Curious.

Mowk,

Mind fucks consist of the ability to separate the fuck of the mind from that of the body.
Is it determinative that we are socially fucked, as a whole, or does our strength consist of striking back against the leveling power that our will can resist?
Can we establish a perceived boundary whereby we can identify the forces which try to reduce such awareness?

For boundaries are established for that purpose as well, and when internal enemies appear to overwhelm this capacity, the exportation of that power becomes necessary to prevent internal collapse.
Internal collapse is the appearance of a state of awareness, where conflicting (values) - parties, are perceived as interpenetrable, and mixed beyond recognition. The identifiable characteristics of such change, dilute and appear to change the abstracted conceivable product, whereas, structural differentiation remains intact on primary levels.

How this is done is no mistery, changes in value are left unperturbed, by the processes of unavailability, of primary constructions of power.

It means very little to model secondarily processed simulated reductions of appearent value, since with increasing capital accumulations, the surgically changed appearent diminished value, at par with increased social numerical expansion, identifiable characteristic types appear to dissolve at par with rates of dissolution.
Note: appearent material dissolution can overcome a nominal sense of resolution, as at par with the laws governing de-construction.

That is at the source of contention between material and immaterial dialectic. It is not apparently reducible, and ends in contradiction. Primary types of being are not reducible existentially, without a perciable contradiction to nothingness.
Communism, literally is unsupportable in terms of Rousseau’s description of social contract, and when certain intolerable limits are reached, the dynamic tends to curve under it’s own weight, and singularly, appearent alienation takes it’s course within the supposed pseudo Kantian synthetic logic.

This hypothesis begs further analysis, as historically, at least, signaling a possible emergence of such a model.

Rosa Luchtensein’s failure, consisted in the in recognition of this lack of transparency into the failure of the primacy of unsustained eidectic reduction, even if, she had innately realized it’s relation to the phenomenologically reduced Being into Nothingness.
Sartre’s failure is consistent with his abandonment of Communism post Nov.1956-1957.

Note: please do not look at the above as an unsupportable exposition or even diatribe, to support the idea of alienation, (to self victimize or anything else) , ((Reismann, The Vanishing Adolescence)), or even attempts to undermine my’ appearance as ‘being around the block’ , etc.,but only an attempt to explore new ground, within and without the current administration’s position , as it seems almost fallacious.

It’s s just that, from the moment I came to ILP, I expressed my desire to write in likeliness , of expectation of mirroring Dostoevsky’s “Letters from Underground” ( and again in semi likened), as iambig points out rightly that my objection to nihilism as criticism , while partially being submerged in appearance serves somewhat an excercise in irony.

No I wasnt being sarcastic you asshole. Jesus.
The way you formulated the issue is brilliant.

Is the left brainwashed? If so, by whom? They are surely completely deranged and a danger to their own survival, and their totalitarian approach to being insane is guarantee that all kinds of nasty cvil wars are going to break out.
I think KP is right, these are people with no agency. Certainly proof that “human being” as such is not worth much.

But my suspicion has always been, at least since I understood false flag operations in a Nietzschean, long term sense, that these civil wars are being deliberately provoked, thus that the left is deliberately being brainwashed by Nietzschean groups that are convinced that mankind can only reach some form of seriousness, some way of not being a disease, through very heavy and dangerous struggle with its nature.

Leftism at this point is a threat in the sense that it is pure stupidity coupled with pure weakness couple with pure cowardice and all this in extremely great numbers. I think we can all agree on that.
But what is the long term effect of this?
What happens when “the right” (actual human individuals) are provoked into action?

I think thats the interesting and tantalizing question.

All conservative groups I know are poised now, guns cocked and axes sharpened, to go to war. And if such a war comes, then the outcome of it is a truly new world.

An interesting notion. I’m not sure yours is complete in its description. A mind fuck to me is intellectual, it is a substitution of a belief for knowledge; a guess based on personal experience alone, usually relying on conditions that can’t be repeated or empirically ascertained by persons other then those who hold the belief.

