Educated and raised, not just educated… but we were part of a polite and well-mannered Community.
For me, there are more helpful traits to foster than humility… I’d rather go out there and do good or be proactively helpful, so fostering a balanced character is more essential to my self than any one specific trait… I cannot answer for others as to what is essential for them.
I appreciate others’ efforts and good gestures and express that, but is that humility or a combination of traits in play in expressing appreciation to others?
Humility is something that I don’t have to rely on or use… there are other aspects that I do.
Oh, you say I missed a spot. Gee you’re right, thanks.
Gets the bucket and scrub brush out again. Over here somewhere you say. I should clean the whole floor again just to be sure. Thanks.
Like picking weeds in my garden. Gives me some time to think. Man oh man they were thick this year.
And on another note, the wife (for my benefit, not yours) just got home from a business trip and I gave her the biggest hug, and whispered in her ear. I am sorry. She hugged me and whispered back, what’s that for?
I didn’t answer and hugged her again, but what crossed this mind, was some one who’s respect for, I thought I had lost, suggested it in a rather unusual way.
It’s odd what you can see in a mirror when you aren’t confronting it square on.
You’re going to have to squeeze me a lot harder then that, after the last time. Hugs are better.
This time I would hope to think I’m just feeding the fish, I’ve set the pole aside. Worms for all, no hooks attached.
As far as the bolded portion. The moderation seems pretty good. I don’t see much and there don’t seem to be too many problems. Laissez-faire, it seems, as a base, which, if it works, is a good base. It seems like there are even areas with no moderation, but maybe that’s not true. I got a message once from a moderator, more or less, suggesting I tone down, seeing how I was doing. That seemed like a lovely approach. Not saying approaches have to be lovely, but it was, and I’d gotten out of hand.
That is not the case with everyone, KT… it would be ideal if it was though.
Not everyone reacts favourably to even the most pleasant of DM requests to tone things down… some replies can be so overly-aggressive and even abusive, as to make one think… wtf, why? I can assure you that how you react to something politely requested, is not how all act to something politely requested… why ever would you assume they do?
On that note, I depart this thread… never to return.
So you see humility as separate to doing good or being proactively helpful.
As a less helpful trait, you don’t use it or rely on it and it takes a back seat to the larger goal of fostering a balanced character - suggesting humility is not really necessary to being balanced.
Basically you don’t really bother with humility because you don’t see the point, yes?
Well… that says a lot.
Of course gratitude and appreciation are valuable - without them, one makes it very hard for others to want to cooperate and enjoy the fruits of doing so. Moreso the more reason others have to appreciate you - and the same goes for humility, though they are not the same thing.
Chiefly, showing gratitude and appreciation encourages reciprocation such that you receive gratitude and appreciation in return. Showing humility may equally inspire humility in others but it gets you nothing in return.
The strong in character do not need anything in return, in fact it is uncomfortable to receive anything in return when you already have so much. Humility is a necessity for such people. As with gratitude and appreciation, they show humility to unload a surplus.
The weak can mimic the former but not the latter, because - as I explained they get the gratitude and appreciation that they lack in return for showing it, and humility gains them nothing and loses them too much.
So appreciation and gratitude, whilst valuable, are therefore expected either way - but humility is a dead giveaway. It is the opposite of an irrelevant trait that you can simply “not use”.
Be as well mannered and polite as you like, your education and way you were raised have done you a great disservice even if you weren’t actually weak - weakness is what you have learned to project.
This will be why you clung onto redundant moderator status, it’s why you were unsuited to it and it’s why it was taken away from you.
It will also be why you won’t be able to bear to admit this, it’s why you’ll never unlearn your weakness and it’s why you will continue to come up with the same barriers over and over.
And you’ve declared your departure from a challenging opportunity to grow so the lesson will unsurprisingly fall on deaf ears.
Anyone can dismiss this as an attack, but the only way to overcome weakness is to have it shown undeniably that you have it - so you’re forced to confront even the unpleasant of truths, leaving you no choice but to take responsibility. Well, either that or run away/shift focus and suffer for it for however long you can stand to avoid it.
I’m just annoyed that I keep having to put up with these character flaws in others everywhere I go, and nobody does anything about it. It’s only made harder when these people are accidentally given the positions of power they seek to shield them from hard realities - I’m sure we have all experienced good managers who inspire, for example, and by contrast those who only end up inflicting their flaws on others and making everything worse for everyone. It’s nice to see the latter undone on the rare occasion that it is.
Since you have withdrawn from the discussion, suffice to say that I congratulate the decision making here, and my point stands that humility is necessary for moderation and every position of authority.
Now that was poignant and profound to me ~ beautiful. It moved me. I had wondered if you had a lump in your throat and that is why you didn’t answer.
It was also an aspect of what, to me, real humility is ~ self awareness, appreciation and gratitude.
Without the capacity to be humble, we cannot feel remorse, truly “see” the beauty of this world, experience those “aha moments” and Know our place in this Universe.
As Carleas said about formality, humility too “is a form of costly signaling”. Anything that’s costly is honest - the principle of Zahavian Signalling.
I just remembered a quote from the film “The Libertine”, where Johnny Depp’s character John Rochester says “any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense.”
You are annoyed? because your expectations of what you want things to be like are not met? well that’s a very mature outlook you’ve got there.
Humility is not the main necessary trait for authority (or leadership)… appreciation and gratitude encompass humility, and fosters a more positive and productive outcome than humility alone.
