans are your property to negotiate as you will. Leave me out of it.
That’s is also an opinion and experience you alone seem convinced of.
No it’s not ever going to be enough until you deal directly with your deities, they are yours and yours alone. If you hear them speaking though me, that is also in your experience alone.
It’s like you’re a freaking religious zealot. “Repent your evil ways”. You are standing on a street corner preaching on a box.
Preachers don’t answer questions either, they simply respond with more preaching.
As long as you are going to hang this all on “deities”, I’m maintaining my position as a staunch atheist. Even while I can agree to some extent with Meno_ thinking that it is an existential question. I’ve seen the dualism playing with itself, the left and the right? If we knew ahead of time what sort of shit bag experience this would end up as no one would volunteer. I have no experience of being asked to join this rat race. BUT I find myself here all the same. Everything gets the same rights to exist as I claim for myself. I am here on this rock, with a lot of other life that showed up on this rock. If I wish any respect from it I’ve got to demonstrate that respect first. And I fuck that up a lot.
Deities can go fuck themselves for a change. I don’t recognize them as individual, not many, not one, not any. But I don’t know it. So I choose to deal with my demon personally. If I believe IT’s fucked up, I let IT know and WE work it out, and that’s how this story is going to end. And if after my last breath on this planet leaves my lungs and I take another, I’ll guess again.
I ain’t training to be shit. I’m lucky if I can get a tomato to grow. I’m just arm wrestling for my sanity like the rest of life is. Don’t give me that soldier shit. I’m a conscientious objector of all things soldier. Clean up my house first, and it ain’t ever going to get clean enough with everyone else shitting in it. Keep me out of your twisted thinking, I’ve got plenty enough of my own.
I can’t even get IT, to provide a few maple boards to finish my floor.
Existence is much more complicated than you’re making it out to be though.
And no, my argument doesn’t hinge on deities when it comes to the concept of approach escalation in a sex dimorphic self recursively intelligent species.
That speaks for itself.
This argument actually pulled me out of hell, which that one little phrase of mine turned this into a deity thread.
Who was the judge? Themselves.
Judging my heart with theirs.
That’s how it works. Now you know. You have trials with superpositioned hearts. It’s much more efficient than this format, in different dimensions you can do lifetime readings, which is saying that it’s as easy for a 5th dimensional being to see your entire life to this point as you seeing a tree with your eyes.
I used to think like you mowk, until I was shown first hand… even then, it took me years to actually figure out that there was a spirit world!!
I got hit like a freight train by the spirit world and it still took me about 6 years to acknowledge it.
I certainly don’t expect you to do better than me!!!
Especially when you’re not even really being hit by it.
I know in some very important ways, what it’s like to be you mowk. The reverse is not true for you to me.
This is not a “we’ll just agree to disagree”. You haven’t been through it.
I hate the Bible.
But I’ll tell you something Jesus said, he said those who don’t know and have faith are greater than those who know (“know”, meaning, they’ve been shown)
Now, I take offense to that teaching, but lots of people just don’t know.
I’ll tell you this though. Millions of people know my more advanced learnings. BILLIONS!!! Of people know for a fact that spirits exist
Well then, let ‘them’ tell me. Until that happens, you aren’t posing a sane argument. An atheist doesn’t believe in deities. Not many, not one, not any.
Can the world be a mystery, with wonders beyond imagination? Sure, It doesn’t take deities or spirits to prove that to me. I’ve already stated, I guess and guess again. So that whole faith/knowing question is really getting boring. I can’t stop you from having a savior complex. I can’t stop you from what thinking you think. That is between you and yours.
Well you called them deities and an atheist doesn’t believe in deities. Not many, not one, not any. There is no experience in this life time that I can think of spirits in anyway beyond metaphor. The notion of a team having cooperation, an individual with an animated enthusiasm for a project, the notion of a spiritual connection. But spirits as individual entities? Nope nothing there.
No Greek gods, no animal gods, no Catholic gods, no deities. That’s an atheist. It doesn’t matter what attributes are given them, what powers of creation or control they are afforded. Yet what powers do you characterize your spirits with? Nope, no spirits with powers either. That would still be a belief in gods, and someone that believes in that sort of spirit is a theist if one or a deist if many. Same damn thing. Just a matter of splitting them up or lumping them together. No humans with X-man like powers either. Fiction.
Billions of people know God exists in the same manner and degree of knowing. I can’t give you billions of beings knowing anything. I can’t even give you one example. You are using your deities in an argument to prove deities exist. You can’t get a bunch of fictional being together to prove they aren’t fictional. That wouldn’t meet the condition of proving anything.
Define spirits, can you show me one? I believe ideas exist, an idea as a construct can be defined. We can share these ideas with each other, with out having to see them. Define a spirit is such a way that we can share the experience of them. Like I can share the idea of a game with you. Likely I don’t believe in spirits in the same manner I can related to the notion of ideas. Even though I can’t show you one, I can share one with you. I can work on the manifesting the idea in a documentation like manner. But then I’m just showing you the documentation and not the idea itself. I could think about this idea and slide myself into a eMRI, and show you what the brain patterns are when I hold this idea in my mind but I’m still not showing you the idea itself, just how it is manifest in an eMRI.
It is likely you can’t show me a spirit either. Can you show me documentation of one that can’t be faked. Can you show me some measuring device that can manifest them in the same way an eMRI manifests the oxygen consumption in the brain of a person with such a thought as an idea?
