Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

FreeSpirit1983 · July 14, 2019, 4:13pm

Greatest I am:

bahman:

Greatest I am:

Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don’t see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.

Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

Regards
DL

Here are a few associated with Christianity.

magiscenter.com/contemporar … charist-2/

Greatest_I_am · July 14, 2019, 4:41pm

Belief is a mental state that suggests that there is something out there. It acts intelligently so we can conclude that an intelligent person responsible for it if we accept the argument, which is, I) There is an intelligent act (an intelligent act being an act which is directed to somewhere), II) Intelligent act is caused by an intelligent person, III) Therefore there is an intelligent person. I, however, don’t see any difference between natural and supernatural except that the first is common whereas the second is rare. They are both caused.
[/quote]
Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

Regards
DL
[/quote]
Here are a few associated with Christianity.

magiscenter.com/contemporar … charist-2/
[/quote]
I figured. Nothing concrete.

Regards
DL

promethean75 · July 14, 2019, 5:12pm

@ freespirit; see hume’s argument against miracles and russell’s ‘natural law’ argument. i’d get the links for you but my iced mocha just blew up and i’ve got whipped cream all over my fingers. i shouldn’t even be posting this much. you owe me.

FreeSpirit1983 · July 14, 2019, 6:26pm

Hume and Russell were both atheists that refused to allow the possibility for scientifically verified miracles.

Pardon me while I reject their atheism.

FreeSpirit1983 · July 14, 2019, 6:27pm

Rare?

I hope you do not mean the 7th hand hearsay in holy books.

Tell us what you have seen please or know of miracle as facts please.

Regards
DL
[/quote]
Here are a few associated with Christianity.

magiscenter.com/contemporar … charist-2/
[/quote]
I figured. Nothing concrete.

Regards
DL
[/quote]
You didn’t read it.

You atheists always reject anything that exposes your materialist world view.

Greatest_I_am · July 14, 2019, 6:40pm

Here are a few associated with Christianity.

magiscenter.com/contemporar … charist-2/
[/quote]
I figured. Nothing concrete.

Regards
DL
[/quote]
You didn’t read it.

You atheists always reject anything that exposes your materialist world view.
[/quote]
I might have missed something but as I said, I saw nothing concrete.

If you had anything in particular, I am sure your would have highlighted it.

I agree that atheists reject your fantasies for what they are.

Thanks for trying to label me such out of your frustration in having me thing as delusionally as you do.

Regards
DL

FreeSpirit1983 · July 14, 2019, 7:58pm

DL,

You didn’t read it. You are willfully ignorant.

It’s OK. Many atheists are.

Regards,
Brian

bahman · July 14, 2019, 8:52pm

Yes.

No. It is based on my spiritual experience.

They can read my mind and put thoughts inside my mind in a way that I feel that it is my thoughts. They are very powerful and there is a hierarchy within them.

Silhouette · July 14, 2019, 9:28pm

An inelegant stereotype. I am an atheist and not a materialist. There is nothing about atheism that dictates worldview beyond literally “without God”. Anything else is on the table.

In terms of established worldviews, mine probably most closely fits Panpsychism, but I have ironed out the issues in this and all other worldviews in my own Experientialism.

There is zero need for religious narrative in either of these, and inserting a token Deistic “God” into the vocabulary serves no use.

Dawkins, maybe. Hitchens simply brought up scripture and presented it for what it is without mercy. Harris has a mastery of philosophy that is on par with the best of them, and far beyond mere experts. He even differs with the 4th horseman of the counter-apocalypse, Dennett, with his monist Materialism that I too rejected back in university. None of them think they’re experts in every field just because they are in their own field.

promethean75 · July 14, 2019, 10:43pm

nuh-uh, not me. i love it. 'cause we are living in a material world, and i am uh material girl

Greatest_I_am · July 15, 2019, 7:39pm

You did not read where I said I was not an atheist, ass hole, but thanks for not showing your best proof.

Regards
DL

Greatest_I_am · July 15, 2019, 7:44pm

Rather like a cosmic consciousness.
It happens that I believe in that, to a point only, because I don’t know if I could differentiate it from what Jung and Freud called our Father Complex.

I have no way of knowing if that is what I telepathically found or a cosmic consciousness.
Sight does not work in our minds and I could not tell if I was outside of my body or within it.

Why are you choosing the supernatural view instead of the natural view?

Regards
DL

bahman · July 15, 2019, 8:18pm

I only believe in natural. There are natural phenomena that are rare. People call this supernatural. Otherwise, natural.

Greatest_I_am · July 15, 2019, 9:11pm

Goody good.

I agree.

