Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during our pr

Greatest_I_am · July 22, 2019, 3:54pm

phyllo:

Greatest I am:

phyllo:

[

It appears that neither animals(aside from humans) or plants engage in worship. So why do you say that “all life worships its own likeness”?

That’s the key point that I’m trying to get at.

The fact that all life worships its own likeness, is proven when you, as an example of life, tell us what your first love and if you aspired to emulate or mimic the one you loved.

I cannot prove anything. Only you can.

Regards
DL

That doesn’t prove anything because worship is not equivalent to love.

Aside from that, there is the small matter I shouldn’t be used as test of your claim because I’m a man and your claim is that men worship gods instead of their own natural likeness. If I say that I worship my likeness, then your claim would be contradicted.

A few exceptions makes no significant change to the policy stated as the traits you idol worship in any god are human characteristics.

Regards
DL

Greatest_I_am · July 22, 2019, 3:59pm

Mowk:

When my uncle in-law died he owned a farm. While there attending to his estate, I stumbled upon an abandoned kitten. My father in law who lived on that farm said kittens born that time of year (early November in Iowa) rarely lived through the winter, and without anyone left there to attend to the animals he believed the kittens chances for survival were slim to none. It was so young it’s eyes hadn’t even opened yet. We adopted the kitten, took it to a vet and found out it was less then a week old, with a serious infection. My wife told me if I wanted the kitten I would have to take care of it.

So we got the medicine and for over two weeks I fed that kitten from a bottle, 7 times a day 24 hours a day. We named him Bandit. The infection cleared, he put on weight and when his eyes opened for the first time I was what he saw with those beautiful kitten blue eyes. I didn’t know anything about raising a cat. For instance I didn’t know they had to be stimulated to release their waste, so in addition to feeding I cleaned and cared for that cute little critter. He grew up to be a fairly large cat and I can say from experience he certainly doesn’t worship the ground on which I walk. I dare say that I think it is he who thinks he trained me well.

Sure, personal experience is only anecdotal, but I am fairly certain that cat doesn’t worship me either; regardless that for eighteen years I am the one that has cared for it. It is quite fond of my wife, who spoils it rotten. So lest we draw too sweeping of generalizations… Every life seems rather unique, and worship doesn’t appear a requirement of life. Mankind seems the only animal that evidences a penchant for worship or being worshiped. Lets not forget royalty was thought to be ordained by the gods. I don’t see any other animals fashioning idols.

But the sentiment is cute and even endearing.

Simplistic thinking is poor thinking.

Regards
DL

phyllo · July 22, 2019, 4:13pm

So the statement “All swans are white” is not refuted or undermined when a black swan is discovered?

That’s good to know.

Greatest_I_am · July 22, 2019, 4:25pm

[quote=“phyllo”]
I do not agree with the words you put in my mouth.

Regards
DL

Karpel_Tunnel · July 23, 2019, 8:50am

If I smile at something, I am worshipping it? I have seen babies smile at dogs, cats, balls, snow…
[/quote]

mimicing something for endearment and protection is not worship.

If you think babies coorperate with everything you msut not have had a close relationship with a baby. They can be cranky, complain, not be satified and they make their complaints and upsettness quite clear. You keep using terms that are not the same as ‘worship’ to justify the idea that babies worship.

here you say that babies smile/cooperate with everything, which means that it is not merely their likeness they do this with.

[/quote]
Here you acknowledge that imprinting (not worship) will take place between species. So it is not the likeness that is important. Even if the creature is really quite fantasitically different from the baby, the baby will monitor and imitate (if it can) the behavior of the other. It will feel comfort in the presence of that creature, regardless of the fur, feathers, baldness, intelligence, language, power, number of hands, species, of the other.

Karpel_Tunnel · July 23, 2019, 8:55am

A few exceptions definitely eliminates the possibility that using the word ‘all’ is appropriate.

And then since worship and love are not the same thing, as he points out, it is not merely a few exceptions. It is a not appropriate use of language.

And since you are trying to draw conclusions about worshipping God and theism, the whole argument comes apart.

