New Discovery

And so is free will the basis of our civilization. So what? It doesn’t mean it’s correct. That’s why it’s called scientific theory.

The renewal of cells are happening in the present. You are the one that is tangled up in time. The past and future can’t be non temporary because they don’t exist. Again, this doesn’t mean we are not connected to what happened to us in the past or to what may happen in the future; just that these are thoughts in our head that are occurring in the present. The present moment is never over because that’s where we reside. Without our memory centers the future and past would not exist for us. You’ve got it backwards. :-k

I’m not disputing that the mind can take us to faraway places or places that we’ve already experienced or have yet to experience. I’m not even referring to the way the mind perceives time in a conscious or subconscious state. Please don’t conflate what I’m talking about with what you’re talking about, as if they’re synonymous.

That’s what we’ve been taught.

I’m not casually denying anything. If he’s wrong, so be it, but I would hope that scientists would take the time to see why he made this claim. There are cases where science gets it wrong. When you say demonstrably true, how so? He didn’t say light doesn’t travel at a high rate of speed. Anyway, I really don’t want to get into this. It won’t get us anywhere especially when his most important discovery has yet to be explained.

I actually don’t have it backward. The thing that is temporary here is the present moment. And if the past isn’t existent then there is no present. We can observe a skeleton. We can observe a body becoming a corpse. The present moment is gone with each millisecond, yet you argue that it is what exists and no past or future does, that’s laughable considering both of those are inevitable and set in stone in a sense. The present is the only thing not set in stone until it becomes the past or future.

Also. So you think every solution that is chosen is for ones own satisfaction?

So if I had to solve an issue not for myself but say, at work and this solution is out of my own satisfaction, I will be dissatisfied from the solution, yet continue to do it, thinking of the others whom issues will be resolved. This is a move toward my own greater satisfaction?

What if the more satisfying thing would be to leave that job but you don’t and continue to be dissatisfied? People do this, every day and for you to agree with the author is to shit all over reality and people’s struggling with such, proper decision making, responsibility, self awareness, etc.

What if you don’t view dissatisfaction as something negative or dissatisfying? What if you don’t view anything as good or bad?

When you watch a body becoming a corpse, you’re watching this occurring in the present although your brain registers the change as if you’re actually seeing the past.

Yes, but please don’t make the mistake of making satisfaction analogous with pleasure. Sometimes we sacrifice pleasure to gain something more satisfying in the short or long term.

Yes it is because you are getting greater satisfaction in solving the problem for this other person than your own. Therefore you are still moving in the direction of the “greater” satisfaction.

Responsibility is discussed in Chapter Two, and he shows why it goes up, not down, with this knowledge. Proper decision making and self-awareness are words that won’t have much meaning in the new world because everyone will be making proper decisions for them. Self-awareness is great for people who want to understand what makes them tick. This is not a prerequisite to changing the environment in such a way that all hurt is removed. Finally, the author was very clear that we’re not always satisfied but we choose what we consider to be the least dissatisfying if all of our options are undesirable.

[i]Let me summarize by taking careful note of this simple
reasoning that proves conclusively (except for the implications already
referred to) that will is not free. Man has two possibilities that are
reduced to the common denominator of one. Either he does not have
a choice because none is involved, as with aging, and then it is obvious
that he is under the compulsion of living regardless of what his
particular motion at any moment might be, or he has a choice and
then is given two or more alternatives of which he is compelled by his
nature to prefer the one that appears to offer the greatest satisfaction
whether it is the lesser of two evils, the greater of two goods, or a good
over an evil. Therefore, it is absolutely impossible for will to be free
because man never has a free choice, though it must be remembered
that the words good and evil are judgments of what others think is
right and wrong, not symbols of reality.

The truth of the matter is
that the words good and evil can only have reference to what is a
benefit or a hurt to oneself. Killing someone may be good in
comparison to the evil of having that person kill me. The reason
someone commits suicide is not because he is compelled to do this
against his will, but only because the alternative of continuing to live
under certain conditions is considered worse. He was not happy to
take his own life but under the conditions he was compelled to prefer,
by his very nature, the lesser of two evils which gave him greater
satisfaction. [u]Consequently, when he does not desire to take his own
life because he considers this the worse alternative as a solution to his
problems, he is still faced with making a decision, whatever it is, which
means that he is compelled to choose an alternative that is more
satisfying.

