It should be called Prismatic-Buddhism and Prismatic-Christianity because the word ‘proper’ suggests an orthodoxy which your versions do not have.
“Weightages” are clearly subjective and arbitrary, which is why they are not used in a philosophy argument.
Thanks. I meant it was generalizing in the sense of I could cited a specific appeal to authority of his, for example, or a bunch. I could have given specific examples of each general claim about his posting habits. Or I could have responded to a specific post and cited examples there. Of course, I have responded to specific posts and Phyllo has and you have, all of us making specific points.
and not the irony of saying that a former Christian’s views should be dismissed. Utterly odd. Here we have someone who has experienced the conscious and official beliefs in situ and then has rejected them. For example leaving Christianity should have brought up a huge fear of death. I would bet that if anything it brought up social fears and a fear of Hell.
Like anyone can take seriously putting numbers down from subconscious factors on people who have been dead for thousands of years.
Prismatic will not accept criticism or critiques of his arguements. He will always claim that there are no valid counters. Yet he appeals for counters, whilst believing that his arguements are sound. Its like inviting people to fish in an empty lake. (This, is a generalisation IMV).
With regards to giving up Christianity, I wasn’t suddenly afraid to die and go to hell. I just accepted that life ends and I’ll cease to exist. If the subconscious fear of death was as powerful as Prismatic believes, I doubt that I would of been able to give it up. If I end up in hell for being unable to believe somethimg, then God is nuts.
Prismatic,
Do we actually believe that this “perish” is suppose to mean that people believed that they would not die a physical death if they believed in Christ? Is this what John was teaching?
I think it is possible that what is meant by “perish” is that people will not be damned to hell for eternity if they would only believe in Christ. I think that “everlasting life” after death was the main focus and what they considered to be their just award in view of the perhaps miserable lives they may have been living.
Prismatic,
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I think this is over-simplified… There are varying degrees of living that human-beings engage in. Not everyone “strives” to live. Also, if someone does strive to live, we cannot leap to the conclusion that they are doing so to avoid death. That is an assumption, certainly not a conclusion which takes many factors into consideration.
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Firstly, imputed by what? IMV, the fear of death is in our conscious awareness, we just don’t think about it all of the time. There is obviously a relationship between the conscious and subconscious mind, but people avoid death by being consciously aware of what will kill them, so we could tenuously say that the subconscious is where information is stored, but we cannot claim that the information is constantly active, if you see what I’m saying. It’s dormant, until the threat of death comes to our awareness, but then I’m guessing. The fear of death could be in our conscious awareness, because we don’t know for sure what the capacity of the consciousness mind is, and what information is stored where (note my use of mind, not brain). I don’t know why you think you do? Certain claims relating to the subconscious are problematic to make, because it is not something we consciously experience, so obtaining empirical evidence is difficult, hence the theoretical nature of this area of investigation.
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I don’t understand how you could know that? What are “indirect existential pains”? Didn’t we discuss that you should explain terms like this?
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You need to explain what you mean by “indirect existential pains”. Also, this is a diagnosis.
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This conclusion doesn’t necessary follow from the premises. What if John 3:16 doesn’t relieve “indirect existential pains” (whatever that is)? Are you claiming that all Christians aren’t afraid to die, because John 3:16 suppresses the subconscious fear of death? When I was a Christian I was very afraid to die, and I still had existential questions, how would you explain that? Or is the actual experience of a Christian not valid here?
KT,
This is again cliche, but I would sum up Prismatic in the following way… “Having intelligence is one thing, knowing how to use it is another.”
(I’ve had way too much caffeine today 
)
Were you a proper Christian? 
Phyllo,
the irony causes me to sit back … Not by Prismatic’s standards. But anyway, only on Sundays 
.
phyllo,
So then, I do not presume that what you are saying here is that everything that we see and value and love and experience does not actually exist, that the reality is that it is all illusion.
Perhaps buddhists like to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Yes, this is true. At the same time, do we not recognize a slice of pumpkin pie as having its own properties or when we eat it, do we at the same time drag the rest of the pie along with it? lol That was a very poor example. Words just failed.
This is true. That is called a Self but I do not view it as an optical delusion. We are not the Borg. That same human being is also capable of sensing and feeling connected to everything in the universe perhaps more so because he realizes that he is not all alone like an island. He has himself. Why does it have to be just one way or the other?
It is true though that there are individuals who feel this way in a negative way. They are usually called narcissists or megalomaniacs and they have false selves. One comes to my mind. lol
The way I look at it, the individual who is a whole person, a whole self, who sees their self as also being a part of something, experiencing their inter-connectedness, but at the same time also as a unique individual who knows who they are, who is capable of both seeking their place in the world and knowing when they have found it – this is the kind of person who can reach out, who will widen their circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty, in their own unique way, spending their life as William James said, for something which will outlast it.