Karpel_Tunnel · July 23, 2019, 8:58am

You say All X are Y.
He demonstrates that this is not the case and you acknowledge that there are exceptions.
But you do not concede that your use of ‘all’ was incorrect.

His example with the black swan is exactly what you are doing.

It’s a small thing for you to concede that, alright, not all, but most.

And if it is so important to your argument that you must deny that your use of ‘all’ was incorrect, then the honorable thing is to concede and see what the truth is.

Otherwise this is just another preacher who cannot admit mistakes, and we’ve sure had a lot of that in the history of Abrahamism.

Mowk · July 23, 2019, 1:12pm

simplistic thinking is poor thinking.

Greatest_I_am · July 23, 2019, 1:48pm

mimicing something for endearment and protection is not worship.

If you think babies coorperate with everything you msut not have had a close relationship with a baby. They can be cranky, complain, not be satified and they make their complaints and upsettness quite clear. You keep using terms that are not the same as ‘worship’ to justify the idea that babies worship.

here you say that babies smile/cooperate with everything, which means that it is not merely their likeness they do this with.

[/quote]
Here you acknowledge that imprinting (not worship) will take place between species. So it is not the likeness that is important. Even if the creature is really quite fantasitically different from the baby, the baby will monitor and imitate (if it can) the behavior of the other. It will feel comfort in the presence of that creature, regardless of the fur, feathers, baldness, intelligence, language, power, number of hands, species, of the other.
[/quote]
Your language is too narrow and if you cannot open it up we may as well forget this talk.

I am not interested in debating the definition of words.

Try to think the way this poem does, in a broad spectrum. If you cannot, I don’t know where you wish to go from here.

youtube.com/watch?v=SkZg1ZflpJs

He uses the work “king” as a general term for ideal and that should screw you right up, unless you get into a more general mindset.

Regards
DL

Greatest_I_am · July 23, 2019, 1:49pm

Nice complicated argument. You win this one.

Regards
DL

Greatest_I_am · July 23, 2019, 1:51pm

If all you are going to do is expect a legal discourse where all agree on the meaning of words, go find it elsewhere.

I am not here to discuss the meanings of well defined words.

Regards
DL

Mowk · July 23, 2019, 4:15pm

Seems like you don’t care to define anything accurately.

Regards

Greatest_I_am · July 23, 2019, 4:35pm

I specified god.

Thanks for showing your inaccurate character and wish to win some point enough to distort and lie about what is at issue.

What a puny ugly mind. I hope you are young enough to outgrow such vile traits.

Regards
DL

Mowk · July 23, 2019, 8:49pm

So you like ugly huh?

Grown up to see you are staying on topic huh?

Listen I agree, present extinction period, not a good thing. That you want to solve it with a naturalistic view of god?

You haven’t even presented your argument clearly.

One minute you are talking about how to view god and the next you’re babbling on about who knows what. I too hope you grow out of it.

Oops forgot the “regards”

Mowk · July 23, 2019, 8:50pm

Bully doesn’t get his way and doesn’t argue his case, he uses attempts at insults instead.

Atheists don’t worship.

Oops forgot the “regards”

Mowk · July 23, 2019, 10:46pm

Also a good question, even if rather convoluted.

What type of a god?.. “an imaginary one”. Why is there any need to define that sentiment further?

So no, I don’t think an “imaginary” naturalistic view of a god is going to be beneficial in any way that is good for the earth or the rate species are going extinct.

regards, back-atcha.

Mowk · July 24, 2019, 12:27am

phyllo wrote:

How do you know what fish, cats or shrubs worship? Or if they worship anything?

Mowk · July 24, 2019, 12:37am

And by the by. Loose the signature. You don’t mean it with any degree of conviction. You insult someone and end it with regards. Sounds to me like you hold nothing but contempt for those who don’t agree with you.

Mowk · July 24, 2019, 1:23am

What would be of assistance?

Ierrellus · July 24, 2019, 12:55pm

What would “a naturalistic view of god” entail? What would it be like?