What's in a name?

I’m a Chinese fire dragon and a Sagittarius…

I know from my high school class that astrology was bullshit.

I have great signs, but so did they.

So all this time of study, and the question never came up before? I can understand how that could happen.

No, astrology of incubator births hasn’t been a specialty of mine. Im sure countless theses and probably some books have been written on it though. Though it could be said that my Turus cousin who was in an incubator has a lot of Gemini qualities this is nothing to go on at all, everyone has Gemini qualities as Gemini was somewhere whenever someone was born, and this is one case in one hypothesis. Astrology is only interesting where great masses of evidence point to a fact. Being a body of methodological applied knowledge, it is approached as a science or not approached at all.
Id reckon your natal chart is accurate in any case - your stage in the incubator would for example have been a progressing moon in the 12th house coming out at the ascendant or rather the 4th house cusp point at the moment of your release.

If Id approach it I could probably tell when you were released from your natal chart.

Fire Dragons and Sagittariuses are extremely vain, presumptuous, and wise.

Can you explain how your knowledge of astrology has actually affected your life in any positive way
Something for which there is no other explanation so it could not have happened to you otherwise

Like any science enriches a scientists life; most dominant of all effects it has is a constant being in awe of these majestic realities. A constant awareness of the astronomical situation around me is also an advantage. And it has helped me make people understandable to themselves but that is never completely undivided pleasure. Ive not yet tried to make money with it.

It makes the world a lot more vast and complicated, it confronts you with a lot of titanic facts, and it shows that “sense-making” in a contemporary way isn’t really very advanced.

I was anticipating you saying that it gives meaning to your life in the same way a belief system does
That you have found peace of mind as a consequence of it but you seem to be saying something else

I have zero knowledge of it and would never actually use it myself but I am interested in what human beings believe and why they believe what they do
You say you are in awe of majestic realities but you could have that without astrology so maybe for you it just makes the awe that little bit more special

I am in awe of things in majestic realities like black holes and neutron stars for example and more so because I can understand them through physics
The more you understand something like this then the greater the appreciation is although we are using entirely different means of appreciation here

It gave me the opposite of peace of mind as I was immersed in it in some moments that shattered me when I was 20, I also had suddenly weird magical powers and my coherent causal linear universe was shredded. It was so horrifying to find that no rational law Id know applied to this. But I learned to live with it and eventually learned ways to navigate my own chart.

I used to want to be an astronomer, or I was an amateur astronomer until I was 16 when I got a video camera and turned to filmmaking. Then this weird crisis came and then astrology came into the picture. It is really not such a merciful science. I found out how tremendously taxing my chart is and how it was bound to keep bringing me down, next to all kinds of lofty powers, and I simply confronted it and wrought some understanding of myself in relation to some powerful and unorthodox authority figures due to some personal alchemy in my psyche using the psycho-chemical substances of the solar system and the zodiac.

Gods as they exist in pantheons are always correspondences to planets, and these correspondences are always the same ones, regardless of culture or age. Astrology doesn’t give value judgments and doesn’t deify the planets, it is rather an observation of what exists, what kind of frictions of qualities are at the core of this or that being. It is impersonal. A bad tempered or ill intended chart reader could ruin someones psyche by making a very accurate but partial and particularly cruel analysis. And that happens, then they sell you ointments, and magical boons. You can see into someones psyche infinitely sharper than you can with psychoanalysis. But then when you see truly deep, I also tend to see situations there people might rather not be aware of, and which might indeed be disturbed into unnatural motions when some partial light of understanding is cast upon it.

On the other hand if you’re out to make someone dependent on you, a natal chart is an invaluable tool.

Its much sooner a burden than that it makes life easier - but in turn it is sooner a treasure than a burden. Its … power, its not tame.

I talk about neutron stars here a bit, at the end.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKK5hlXTrc[/youtube]

So you’re a physicist, huh? a real one. Got a masters degree at least and working in the field? Employed for a long time unraveling the mysteries of the universe?

I won’t ask the second half of my question again, cause it would be an insult to someone who is a physicist. I teach at a tech college, you can find my name as a faculty member. You could even search on the classes I teach. I’m interested in a lot of shit besides that, but I don’t claim to be anything but what I am.