If I were to knowingly attempt to claim I had created a perpetual motion machine when in reality I was just cleverly contriving its appearance, that would be a mind fuck. It’s a “magic” trick not unlike the illusions magicians rely on. Present an experience in such a way as to fool someone into believing their experience was true. A misdirection of attention such that the person believes in the validity of their experience. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes… The rouse being they didn’t see it with their own eyes. What was actually taking place was hidden from their perceptions.

The universe is not the author of mind fucks, it’s just the stage on which they are perpetrated. Several animals on the planet use misdirection in this way, or attempt to. Some use it as a means of acquiring food, and more complex animals use it as a means to satisfaction of ego. As in I’m so smart you’ll just have to believe me cause you just ain’t smart enough to grasp any measure of it on your own, and even if I attempt to assist you, it will escape your capacity to grasp it.

If you are the only one on the planet that believes something is true, it is the best indication it isn’t. If, in order to substantiate what you believe is true, you rely solely on other things in which only you believe, it is also a fair indication it isn’t. It doesn’t depend on how much time to claim to have invested or how smart you claim yourself to be. Passing it off as a fact is a mind fuck.

“If you are the only one on the planet that believes something is true, it is the best indication it isn’t.”

Like these fools Newton and Copernicus should have known. It’s best to distrust your findings because the rabble around you knows best.

Brilliant.

[tab]that was sarcasm.[/tab]

Which is why here is no such thing yet as “human being” -

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omtRsUqMN6c[/youtube]

As long as there are humans who consider what they do and what they are as separate things, our species is on the whole inferior to any other animal, or any organic lifeforms - as long as we believe we can go to work, do heinous shit there and then come back and not be heinous shit, our species is parasitic in the worst possible way.

It is mind boggling to conceive the possible resolutions. Scary.
Better to let it run its course than try to formulate it explicitly.

So I’m an asshole for this?

I can only imagine this post is your reference.

But I did not have much prior experience of a poster named barbarianhorde to find much assurance either way.

Man you must of thought I was an asshole way before this post. If you may have gone by other usernames, it would have only been a guess of mine as to whom you might be. One word “brilliant” could easily pass as sarcasm if one didn’t know any better. And I didn’t “know” any better, didn’t even have faith in my ability to guess.

I’ve been insulted way too many times on this board to take a single word response as anything more then sarcasm. And yes, I can be an asshole, people keep telling me that, so it must be true.

If I apologized for my confusion would you consider me any less? Seems like your mind is fairly made up on the matter.

“If you are the only one on the planet that believes something is true, it is the best indication it isn’t.”

My grandfather was the only one of his batch in Auschwitz who believed he would make it out alive, and he was the only one of his batch who did make it out alive.

It was a mild reproach, or meant as such. My later attacks are more serious.

Funny you should mention Newton and Copernicus. Do you believe for a moment, other people weren’t thinking along these lines all along. That they were soley unique in their thinking? That no one else could conceive of such relationships?

It is always a race for the credit with the human species. Yeah if it weren’t for these folks we give the credit to we’d all be left in the stone age.

And when back home and remarried (wife murdered by the consensus) he picks dup his studies and got his doctorate with a thesis “the praise of unadaptedness”, which is a step by step explanation of how what you’re saying here is precisely the opposite of how the world works. It was of course rejected by the establishment (the world disagreed, so he was wrong, right?) until suddenly it skyrocketed to fame in the 60s.

Oh God.
You clearly haven’t read these people or their contemporaries, and have fallen for the leftist mongoloids idea that “if they weren’t the lucky ones to have discovered it someone else would have!”

Bravo.
I see stupidity and mob-opinionating is closer to your heart than thought.

Anyone who has had a real thought in his life knows the absolute resistance these things cause in all of the world.

And there are indeed, very few people who have a thought and muster the courage to see it through, to see it proven.

And once it is proven there are still quite few who see it accepted.

The lefts fashionable idea on true thought is that it just “comes to the human species” without anyones individual genius being utterly necessary to it. After all that would be “racist” to anyone who isn’t a hardworking genius.

Any weak-minded scumbag sucking blood from an office could have discovered the wavelength of released electron spin. And anyone could have deciphered the useful implications. Right?

