Incel Culture

Huh? This has zero percent to do with the topic that women only accept rape relationships, nor anything to do with the actual reason why I am incel.

Your analysis is fundamentally flawed and here is why :

You are assuming that the female subconcious mind is the same for all women - that is that all of them think exactly the same
Not only is this not true for sex but it is also equally not true for everything else women think about as they are all individuals

As this is the foundation upon which your entire argument rests it is invalid so you need to find a better one [ if you actually can ]

There is absolutely no evidence at all that the female subconscious mind always interprets male sexual signals in the negative
Sexual morality and sexual desire are on a spectrum so some women [ not all ] will want to have sex with a man straight away

Because of free will every woman is free to accept or reject the sexual advances of any man the first time she sees him
They are not bound to come to the same decision independent of each other just because they all happen to be women

This is just another pet theory of yours for which you have precisely zero evidence no matter how much you are convinced of its truth value

Women always show micro expressions of discomfort relative to men for sexual signaling … that’s their subconscious speaking.

I’m not even on the scale of autism like all these other men who plow through women’s micro expressions without noticing or giving a shit.

I’m the anti autism … I am so sensitive that I feel and see with such precision that I know the subconscious mind of men knows for a fact that women are accepting no means yes relationships …

The conscious mind lies and lies and lies…

Not a person like me, who has massive amounts of subconscious in my conscious mind.

You are trying to defend yourself from the indefensible, to protect your egoic addiction.

Women do the same thing.

It’s so hard to get anyone to admit that we are rape babies. That like every other species on earth, we are a rape species. We just do it in a more sophisticated way. It’s easy to demonstrate, but hard to get people to admit.

Being the polar opposite of an autistic, a hyper empath, I see the world through my subconscious, I am a freak of nature.

It should suprize nobody that life has created a person like me amongst the billions of humans.

There’s an ancient Native American saying: “we are nothing by living embodiments of the prayers of our anscestors”

I just happen to have a bigger role to play right now, I’m the embodiment of much bigger and more serious prayers.

I don’t believe in reincarnation, I believe in resonant frequencies, which can give you glimpses into the lives of others.

Anyways, my spirit is simple … I cannot enjoy this life unless zero sum is eliminated.

Think of married people for example: “I’m the winner because nobody else did or can do this”

It’s disgusting.

Not all women show micro expressions of discomfort relative to men in relation to sexual signals
You are generalising for an entire gender and have precisely zero evidence to support this claim

You are the most perceptive of all men because you are just so sensitive to womens subconscious sexual feelings ?
Not only can this particular claim of yours not be demonstrated but it is also incredibly narcissistic and egotistical

You are also not the only man [ or woman ] who has subconscious thoughts and you cannot demonstrate you have any more of them
Everyone with a functioning mind has subconscious thoughts though I am not sure that they exist in the conscious mind as you claim

Consenting adults who have sex are not a rape species - what a very stupid thing to claim
Because the very definition of consent automatically invalidates any notion of rape at all

You seeing the world through your subconscious is only true for you and no one else
And so therefore does not make it objectively true even if you actually think it does

You do not need any resonant frequencies to give you glimpses into the lives of others
For you can easily understand what someone is feeling just by empathising with them
You will though never enjoy your life if you are waiting for zero sum to be eliminated

Ecmandu

Let’s put aside for the moment your, ‘me amongst the billions’, good fortune.

Look back over your statements in previous posts. Do you think that any of them could be interpreted by incels of a, shall we say, darker disposition, as tinder for the fire?

I’m not saying that such was your intention, I’m just asking if you think what you’ve said could be misinterpreted as such.

In some respects, perhaps my tone at times. Content wise, I consider acknowledging facts so that you can approach changing to avoid the harmfulness of some of those facts, the opposite of darkness, and I consider darkness to be the stubborn refusal to acknowledge basic facts, I see it flipped around.

There has not been a consensual adult relationship between any two mammals in the history of this earth, except homosexuals (kind of)

If we want to stop being a rape species, we need to first acknowledge that we are a rape species.

And he would know that we are all showing microexpressions of discomfort at each other’s posts and his posts. And there is discomfort on sellers of products who really want and often need to sell for more but can’t. And suppliers. And buyers who really want to pay less.

Every day he participates in a society where some degree of mixed feelings about every contact, every transaction, every social event, every conversation, every friendship, every loving relationship, every drive made and game played, includes some slight relucatance or fear or distrust or feelings of being used somehow or not getting as much as one wants or deserves.

To be an employee is to be ‘raped’ then. To be an employer. To be a shopper. To be a storeowner. To post here at ILP. To read posts here at ILP.