You don’t have to provide answers to shit I ask. But a scientist would ask the question.

So if I knew your name and googled your company I’d find some validation you are the physicist you say you are? I’ve been around the block a time or two. Smells like something other then the genuine artifact. You know how many people claim the role of authority in argument of their point? A lot. Most of it is bullshit. But every once in a while I meet the actual true to earth artifact. It would be a pleasure.

I’d actually have some questions for you that a physicist would have no trouble answering. My nephew was an astrophysics major. I asked him a problem relating to the design of an airfoil. It took him a day to respond with the degree of inclination I needed for the structure I was trying to create. And he was a full time student and tutoring math on the side. You back off from the second grade question I have asked like it would require some special training.

A real scientist would have began with that as a control condition. Who really signs your pay check?

Then lets discuss your notion of ego. I got a monster, hows yours stacking up? Sorry no credentials required to post a YouTube video under a made up username. Not impressed.

Certificate of Live Birth. Florida. 1360 USAF Hospital, Orlando Florida. 7624 Waring Avenue.
D.O.B: Sept xx 1959. Birth weight: 5 lbs. 1 oz.
Father, 1st Lieutenant. U. S. Air Force.
Mother xxxxxxxxxxx
2 previous births. No twins or triplets. Not really that specific.

7624 Waring Ave, Orlando, FL 32812 | Zillow
[Search domain zillow.com/homedetails/7624 … 3826_zpid/
The property at 7624 Waring Ave, Orlando, Florida is a Residential Single Family property, built in 1957.

1360 USAF Hospital, Orlando Florida, 1959. Google that and see what you find. But of course internet records don’t go back that far.

So how valid would any astrological chart be? Ya think it’s going to reveal anything about who I really am? Not if DOB is the only thing you’ve got to go by, and in my circumstance that’s sort of iffy.

Yeah I tried to look. So I guess it doesn’t always do that to people.
But truth onto self, that’s a pretty good place to begin. So unless you’ve got some job at MIT or something. Anything to back up the claim “that You’re talking to a physicist, by the way.”

Even Ted Talks gives the name of their speakers.
youtube.com/watch?v=zORUUqJd81M

I also checked into the role of preemies on astrology. Most references sighted no effect. It’s your date of birth regardless.

Found a site for a free chart, don’t know the time of birth but they had an option unknown T.O.B.
Sort of half right half wrong with a lot of saying something positive in one aspect and the opposite in another aspect. Really far off with regard to my need for order and arrangement. Also I’m suppose to be a social person that makes friends easily and with high sense for style. Not so much, Introvert and I don’t give a rats ass about style.

All in all I didn’t find the interpretation very informative, revealing or particularly accurate regarding knowledge of self. I know myself better than astrology does.

That’s where the vast ambiguity of astrology comes in. Probably also part of it’s development as a pseudo-science. There has to be a way to explain what first strikes you as inaccurate as in fact being fully explained… if only you look closer.

Joe’s sun sign has him as introverted, but he doesn’t feel that way at all. Ah, it’s because his rising sign is a cardinal fire sign, aries. But wait, he doesn’t have a temper like a typical aries. Ah, it’s because his moon is in virgo. On and on these go to explain away all the discrepancies.

Oh there’s certainly explanations for these things, but they have nothing to do with the position in space of Neptune and Pluto when you popped out of the womb.

Seems like the genes you are born with would be far more useful in explaining character traits.

I do not know what someone reading my astrological chart would be able to tell me about myself that I do not already know anyway
I also cannot see any logical connection at all between the moment of my birth and the position of the planets at that specific time

I think it is wrong to even label astrology as a pseudo science because that is giving it too much credibility when it has absolutely no scientific basis at all
Astrologers are not scientists and psychology and psychiatry are much better disciplines at understanding human nature more than astrology will ever be

I think it came from a time when scientific explanations for natural phenomena were not as accepted as they are today and religious ones were much more favoured
Of course it was science that discovered that the Earth was not the centre of the solar system so any astrological chart before then would have been seriously flawed