Well that should go along nicely with asshole, don’t you imagine. A trifecta of sorts. My statement was a belief that can not be empirically tested. It was a hunch, and will always be a hunch. I mean there is a lot of dogma that claims we are all so individual and our thoughts are ours and ours alone. No one else but Newton could have done it. Who is credited for inventing the light bulb? No one else would have thought of such things. We’d all be in the dark.

You do have some attitude about me don’t you?

Not “anyone”, but I certainly imagine “someone” else could. To be clear. Newton was no anyone, he was a someone. Thinking in terms of heros and Idols can do that. The same universe is available to us all to observe, there are some more observant than many others.

So, “leftism” is stupidity, coupled with weakness, coupled with cowardice, in extreme numbers.

Nope I don’t agree with that definition of leftism. I have stated previously that on the right we have those who would believe in every man for himself, a selfish slant on survival of the fittest, on the left we have those that believe we are going to have to share more equitably in the resources if we are to survive. I would imagine of the population on the planet, there exists a lot of people with a subscription towards one or the other survival strategies yet are too weak and cowardly to stand up for either. I’ve met a lot of people that aren’t that smart, but I still consider them human. Intelligence alone is not enough to establish another species between us. A smart duck and a dumb duck are still both ducks.

I might refine the thinking regarding the difference between those on the right and those on the left perhaps less politically. Right leaning thinking believes in individual responsibility, left leaning subscribe to humanity as responsibility. Right leaning believe they are individually responsible, left leaning think of communal responsibility. Right thinkers blame/credit others for their circumstances, left thinkers blame themselves just as much.

I don’t take credit for much. I can’t claim any credit for where I was born, to whom I was born to, and what combination of genes resulted in who I am. I can’t take credit for how smart I am or how dumb I can appear to be. Man there is a whole history of others doing what they have done for millennia that has brought me to where I am this day.

I had no role in the creation of that garden, the two individuals who lived there, or the snake, or any of that myth. Yet I am stuck with the historical consequences of others buying into it. The history of man thinking it a god and the consequences that followed.

Whether on the right or the left its a gene that neither the right nor the left can take credit for ending up with. What is done with life past that point of conception depends an awful lot on the circumstance of history.

I don’t blame you for inheriting the gene, nor will I hold you solely responsible with what you have done with it. How’s that for left leaning ideology.

I am not the droid you are looking to blame. (waves hand mysteriously) It is a grand illusion.

Just who’s mindful corruption ordered you to come looking for me anyway? I’d guess the myth to which you appear to subscribe is as fucked up as any individual’s can be, and I still don’t hold you individually responsible, and yet here you are, wrestling for the credit. Nope, it can be observed you’ve had an awful lot of “assistance”.

The post originally here, was not a well thought out contribution. The thought did not stem from the vacuum in space referred to as Mowk. I believe I allowed something perhaps shitty to seep in. Mea culpa. At least it wasn’t a thought uniquely mine. I didn’t pen it but I sure repeated it. Yeah so I can admit to a brain soaking but I swear no soap or solvent was added. I can not claim a lot of agitation hasn’t been added. Tell me you believe that is the same as a good washing. At best it could pass for a rinse.

I have been repeatedly accused of for being ideologically fixated , but for me it has worked, and as per the reduction of.phenomenology toward absurd notions , or wavering around them, the defensive simplicity works.
Sartre disallowed such caricaturish existential descriptions, but nevertheless he became his own ideological victim: by having to bracket at some point such slide into the pre-existing condition .
How the ‘Nausea’ could prevent a bad faith to creep into a literature of accesses, is perhaps a too wide a question to ask, however Echo the goddess was condemned never to ask the original question .
Narcissus had an edge, from that point on, but few understand the ramifications.
Whether the left and the right are ultimately fated to recognise that the level of absurd , differentiation becomes a treasonable punishment , where really, ultimately, there was none, has no current implicative value towards any model of correct social action.
The idea was, prior to the politics of alleged betrayal of Socrates, and the successive ideological shift toward Aristotle, became unanimous.