Regards
DL

surreptitious75 · July 16, 2019, 3:28pm

I dont reject it but am merely sceptical about something for which there is no evidence
I would still be an atheist even if materialism was shown not to be the totality of reality

Arcturus_Descending · July 19, 2019, 4:41pm

Greatest I am

Why would you call it a “game”? Describe what you mean by game.
By “intelligent person”, do you mean the puppeteers who try to own our souls and our wills and take our money, like some preachers and psychics?

So, when you speak in terms of “supernatural” does that also include the entity which supposedly is responsible for the creation of the world or just fairies and angels and demons, et cetera?

I can certainly agree with this.

How far back are you going? The dinosaurs?

Gods and Goddesses

The ancient Greeks believed there were a great number of gods and goddesses. These gods had control over many different aspects of life on earth. In many ways they were very human. They could be kind or mean, angry or pleasant, cruel or loving. They fell in love with each other, argued with each other and even stole from each other.
…

ancientgreece.co.uk/gods/home_set.html

lol So, they were actually really good at doubting their beliefs then? That must have caused them a great deal of chagrin, no? But it is a great starting point for finding truth.

I agree. This is the way in which we humans explain away the world, turn away from finding “real” solutions to problems and refuse to see the real shadows and demons (non-supernatural) within ourselves. Anyway, I kind of think that superstitions are deep within our DNA, handed down from a forever ago.

For instance, science, fiction, poetry? What are you speaking about here?

I would say that it could be a worthy idea for us to ponder. We cannot actually prove one way or the other if there is Something Divine who or which permeates the universe. For some individuals, belief in a God can enrich one’s life and help them to live a more moral and ethical one. For others, their belief and faith can allow them to feel less alone in the world and as part of a greater Whole. We are not all Nature Lovers. So, why would we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and cause someone spiritual/emotional harm, as long as their belief can be a rational one based on what they can see of the world. It is possible though it is unprovable.

I think that we all need one another in a sense. For those with a great imagination and longing for a God, their belief in God may be enough but I am not so sure that it is or ought to be. But as I said, we all need another human, another’s voice, hands, embrace, et cetera. We cannot hold a God in our arms or actually here this entity’s voice as some believe they can. It is just a poor substitue for a human being or even for nature. Hugging a tree can give greater satisfaction. lol

I would be very careful about the human leader or spiritual guide which I chose.

How can a God, fictitious or real, be less moral than humans? We really do enjoy making this God into our own image and likeness or perhaps even better still, into the image and likeness of others. That is, for me, like calling a tree evil because it fell on you. That is a figment of one’s imagination, simply a projection of one’s own psyche.

Show me your God and I will show you who you are.

Regards
DL
[/quote]

Greatest_I_am · July 22, 2019, 3:07pm

Arcturus Descending:

Greatest I am

Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Why would you call it a “game”? Describe what you mean by game.
By “intelligent person”, do you mean the puppeteers who try to own our souls and our wills and take our money, like some preachers and psychics?

So, when you speak in terms of “supernatural” does that also include the entity which supposedly is responsible for the creation of the world or just fairies and angels and demons, et cetera?

Nothing that I know of, other than personal renderings or hear say, has ever been produced or provide to show the existence of a supernatural realm or entities.

I can certainly agree with this.

The ancients did not seem to think the supernatural was a reality.

How far back are you going? The dinosaurs?

Gods and Goddesses

The ancient Greeks believed there were a great number of gods and goddesses. These gods had control over many different aspects of life on earth. In many ways they were very human. They could be kind or mean, angry or pleasant, cruel or loving. They fell in love with each other, argued with each other and even stole from each other.
…

ancientgreece.co.uk/gods/home_set.html

lol So, they were actually really good at doubting their beliefs then? That must have caused them a great deal of chagrin, no? But it is a great starting point for finding truth.

No entity, good or evil, have ever manifested itself in a provable way, even though some think god is Omni-present and that Satan was given the ability and power to deceive us all.

I agree. This is the way in which we humans explain away the world, turn away from finding “real” solutions to problems and refuse to see the real shadows and demons (non-supernatural) within ourselves. Anyway, I kind of think that superstitions are deep within our DNA, handed down from a forever ago.

I think that those who believe in supernatural entities are being taken advantage of by fraudulent preachers who recognize our propensity of over imagination, which we all have, as shown in the Princess Alice experiments. youtube.com/watch?v=aWx_uVDh4Cw

I can see some benefits in imaginary thinking to validate or refute ideas but that is about it.

For instance, science, fiction, poetry? What are you speaking about here?

Is belief or faith in the supernatural a worthy idea for us or is it a tool used by lying preachers intent on fleecing sheeple?