Why do you crave humility in those in an authoritative position? this says more about you than it does about me or anyone else.
I think graciousness is a better-needed quality in a moderator than humility, in appreciating the cooperation of others… humility does not allow for that.
In fact… I watched a programme last night, about these humble Japanese charitable givers… their humility was a complete block to any interaction or dialogue with those they helped… they, as a charitable concept, died out.
I’ll intercede to give my perspective on silhouette and that who’s name should never be spoken:
Silhouette, you’re pedantic to a fault
That who’s name should never be spoken,
You are a walking ball of projection. To get out of projection is a lifelong process that very few participate in: I know that you’ve chosen this task for yourself, so I wish you the best in it
I think that graciousness IS a good thing. I also think that firmness, impartiality and respect are needed qualities in a moderator. I also realize that being human that is not always an easy path to walk.
I just came upon this. I love wolves. “The tiger and the lion may be more powerful but the wolf does not perform in the circus.”
Yes, regretably. Perhaps a flaw of my own for being worn down over the years.
You seem to be implying that wanting things to be better than they are is immature? Certainly it’s more common for young people to want things to be better and more common for old people to give up trying and just accept things as they are, but it’s quite another thing to imply that the good intentions behind wanting things to be more preferable are “immature”.
Now you’re trying to say that you do show humility as encompassed in other things you point out as important? Which is it? Last post you were saying “Humility is something that I don’t have to rely on or use…”
This is just getting dishonest now.
And no, I’m not saying humility is all you need - I said quite clearly “Of course gratitude and appreciation are valuable”, and a great many other things besides.
It is, however, humility that stands above others in that unique way that only the strong and competent can endure it and the weak cannot.
The implication here being, of course, that some people might “need” humility in others as a result of their own psychological flaws. Perhaps they want to feel more superior or less inferior or something like that, yes?
Wide of the point as expected, in your attempt to reduce a general point to a specific case. More dishonesty.
Humility is both something that the strong and competent feel the need to show, and that the weak and incompetent can’t stand to show - the fact that it makes respect for the humble come easier is just a bonus. It’s not a thing that I specifically need, it’s not even just that it’s better in general, it’s that it’s highly revealing in a key way whether you choose to adopt humility or not.
So humility is “not something you use”, it’s also “encompassed in the appreciation that you do use”, and now “humility doesn’t allow for appreciating the cooperation of others”!!!
Do you even think before you write? How contradictory can you get?
Of course humility allows for both graciousness and appreciation! I’ve explained how they’re not the same thing, but the very act of shifting focus away from yourself and praising another instead is humble - there’s an overlap here. But it’s where humility doesn’t overlap that makes it so key as an honest and costly expression of strength and competence, which is what is wanted for those with authority, no? Who wants the weak and incompetent in power? Which is more respectable and easier to accept in general, regardless of me in particular?
So a slippery slope fallacy now, is it?
Even water is bad for you if you consume to excess… too much oxygen will kill you etc.
Enough with all this lame, contradictory and fallacious denial. What is preventing you from communicating even the slightest consideration of humility as a merit?
Why in education is one encouraged to argue as many sides to the point as possible? It’s the futile deadlock of modern politics where everyone doubles down on opinion and demonises the other as wrong in the absolute.
Why not show some education here?
I’ll lead by example - I fully accept that too much humility can be counterproductive as the programme you watched rightly pointed out. It can be abused by others, it can be used as a mask for self-loathing and perhaps bottle up passive aggression - like all things it’s not an absolute good, I’m sure you can agree with me here? Perhaps this is in part why you’re so averse to it? My point of course is that when done rightly, it’s indispensible to the best leadership and authority, and when ignored will lead to poor leadership, being ineffectual and unfit for authority as we have recently witnessed.
Being humble doesn’t make much of a difference (if any) to a situation, if someone’s intent is to disrupt and irk, so being smart… both emotionally and intellectually, is needed.
I have learned nothing from this exchange, apart from what you think how others/I should be. Humility has its place, and I’m smart enough to know if and when it’s necessary to be so… not on somebody else’s say-say.
You can argue with that all day long, but you will be arguing with yourself…
I’ve always been a lone wolf. Grasping the social intellectual hierarchy, like what these Moderators do, connecting with social circlets, and invoking wrath against evil doers seems just so alien and weird. I’ve always been interested in distributing ideas, but never laws.
When it comes to philosophy, the pen is always free. That’s something that we can all relate to, Moderators, and just regular customers.
I’m not really sure that I understand the nature of abuse. Moderators come in to set up walls and restrictions, but what about bridges? Perhaps disputes between Moderators and common folk build too many walls, and not enough bridges.
And then, if we look at people like Iambiguous, he/she is an “ILovePhilosophy Legend”! He’s been rewarded for giving people like me his/her opinion on everything!
Man, if there’s a guy/girl curious about a thousand different things, it’s him/her.
But MagsJ seems to give service with a smile on - she’s your happy meal toy of the day!
forbes.com/sites/jeffhyman/ … /humility/ - the leadership attributes outlined in this article, that are being called humbleness, are not new attributes, just because they are being associated with a word.
Those interpersonal attributes have been around and taught for eons… whether they fall under the banner of humility or not, they are not new traits. This reminds me of the new buzzword for planning-meeting or huddle… ‘scrum’… this is simply a matter of renaming a process to ensure the hiring of those that use the new label over those that don’t, so does that mean that they are the better candidate for that job?
I can assure you that how you react to something politely requested, is not how all act to something politely requested… why ever would you assume they do?