These minor character flaws echoed through the ages, with a tremendous effects stemming from Alcibiades’treachury.
What is considered right nowadays, is no longer considered as such for practical purposes, where ‘practical’ and ‘purposeful’ appear equitable .
But as it is, they are not. The effectivity connecting them springs from hope eternal, neither of which has much to do, either singularly , nor structurally with each other.
Myths become planted after a certain repetitious recycle occurs , after which axiomatic usage makes derivation unnecessary. They morph into necessary presumptions, and cutting them from verifiable ‘reality’, becomings minimally and invariably invasive. counter productive and even catastrophic.effects can result.
That was a proposition recognised , which Kant must have recognised, and
that is what is what probably happening in today’s ‘Trumpism’.
Damned if I will and damned if I will not.
It is purely a necessity , automatically , axiomatically and politically. It is where both are partially differentiated a-priori to pre-Socratic levels, (without the possibility of public regard.)originating all the bias.
So the proposed paradigmn is: the partial reductive absurd notion of negation as an abstracted fallacy , countering any notion of common sense.

Presumptions become necessary defenses against the onslaught against such works as ’ Anti-Duhring’ causing necessary reified content.

I’d like to respond to this. It’s the stuff in bold that made me recoil at what I’ve become. Parents, dad got irritated when I thought too much and asked too many questions. He interpreted my curiosity as a way to avoid doing my chores. While actually I was thinking about making them easier to perform. When we raked leaves in the fall he insisted we fill garbage cans with the leaves and haul them to the front yard and dump them, then return. I suggested using a large tarp, the leaves could be raked directly onto it, It held far more then a garbage can could, it was easier to dump, and the weight of the return trip was reduced dramatically. We finished the job in half the time that year. He never said good show. I didn’t get along with my father well. Mom was a charm, well read, thoughtful and she was aware the sort of thoughts that ran through my head. She always said I had great potential but never really clarified what that meant. She was disappointed with my grades in school, put me through a battery of childhood development and personality tests. Most of my teachers thought I was a clown in the classroom, a distraction. I didn’t thrive well in a parochial school system which my parents insisted on. First crack at college got me expelled. Returned a few years later and graduated top of my class. Majored in Art, minored in aesthetics, the only branch of philosophy I studied formally accept for a few general ed required courses. Four Professors stood out, two were amazing, the other two were amazing too but chided be insistently that I wouldn’t have the stamina to make it as an artist. I didn’t, One retired the other’s contract wasn’t renewed many years latter, teaching classical dance now at a small local school. As far as friends, never had a group of friends, don’t to this day. One of my friends molested my youngest sister, the best man at my wedding, developed a bad infatuation over the same sister and was latter diagnosed with metal illness. He never was the same after that and the friendship died by the wayside. Those who I considered friends didn’t turn out so friendly so I pretty much just keep everyone at arms length. In that way I am my own best friend and worst enemy. Everyone else on the planet fits somewhere in between.

I think temperament, has a lot to do with it. During a bad period of thinking after 9/11 I was diagnosed with ptsd. Repeated nightmares of a violent nature, couldn’t sleep or eat, poor job performance, nearly unable to function, my shrink tried to hypnotize me, said i wasn’t suggestible. Spent a lot of time on my introversion. Didn’t help much, was a slow recovery.

I guess the possibility of me being brainwashed by my own self imposed isolation is possible, don’t read much, perhaps cause I wanted to figure it out on my own. The answers others provided never made much sense.

But perhaps your questions were rhetorical. Shrug. I gotta come to terms with what I’ve become sooner or later. Miserable, an asshole, and retarded by some estimates. Being my own best friend I am aware of another side. Some people may see it, I really don’t know. I can be clever. I can earn a lot more value for myself working for myself then I ever could working for the man. Never demanded a raise in my life. Never took a hand out either. I shovel my own shit. Grow a lot of my own food. And I help others before I attend to my own shit if priorities require.

And you know what, I’m really starting to get irritated by the younger generation with the nads to call me brainwashed. But leaning left I can cut them some slack.