I would say that it could be a worthy idea for us to ponder. We cannot actually prove one way or the other if there is Something Divine who or which permeates the universe. For some individuals, belief in a God can enrich one’s life and help them to live a more moral and ethical one. For others, their belief and faith can allow them to feel less alone in the world and as part of a greater Whole. We are not all Nature Lovers. So, why would we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and cause someone spiritual/emotional harm, as long as their belief can be a rational one based on what they can see of the world. It is possible though it is unprovable.

If there is no supernatural god, should we not seek a human leader or spiritual guide instead of idolizing imaginary supernatural gods that are demonstrably less moral than humans?

I think that we all need one another in a sense. For those with a great imagination and longing for a God, their belief in God may be enough but I am not so sure that it is or ought to be. But as I said, we all need another human, another’s voice, hands, embrace, et cetera. We cannot hold a God in our arms or actually here this entity’s voice as some believe they can. It is just a poor substitue for a human being or even for nature. Hugging a tree can give greater satisfaction. lol

I would be very careful about the human leader or spiritual guide which I chose.

How can a God, fictitious or real, be less moral than humans? We really do enjoy making this God into our own image and likeness or perhaps even better still, into the image and likeness of others. That is, for me, like calling a tree evil because it fell on you. That is a figment of one’s imagination, simply a projection of one’s own psyche.

Show me your God and I will show you who you are.

Regards
DL

[/quote]
We may not have an argument.

This link is as far back as I am looking.

bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

As to your last. You are bang on.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god “I am”, and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name “I Am” you might see as meaning something like, — I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.
youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes … r_embedded

Regards
DL

FreeSpirit1983 · August 2, 2019, 1:59pm

Greatest I am:

FreeSpirit1983:

Greatest I am:

Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

Nothing that I know of, other than personal renderings or hear say, has ever been produced or provide to show the existence of a supernatural realm or entities. The ancients did not seem to think the supernatural was a reality. bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

No entity, good or evil, have ever manifested itself in a provable way, even though some think god is Omni-present and that Satan was given the ability and power to deceive us all.

I think that those who believe in supernatural entities are being taken advantage of by fraudulent preachers who recognize our propensity of over imagination, which we all have, as shown in the Princess Alice experiments. youtube.com/watch?v=aWx_uVDh4Cw

I can see some benefits in imaginary thinking to validate or refute ideas but that is about it.

Is belief or faith in the supernatural a worthy idea for us or is it a tool used by lying preachers intent on fleecing sheeple?

If there is no supernatural god, should we not seek a human leader or spiritual guide instead of idolizing imaginary supernatural gods that are demonstrably less moral than humans?

Regards
DL

Yes, although not all believers are intelligent, of course.

Religious people live better lives than atheists do. That’s proven by the social sciences.

Being religious means a better life in this world (happier, live longer, less depression, less suicide, more giving) and hopefully a much better life in the next.

Better is a subjective thing.

Sure the religious live a bit longer and happier lives, but to a thinker, as compared to a sheeple, cannot see being a sheeple as better than a thinker.

The small difference is not enough to make an atheist put his mind in intellectual and especially moral dissonance.

We value our minds and truth more than theists. By we I mean thinkers, not atheists. Not being an atheist, I cannot speak for them.

At present, atheists are beginning the trend of providing what were known as mystery schools. Some are calling them atheist churches. That trend will give them the longer and happier lives without them having to insult their intellect and morals.

They know how utterly stupid and brain killing idol worship of a genocidal son murdering god can be. They have seen what it does to Christians and Muslims.

They are not interested in growing atheism with inquisitions and jihads.
That is why countries with less religiosity are more peaceful and law abiding.

Regards
DL

Lol no.

As Americans abandon God, despair rises. Suicide rates up 33% since 1999.

More Americans die in a year from drug overdoses than died in the entire Vietnam war.

This is what happens when atheism spreads like the cancer it is.

Arcturus_Descending · August 2, 2019, 2:52pm

FS

I think that that would depend on the individual and circumstances/situations.

Some abandon God or let go of God because they have reached a certain maturity and autonomy. They have outgrown their need for the patriarchal figure.

If someone has other meaningful things going for them in his-her life and a strong raison de etre that does not have to happen.

Are you sure that those who died from a drug overdose actually abandoned God or rather felt that God had abandoned them along with those who were to love and support them?

You have no way of actually knowing if those rates are up because this one or that one abandoned God. I would suggest that you see it that way because your main focus in life is atheism.

No matter how much someone loves or values God in his-her life, sometimes horrible painful things happen that can break a person and cause him to lose his will to live. No amount of comfort and faith can change that. Perhaps a God is not needed at this time but one or two of his creatures.

Artimas · August 2, 2019, 3:08pm

What seems supernatural is only that which has yet to be understood… When the questions become answers based upon perception, is it still viewed as supernatural?

A delving into the depths of the unknown should always be an intelligent person’s goal.

Magic, is just unexplained science. It keeps us going.