For example, in the morning when the alarm clock goes
off he has three possibilities; commit suicide so he never has to get up,
go back to sleep, or get up and face the day. Since suicide is out of
the question under these conditions, he is left with two alternatives.
Even though he doesn’t like his job and hates the thought of going to
work, he needs money, and since he can’t stand having creditors on
his back or being threatened with lawsuits, it is the lesser of two evils
to get up and go to work. He is not happy or satisfied to do this when
he doesn’t like his job, but he finds greater satisfaction doing one
thing than another.[/u] Dog food is good to a starving man when the
other alternatives are horse manure or death, just as the prices on a
menu may cause him to prefer eating something he likes less because
the other alternative of paying too high a price for what he likes more
is still considered worse under his particular circumstances.[/i]

We don’t always view things as good or bad, but we are constantly comparing options when making decisions. We often choose between the greater of two or more goods but we are sometimes forced to choose between the lesser of two evils when no choice is satisfying. People often do things that are dissatisfying in the short term for something better in the long term. This doesn’t negate the fact that we must choose what is the better alternative in our eyes [not someone else’s] when we’re comparing meaningful differences.

For special eyes only: I start with a conclusion and work myself back: to the source: that is, reductive not productive-on a very tangible basis.

The last conclusion, short term(for one’s self) toward long term ( for other’s benefit) struck my eye.
Reductionism entails a trigonometric-geometric understanding in terms of form -bubble theory) ((and ed would or could be instrumental in noting the differentially induced reduction here underlying it)).

This moving forward through looking back , corresponds to the anterior primacy of perception before ontology.

The rate of the velocity of light contrarily is presupposed by the mechanics of the eye, whereas, the look should be more of a focus, as a transcendental starting point.

It could offer foundation either way, but an ontoligically based Preception is much more unfocused, setting the stage for more and more re-presentation, and illusion.

Finally, de elusive progression may develop in a hyperspace. If, perceptions are not focused toward objective reality.

By objective reality I mean one that transcends perception to it"s source, by.gradual transition to it’s autonomous( automatic) system of retaining the model, the object, which regulates the flow of the “elan”

This regression, takes up the spaces, into the very limits, of the border between the conscious shirt term predictor of the self, and the longer term signifier of / to social , objectively beneficial partial reconstruction in the future present time.

(Partial de-differentiation of ed and through visual fields broken down into more bubbles in a determined hyperfield of spatial temporal designation, requires it.

Particular notice here, is the point where intervening variability of hyperspace is perceived as reducible to absurdity, but here Einstein’s proof of the linear arc to an hyperpositioned
Giant Sphere approaching ideal trig-geometric perceptions toward linear binomial understanding.

The look becomes prejoritive here, and at the regions toeard absolute tangent, the contrary or the contradiction becomes as similar through usage and nominal utility through common sense.

The reduction to absurdity, is a required epoch in this transformation.

Hyperpositioned, Giant sphere approaching ideal trig-geometric perceptions, linear binominal understanding, de elusive progression, hyperspace, visual fields being broken down into more bubbles in a determined hyperfield of spatial temporal designation? These are all concepts I’m not familiar with. Maybe someone else can chime in to explain how this disproves the author’s claims. :open_mouth:

Why is there a need to chime in, when the reading of it does not try to disprove anything, but I think the partial disintegration bothers You.

A partial de-differentiation for reconstruction is not tantamount to an absolute hypothetical acceptance.
For such faux-unity implies an a priori definition of present time, which has not been the case throughout the historical development of transcendental progression, which .mist be at least partially admitted in this argument.

I think both You and I are missing this
relational(relevance). The author may, and I presume by now, can be that interloper, and is not a matter of some kind of. psychic bridge ( which may very well turn out to be the interloper), but the effects of elements of testament in this forum can induce by now.

The above is the foundation for the contra-indication , which we touched upon earlier, with others chiming in. My referring to them, is at least part determinative of past memory within the bracketed present, to at least try to account for an unaccountable , forgotten memory of an absolute past.