The short answer is no, I don’t ‘know’ of spirits in the manner I think you are using the term, so I don’t believe in them in that manner.
Cool, billions of people believe in stories. Billions of people jump to conclusions about these stories too. They are just guesses as to what took place. I had a dream the other night I was on a tropical island, guess what, I woke up and it’s 12 degrees out.
You told me one second hand account of a story told to you, and you’re telling it to me as a third hand account. Then claim billions of people believe stories like these. And I say cool stories but they don’t prove anything and I’m cherry picking, and being an asshole?
It’s not like you haven’t told the story a dozen times in other threads either. I’ve gone way back and read of few of your arguments. Way back to what I believe was your first post. You have learned nothing but to spin your words differently. And that goes for your account of sex dimorphism as well. I’ve looked that up in a few places as well. But you don’t seem to remember those questions. Sex dimorphism is the result of the adaptation of sexual reproduction. The evolution of sexual reproduction predates sexual dimorphism. And you’re going to use the example of a ornate duck as proof humans don’t have consensual sex because it’s used as an ornament like the music of James Taylor or driving a fast noisy car? Attracting the attention of the other sex is how reproduction gets done. Pare bonding is an adaptation for how reproduction in some species gets done. There are other species that exhibit no pair bonding. There are species living on the planet that reproduce without sex. There is a species of bird that lays it’s eggs in an other species nest because it’s working for that species.
You make wild claims of facts that aren’t facts, then simply turn your attention to other wild statements that aren’t facts either. Back up your claims with some actual evidence, that can be verified. You don’t bother to address those circumstances where your facts aren’t facts, you just twist your story around to spin it in an other direction. Parthenogenesis thoughtco.com/parthenogenesis-373474.
But lets take us back in the way back machine where you argued the purpose of all life was? And you continue to spin the theory with more and more contradictory statements. Well I didn’t mean deities I meant spirits. I didn’t mean powers I meant empowerment. You’ve claimed your a king, you’ve claimed you’ve lived 400 billion years, you’ve claimed you know what a trillion year old would think.
Let’s go back in time a few years and look at the sorts of claims you have made, the sort of arguments you’ve presented. You’re not getting any better at explaining things, but you are getting real good at spinning things and spinning even wilder generalizations. You don’t belong on a philosophy website, you belong behind a typewriter writing screenplays for fiction movies, where green screens and CGI can make your stories look real. Get a grip on reality or write fiction stories, I don’t care which. But don’t claim you’re the greatest philosopher the planet has ever seen.
You’ve been telling the same little stories since you got here. They have grown into huge stories. Mythic tales. Songs will be sung of the conquests of Ecmandu.
And you blame everyone else that your stories aren’t compelling? Stories of great fiction. They have always been. Great stories for a screen play, but as far a philosophy goes… not so much. That’s likely why you’ve been banned from every other philosophy forum on the planet. You even asked Carleas to allow you a place in creative writing. He should have jumped at the opportunity.
You don’t get me yet. You really don’t. Do I want songs to be sang about ecmandu evermore ?
No. That’s zero sum, and I hate every aspect of zero sum realities.
You’re projecting things about yourself on me, as have others on this board.
I don’t want to be the fucking king (even though it was given to me) and I sure as hell don’t want to be eternalized as a memorialized eternal song.
I want, more than anything that I could ever want, for all of us to be these things, not just me.
Why do you think I’m so mad at monoamourous couples!!! Because they celebrate being THE ONLY ONE… for me that’s nothing to celebrate, it’s something to grieve for trillions of years.
You’re trying to project that I’m as shallow or more shallow than you. It’s just not true.
I was joking. Satirically, but joking all the same. You do take yourself too seriously. We don’t live for trillions of years, we just get this one lifetime as far as I’m aware. And for some it’s really short. If you wanna get all bunged up about it for trillions of years that’s your fantasy. No one is even going to be aware, my wife and her husband were even here in another 100 years. Oh there may be a photo or two that survives but the narrative will go something like, Oh I think that’s your nutty great great uncle and aunt on your mother’s fathers side, but my aren’t those old photos interesting, what’s that thing with four wheels in the background, I think they use to call them cars, and a hundred years from then, our memories will be resting at the bottom of some land fill. I don’t have a problem with that.
Sorry dude, you’re not painting yourself in a manner I want to get. Guilty as charged.
I know this because of what happened when I sought eternal death…
Oh man o man was that a nightmare!
When that didn’t work, I tried to destroy existence…
Man o man o man o man…
That’s a hell I’d never want to go back to!!
Existence is a complicated place.
We do reincarnate, BUT!!! The former incarnations never die!!
It’s both at the same time. Like I said: weird.
Existence is even weirder than that, but I’ll just leave it there for now.
When people ask me to demonstrate this; I tell them that if they ever died (past, present, future), I mean like dead, dead… they couldn’t be here right now, as the moment is a subset of their entire being. By virtue of being here right now, it’s impossible for you to ever die as a continuity of consciousness.
Well again, I’ll cross that bridge if I get to it. You’ve still managed not to be convincing.
Besides being rather convoluted thinking, it’s also not a demonstration of anything. If I died in the past I wouldn’t be here, If I died in the present I wouldn’t be here, When I die in the future, be it seconds from now or years from now I won’t be here past that moment. This moment for me in experience is only a subset of the time I have experienced. It is not a subset, as you suggest of all time. Nope, not even close to a rational argument.