Pascal's Wager is brilliant!

You’re ignorant on this topic.

When you’re dead, you’ll understand…hopefully you’ll repent.

I don’t repent, I atone.

The idea that you can stand in judgement of me is laughable.

Your judgement day will look like this:

The judge: “freespirit is too stupid to judge, just let freespirit into heaven”

And then you’ll hear people laughing at you.

You better hope you’re right!

I don’t have to hope.

Jesus is “oops, sorry”

Forever and ever and ever.

Atonement has substance.

I probably would too but a photograph would just as easily suffice and most crimes dont have 500 witnesses
Its far more likely that there are either no witnesses or very few and then it becomes a lot harder to decide

On whose authority?

This is circular.

How do you know? Because the Bible said so
How do you know the Bible is true? Because God said so
How does you know God exists? Because the Bible said so

Looks like my last response got lost in the catfight, never mind.

We don’t know God exists for certain. We do know that the Gospels are very reliable historically. So in a sense you have to make a choice. Do you believe in the Gospels or not?

This is where Pascal comes in. He teaches us to look at the outcomes of our choice.

Since we’re all going to die in a couple decades and be gone forever, the rational choice is to believe because of the outcomes.

It’s much better to believe in the Gospels and be wrong than to reject the Gospels and be wrong.

Ok, so a reiteration of the initial argument.

Just doesn’t seem worth it due mostly to the sheer improbability of being dragging into the choice in the first place.

There’s negligible reason to believe in the Gospel tales. The traditional wisdom is fine, the rolling themes are good metaphors, the specifics are entertaining.

But as Pascal says, we are on the ship of life. We are embarked. We have to choose. Indifference is the same as atheism.

Regardless, I think we can agree on time. 100 years is much closer to 0 than it is to infinity.

Freespirit,

I’m not going to attack your arguments directly, as that’s just boring and you already lost.

So let’s have fun!

How about this: what if Jesus was the devil?

Interesting question eh?

So if god is death and Jesus is the devil, what do we have?

We only have logic. Those are the only clothes we have to dress ourselves with in this crazy existence.

Logic? You don’t have any evidence to claim that Jesus was the devil.

If He was the devil, we’d both be screwed.

See? That’s what separates you from a philosopher.

Come back when you’ve learned more.

lol.

But there is no evidence that Jesus is the devil. There’s plenty of evidence that He was divine.

What if the Gospels are true, and Jesus is the son of God?

You would probably have eternal misery because you knowingly rejected Him over and over again.

Go read Pascal then come back.

Freespirit, you are young in a perjoritive sense.

You are delusional in the defined sense…

Let’s look at the actual facts then:

This world is shit on a stick.

You claim the messiah came here over 2000 years ago.

That’s a logical contradiction.

That’s because the world didn’t obey His teachings.

Freespirit wrote: That’s because they didn’t obey his teachings.

Ecmandu replies: that’s not a true messiah then

According to you :slight_smile:

Who are some of your favorite philosophers? I used to like Nietzsche and Schopenhauer before I converted.

Socrates, because he taught Plato, plato taught Aristotle: that entire tradition is my favorite, all the way through to Plotinus…

Little did they know back then, they discovered the way to describe a secular existence that needed no god to explain anything.

True messiahs are not karma dictators (you must embody what I embody)