If someone is not fully “whole” in their own self, how would they have the “conscious awareness” to accomplish the things which need to be done in this world? What kind of a person would that be other than one who seeks a cause for the thrill of it, that experience soon fading away or the one who would allow their self to be used or abused in the name of some cause because they did not have a sense of their own true identity or “individuality”.
People who do not have a strong sense of “true” self are lead to lose the already waning self and identity which they have. This is why some are drawn to cults or to other unhealthy, negative symbiotic relationships.
Again, what is it about us which seems to want to deny what is clearly there or could be there? The despots of the world may just love the buddhist.
“Conscious awareness” is not required.
That assumes some static “true self” in there.
On the contrary. When the Buddhist eliminates cravings, desires and attachments, he/she cannot be controlled by a despot. Threats, punishments and rewards have no effect. The Buddhist has complete freedom of action.
It is not perceived knowledge of the subconscious mind.
It is a scientific fact, all humans has a mind comprising a conscious and unconscious part.
Note;
simplypsychology.org/unconscious-mind.html
If you read the above article you will definitely agree with the demarcation.
You disagree with the above?
Yes, no belief and acceptance in their ‘heart’ of Christ/God as savior.
There are many Muslims and other refugees in the USA who superficially convert to Christianity because that will expedite them to be citizens.
Not my diagnosis.
The above reasons are commonly reported in testimonies by atheists who convert to Christianity, Islam and other theistic religion.
Even Christians who convert to Islam and vice versa will give similar reasons.
I have read of many testimonies from those who converted to Christianity or Islam, that they feel their mental burdens and pains are relieved immediately upon surrender and accepting Christ or Allah respectively as savior.
I have read of 100s of such testimonies. Suggest you read a significant number if you haven’t.
In the case of some who converted to Islam, the relief they get from being Muslim is so precious, they are willing to obey Allah to kill non-Muslims or even kill themselves to retain that relief in paradise.
I have given my argument the fundamental reason why people are driven to Christianity-proper is due to the compelling indirect impulses from the subconscious fear of death.
This is supported with evidences re the concept of death from the authorized texts of all the major religions.
Therefore one can make the inference from the effects to the cause based on the above evidences.
What I called ‘proper’ [truer] is how it is objectively judged against what are in the authorized texts of Buddhism and Christianity.
The authorized texts of Buddhism and Christianity are readily available anyone can verify my claims to what is in the authorized texts whether what I claim is true or not.
I had defined Buddhism-proper is based on the core principles of Buddhism, i.e. the 4NT, the 8 Fold Paths, the core principles of anicca, anatta, co-dependent origination, Sunyata, the Two-truths theory, the Middle-Way and others [?] which are supported by their various sub-principles, various forms of practices, etc.
Show me where I am wrong in this?
It is the same where I had defined what is Christianity-proper which you will not be able to point out I am wrong. If so, where?
“Weightages” or otherwise priorities are used in philosophical arguments but they are not generally quantified.
While weightages are generally subjective, they can be objective if supported with evidence. For example, if 55% of the 6236 verses in the Quran are anti-Non_Muslim then we can infer quite objective there is high degree of hatred for non-Muslims.
The caution with weightages is if the % are very close like between 1% and 3% then any inference will not be realiable.
However there is some sense of reliability if the % is between an estimated 90% and 10% and this can be justified by actual results and experiences.
I have accepted many criticisms.
The latest arguments I have presented had been revised upon criticisms.
I used the phrase, “DNA-RNA wise all human have been programmed with …”
It is criticized as implying the existence of a programmer or creator of the program.
I avoided that term even though I meant it metaphorically as ‘programmed’ by nature.
I have also changed certain premises.
It is the default for any one to present their thesis which one has polished to defend it as much as possible until it is proven it cannot be true.
When I invite for counters, there is likely to be someone who will give counters from their perspective and I will assess whether what they countered is justified to be true.
Such a stance is typical with Science and all fields of knowledge.
Yes it is VERY powerful and the majority has succumbed to its power to theism.
That you are able to overcome the instinct of your subconscious mind in this aspect, it is a sign you have made a very significant improvement [a paradigm shift] in your conscious will power to be more human than being an animal [dominated by the subconscious impulses and instincts].
You have used critical thinking, psycho-analysis and rationality to mitigate the terrible forces of the subconscious mind in this aspect [not necessary others].
It is the same with most people who can modulate their lusts and other potentially harmful impulses from the subconscious mind.
I saw a 60-Minute Program which claim pedophiles are born as evidenced by neuro-imagings. While some of those who are born-pedophile molest children, there is a group of pedophiles who consciously and rationalize to control their pedophilic impulses from their subconscious mind which they cannot stop the impulses.
youtube.com/watch?v=OiquubYVbWQ
It is obvious ‘perish’ means not having eternal life.
The the term ‘perish’ here in contrast to eternal life, imply something terrible, i.e. dying from physical death with nothing to look forward except be burnt in Hell.