But he participates in much of this, as we all do and must unless we kill ourselves. Though even this act will be a kind of rape if anyone cares about us or for the person who finds the body. Or for someone who hears about it and finds it depressing.

So the focus is only on sex, where he can be pure. Now sex is very important, don’t get me wrong. More important energetically than most people realize. More causal.

But this holier than thou stance is founded on a life of creating microfears and aggressions in other types of contact. And there he accepts a lack of perfection.

Some monks and priests and holy men have tried to elimante all negative effects. Hiding away in silence, the proverbial cave for religious hermits. But even the act of doing this probably at the very least at first causes some mixed reactions.

I am incarnate. I cannot be perfect today, at least. I live, and it is not perfect yet.

And I don’t need some partial monk judging me a rapist.

A child’s idea of perfection that he does not live up to, as if his hurling blame at all men and women is not a consent violation. Puritanial violence.

Where is the humanity and the heartbreak and the one human to others communciation. History is littered with judgmental supposedly utterly clean souls telling us about the motes in our eyes and judging sex.
snore…

Deny all you want Karpel, all mammals are sex dimorphic species. The subconscious has no choice but to interpret the weaker sex’s discomfort and than acceptance as “no means yes”

We take it out on each other and the environment at large while sublimating it, terrified to admit it.

Monks are not free of blame, they never taught this.

A person like me teaches this, and not even I can have sex without it being rape, what does that say about you and your sex?

You’re terrified that you had to and have to be a rapist to get sex, you’re angry about it.

I was once in your shoes.

You’re fighting your subconscious, as long as you do, you will continue to act out in this way.

You use some kind of bizarre capitalistic argument amongst others… I was never terrified to spend a penny on a bazooka joe bubble gum. Nobody was.

You’re projecting what is necessarily true about sex to other aspects of life where it isn’t true.

Other consent violations in life spring forth from sexual consent violations, sexism the biggest and root problem for consent violation in general over the entire globe.

I wanted to add to this Karpel…

You’re trying to compare apples to apples when it’s about comparing apples to moon rocks …

Men and women hypothetically being discomforted by sexual signaling is not a unilateral issue, women are always MORE uncomfortable than men are.

You’re not changing goal posts, your ignoring the goal posts.

If men and women were equally averse to sexual signaling, I’d have a retarded argument. But that’s not the way the world works on this topic. Women truly are more averse to sexual signaling than men are.

‘Subconscious’ is a term widely used in different types of conversations. I have used it myself many times. But it is a ‘loose’ term and this can be readily noted in that even the greatest of philosophers or psychologists have never been able to conclusively define it. In other words, there is no empirical evidence to support a ‘subconscious’. When you go to a doctor because of a physiological problem he or she may in the course of diagnosis make a comment about your thinking. etc. But they will never come back with results that say the problem is in your subconscious and give you an appropriate prescription for it. Even psychiatrists who expressly treat mental disorders and emotional difficulties cannot conclusively define a patient’s problem as being a ‘subconscious’ one. In short, the subconscious is a supposed area of knowledge, not a confirmable one.

“Not a person like me, who has massive amounts of subconscious in my conscious mind”

“I see the world through my subconscious”

“You’re fighting your subconscious, as long as you do, you will continue to act out in this way”

Those are statements that cannot be proven in the empirical sense. They can only be regarded as statements anchored in suppositional waters, e.g., think of an anchor whose chain extends only to halfway between the boat and the floor of the ocean. It is the appearance of anchoring, but not the functionality of it.

It seems to me that your comments verge very near to being an objectification of women. I do not mean as is usually regarded like sex objects and such, I think your interpretations cast it more as a type of psycho-existential objectification.

"…humans have an existential need to know how to be and act in the world …that humans need a roadmap for living and that culture(s) serve as a psychological defense against the terror inherent in the human condition. Culture(s) serve this essential function by providing a worldview that may be internalized that offers standards that if achieved allows for the construction of self-esteem. Self-esteem, the conviction that one has value in a meaningful world, serves as defense against the potentially crippling anxiety that is resident in the human condition due to our cognitive complexity that allows for the realization of our mortality. The conviction that one is of value in a meaningful world (self-esteem) is proposed as a human need that is addressed and constructed culturally.__ A Psychology of Culture — Michael B. Salzman

I can take every line in that quote and find how it refers to your views especially regarding self-esteem: “The conviction that one is of value in a meaningful world (self-esteem) is proposed as a human need that is addressed and constructed culturally.” If there is a big element to be considered re incels, it is that of self-esteem. Incels are expressing a human need, a biological need not just for sex but for all the other emotional aspects experienced in gender relationships and via those to self-estimations . To not be able to experience that and the consequences of it is something that many people understand even if they’re not incels.