It doesn’t bother me at all. I just don’t see where there is a need for partial disintegration to prove the author’s claims.

I don’t know whether you would consider this an a priori definition of present time, but according to my thinking it is not a priori. There is proof, through observation, that we live in the present tense.

You’re still not being specific enough. What relational relevance am I missing? How may the author be the interloper? Interloper of what?

This is a paradigm example of arguing from both ends-reductively (inductively) and deductively, and that gets problematic as far as verbal interaction between similar content as far as the terms can generally be identified as making some sense.

Implication has various latitudes of comprehensive meaning, and I am trying to wrap my mind around the specificity You are requirying around time.

I am partly in complete agreement with the assertion that everything happens in the present time, but again I try to argue that notion has not developed legitimacy on basis of some intuition, OR games surrounding the analysis of sensible knowledge.

To accept that on it’s face appears sensible enough, but without the the objectiveness, the materiality of the source of such transaction (between the two modes of it); a prior determinative must entail the assumption that the author makes.

In fact such assumptions are only accepted a-priori, once the determination is understood to comply (not imply) a credible source.

That intuitive understanding has an analogy, is not a matter for doubt, as Einstein’s special Relativity is in relation to Lorentz’ theory on ether.

I feel no qualms to bring that up ,Peace Girl, and I do apologise for bringing in what may appear to You as unrelated.

What do you mean “by a credible source”? Do you mean a source that is trusted because of a person’s renown?

If you are certain that time is an actual dimension based on a credible source (who can argue with Einstein :confused: ), and that time can curve and dilate, then you should stick with what you believe. You would not like Lessans’ discovery on death because one of the premises that led to his understanding that we are born again and again was based on his observation that we live in the present.

Again Peacegirl, there may not be a viable argument here.
Lorentz-Einstein preceded by Michaelson and Morely show a pretty fair inductive chain, and Your response asks the hidden objective reference, as if temporaluty can assail or forward any congruence or dis - similarity between the absolute certainty between death and the lesser certain applications of the will hiding behind causes erased from memory.
If the birth-death parameters are bracketed , existentially, then the intervening variable substancive being , may appear as nothing but reliance on a hypothetical totality.

It doesmtatter at all, whether that totality is defined as the sum total of known historical compoaite of all known sets of near absolute quanta, set in an absolute approachable limit , or, presupposed as the one ideal form of being, because even one scintilla of difference produces two identical copies.

I asked St. James about it , and he rightly asserted at least one individual copy of every identifiable humam being.

Quantification through population growth does not matter since up to one single increment , there is a cosmological equivalency.
I do not hold St James above or under the very same field, because 1 increment below simultainity reduced multiple worlds as indistinguishable .

Now if this were not true, then the idea of existence would become impossible , per esse est percipii.

This sounds impossible , nut does not an infinite cosmos sound equally so?

Same goes between various quantum differentiating between 2 or millions of families of resemblances , the difference is within a single unit of recognance~per recognition.

The breaching of levels do not even abide by karmic cause and effect, nor by chance , where this difference is again too close to call.

That without this conflation between similar recognized identities result in existential jumps , does appear illusively on basis of again a transpersonal , transcendent time, encompassing ages of past and future, to create that minimum absolute (eigen vector- eigen value), that determines the preceptive apparatus based on the dynamics of measurement. Here I am using intuitive based matrix reversal , not through derivation , but through the use of absolute imminent qualifiers)

Birth and death parameters are bracketed, that is true, but what intervening variable substantive being are you referring to that would be reliant on a hypothetical totality?

Please explain where any of this negates the author’s proof that we’re born again and again. If you think you’ve disproved the premises that are the fundamentals of his reasoning, then you will disregard his proof, but I’m not sure where your logic actually succeeds.

Actually I am pointing (in the post modern sense of the word) to the anomaly between non differentiable senses between mine and the author’s view in the absolute absolute .

I was hoping that that has been established, since that has been read and affirmed by You

That we are eternally reborn is implicit regardless of quantitative aspects of resemblance (per Wittgenstein) and identity as identifiable groupings are not differentiable as well from the qualifying aspect of the quantitative base.