Also an astrological chart at the time of your birth will be fixed but you as a person over your lifetime are in a state of perpetual change
You are not a machine that performs like clockwork to a set of pre ordained prescriptive rules because that is not how we function at all
We are in a state of flux from birth to date which is determined by our psychological make up and the environment that we interact with

The claim that astrology works because what happens in our brains is not independent of what happens outside of them is a non sequitur as it stands
I would want to see something much more convincing than that before I could start to take that claim seriously because right now I see nothing at all

Obviously nothing in the Universe operates entirely independently of anything else but that does not mean
however that there is a direct causal link between any two random phenomena as that is definitely not true

The link between psychopathy and full moons is even more of a non sequitur and is not even remotely serious
I would want to see the so called evidence this nonsensical claim is based on to see why it is accepted as such

Evidence is the only thing that will convince me about any claim and so in the absence of any I become skeptical
Even if the claim in question is true unless it can be demonstrated to be so it really should not be accepted at all

I agree. Currently a birth chart is a mistaken piece of documentation. Like Fixed stated, It’s not so much a snapshot but a map.

But how specific could a horoscope be if it were a continuously running program that took your specific spatial position on the planet into account in every moment it was queried?

I stand 6 ft tall and the view of this planet around me as result of it’s size and curvature allows me a six mile diameter horizon of the planet. Moving my location just six miles would allow me to see a slightly different star field. Some stars in the direction I moved would become visible over the horizon and some stars I was moving away from would become obscured. Just changing my elevation on the planet has a similar effect, making my horizon larger as I move higher in elevation. Simply cutting the planet in two at the equator to determine the star field in the northern or southern hemispheres is a dramatic over simplification itself.

One of my problems with astrology is I have never seen the question asked what was your elevation at the time of your birth? Elevation would change the size of your horizon, and as result the angular relationship to all the planets as well. I don’t ever get to see half the stars in the sky as I can never see beyond the curvature of the planet. What if for example I was born on a satellite in geosynchronous orbit directly above a particular coordinate position on the planet, say on the moon if it were in a geosynchronous orbit. My distance from the planet would be great enough that my horizon view of the planet would be the size of disc out in space, I would be exposed to a far greater number of stars and the planets in their orbits would be obscured by the planet earth for far less time. If it is angular relationship to the planets that defines a birth chart and what influences it, a chart for someone born in geosynchronous orbit would have to be much different then that of a person born at a specific location and time on the planet. The sun and all the planets would become visible, and the effect based on angles and what is visible and what is obscured and their anticipate results would have to change as well.

If I were born at the top of cliff or at sea level at the base of the cliff my angles in relationship to all the planets would be different. Every astrological chart I’ve looked at has a two dimensional position on the planet and a time. I haven’t found one that asks what your elevation is, and elevation changes the size your horizon. The higher up you go the larger the horizon becomes. Imagine in the future inhabiting the moon. A child born on the moon would have entirely different angles and vantage points to the planets then someone born on earth. Being born at sea level would give you a different chart then being born at 5,000 ft. I’ve seen no evidence that, to date, astrology has taken this into account. Astrology is based on simple angles and I’ve seen no evidence that it takes into account an azimuth.

If at ground level your horizon is just 1.3 miles or defines a circle 2.6 miles in diameter, then two people born just 6 miles apart at the same date and time should have dramatically individual charts as their personal horizons would expose a different star field and different planetary positions in the sky and a child born on a plane 30,000 feet over head would have a different chart as well.

And man is just an animal, if this effect takes place for man then every animal on the planet would be subject to the same reasoning. But to ask astrology to take these complexities into account is asking a lot from a pseudo science. The first question on the chart should be what’s your species? Because the same rules should apply to every EM emitting life form on the planet. The horoscope of a house plant should change if I moved it to a different window. At the very best astrology is an extremely over simplified codification system, how ever complex the calculations of all the variable are.

And that doesn’t even begin to explain how a celestial mass as far away as Pluto can effect any life form that comes into being, on a specific planet in a solar system. What is the effect of the planet earth if you were born on Mars? Find the mechanism of this effect, don’t just postulate it as result of a correlation being a cause.