This is a problem , as You have pointed out for materialism, for seeming different reasons.

The whole idea of differential’s this makes the whole problem of integration a secondary consideration, that is why I proposed de-differentiation aposteriori to
an a priori integration of partial derivatives.(Hessian inversion to Jacobian matrix)

I am asking for poetic licence here for philosophic base for the logical foundation of mathematics , knowing that is partly presumptuous, however the partially differentiated.(cut off notion )may support such a proposition.
If a standard language were to be used , then fallaciousness may be argued, however it may become categorically imperative that such be partiality adopted.

I know you mean well but you’re giving different philosophers ideas that have nothing to do with his reasoning. How can you respond intelligently when you haven’t read this chapter? You’re just guessing.

Not exactly, I am relying on authors just like you are

Meno, how can you rely on other authors when you haven’t read the author that this discussion revolves around? He has his own reasons as to why he claims we’re born again and again, which has nothing to do with who we are now. In fact, there’s no relationship. I’m sure others have their their own theories, but I believe this author’s reasoning is accurate. The point I’m making is that it’s impossible to understand his reasoning without knowing what his reasoning is. All the other theories you’re bringing into this discussion have nothing to do with what he’s bringing to the table. You may think he’s wrong after reading the chapter, but at least you read the chapter. As I said, you will probably disagree with him because one of his first premises is that we live in the present. Therefore, you may feel it’s not worth reading because of the many theories that say time is relative. I really don’t want to go further with the discussion on death (whether you read it or not) because that’s not what I came here to discuss.

Perhaps this forum is not about who is right or wrong, and even though I have not red the author’s invention, it appears more of a test mentioned in passing ; -in the present, - of long term contribution to others trumping short term self indulgence ; which has more to do with free will, then any other choice that could determine the truth.

You’re right, this forum is not about right or wrong, but if this author is right, the implications are huge. The idea that we can sacrifice immediate self indulgence for future gain does not grant us free will. I spoke about this but I guess you weren’t here. The author did not invent anything. He made astute observations after a lifetime of voracious reading of literature and philosophy. This finding lies behind the door of determinism. He said that if he didn’t make this discovery, someone else would because this knowledge is part of the real world. But why should we wait another thousand years when we have the knowledge now that can bring peace on earth? But this can only happen if people stop jumping to premature conclusions that he’s wrong without even giving him a chance. If you’re interested in the book, you can get it on Amazon as an ebook. I’m working to get the print version out but I don’t believe it’s available yet. I’ll check tomorrow to see where it is in the queue. The book is called, Decline and Fall of All Evil by Seymour Lessans. If you want to read the first three chapters before deciding whether you want to buy the book, here is the link again.

[i]http://www.declineandfallofallevil.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Decline-and-Fall-of-All-Evil-2-13-2019-THREE-CHAPTERS.pdf?fbclid=IwAR32MIoParNeRq11g2GV-mwIBACPwu27zWesMUjLMnrT70F6ROSEX53QxMk

[/i]

Yeah but this is the kind of thing you gotta present to the whole world all of a sudden and at once, for it to have any impact. All educational systems the world over would have to integrate this into their curriculum to prevent the next generation from becoming the liars, or imbeciles, or both, that the former generation was. And with this revolution would come drastic changes in the superstructures of government… namely at an economic, sociological level. The first thing you’d notice would be a magnificent rejection of the thesis by those who profit from the criminal justice system and the prison industries. Next you’d be forced to contend with conservatives who reject the interference of government in social engineering. The upper classes won’t like the idea of their taxes being used to raise the quality of life and education for what would otherwise be the criminal class… which would then be followed by the capitalists’ protest against the same. Blue collar crime would decrease in proportion to the improvement of the quality of life for the proletariat/lumpen-proletariat… and this, obviously, would follow the intervention of government into the private sector. Lower and middle classes would be more wealthy, and therefore less prone to commit crime.

Yeah the whole thing would shake the present paradigm at it’s very core. We’re talkin’ maaaajor change, homegirl.

Oh and religious, evangelical rackets would be out of business, too. The very bloodline of their deceptive enterprise is the thesis of freewill. They’d be totally shut down.