But when it comes to a cultural construct, such as the specific construct presented by the more radical elements of ‘inceldom’, then we are getting into some problems. We’ve already seen some of these problems in the violence that has been committed upon others by some incels and the negativity of commentary on some incel forums. That’s when the line from the above quote, “…a psychological defense against the terror inherent in the human condition” becomes a psychological offense against whatever is perceived as unjust and even inimical. That’s when it gets into a psycho-existential level of engagement. It’s no longer a personal, psychological issue to be addressed, it becomes an existential crisis.

Lastly, the case could be made that the rape scenario you describe is valid. But not as prevailing as you posit it. Rather than some type of ignored element, it is merely one of the many primitive existential constructs that humans have evolved from such as cannibalism and other traits which are no longer in the modern, human repertoire of considerations. You yourself are an example of the discarding of those traits in that you will not commit violence upon a woman to get sex, that to do so you would regard as regressive ignorance. If you are able to do that, then surely there are those, both men and women, who have discarded traits and one of those being the premise of ‘rape’ as you have described it.

As you have said: “If everyone is trained to use better communication for better outcomes sexually as a global community of intentional communities, then we can expect nothing less than better outcomes in all areas of our lives here.”

We may train this way and that, but evolution does the final training overall. Your views on this matter do little to ‘train’ because they are not founded on the sense of community for community, and casts women as lesser humans. They are founded on personal views, and as aforementioned, on concepts of the subconscious which itself has no specific constructs which have been proven, and for those of a more stringent analytical disposition, your claims of personal subconscious prowess would be suspicious, to say the least.

In summation, despite your claims, interpretations, and reasoning, there are just to many holes in your argument to qualify for even relative agreement, let alone universal. Not because of an unwillingness on the part of society to recognize it, but rather that such does little to advance or promote as you’ve noted, “better outcomes in all areas of our lives”. And of course, as you no doubt know, egoic addiction takes many forms, even among those who criticize such addiction. It can happen to the best of us.

Not all trees are weeping willows.

Here’s an article you may find interesting: 23 Former Incels Share Why They Left

What it says is that you are incredibly neurotic to the point of denying that there is such a thing as consensual sex between men and women
For you fail to accept that many women want sex just as enthusiastically as men and this fact alone completely invalidates your rape theory

Here we go again with the extreme generalisations that are entirely evidence free and have zero basis in reality
Women are not ALWAYS more uncomfortable but SOME women SOMETIMES are for a variety of different reasons
Have you bothered testing this theory of yours or are you merely assuming it is true because you want it to be

No he’s too far gone. Gotta cut em loose. I know several like this over the boards, and no amount of intervention will help… believe me. Just try to keep your own brain from turning into pancake batter, and go easy on the ‘philosophy’. Stuff can be extremely dangerous.

I know women want sex, they, like their male counterparts don’t know how to have it consensually.

I’d love to walk up to women and ask them out, be rejected a million times until I find someone.

I have no ulterior motive here.

The subliminal mind is scientific fact, it’s not a vague theory.

The conscious mind by all theories processes somewhere between 7-2000 bits of information per depending on the studies, while the subconscious processes hundreds of billions per second.

We even know for a fact that the mind can watch a movie a 40 frames a second, and a whole book can be inserted at 1000 frames a second, and upon hypnosis, the mind can recite the entire book.

I’m not saying women are the ONLY ones that show discomfort for sexual signaling. I’m saying that relative to men, micro expressions of body language and tone in a relative sense compared to men always shows more aversion to sexual signaling.

I find it very ironic that a board full of accused and condemned (by science and common sense) are talking over me like I’m infantile.

Get back to me when you don’t really have a subconscious like me.

You guys think you’re so smart about consent just because you’ve had sex and a woman rolls around and says she loves you.

That’s an idiots way of determining consent.

What is consent made of?

Good question. We have laws for statutory rape for a reason. Because the older the cognitive age, the more it’s understood that for younger cognitive ages, that the “consent” is coercion (defined as rape)

I’m laying down some knowledge for people and they’re writhing to come to terms with it.

I see it as growing pains.

They don’t want to be responsible adults.

Cherry picking in several different ways. Choose an extreme adjective ‘terrified’ and the example of buying gum. Ignore all the much harder for your position examples around
work life which is filled with consent violations
your own posting which is calling everyone rapists and rape victims whenever they have sex
larger purchases, paying rent or getting loans for a house - and if you think we all don’t have mixed feelings around these things and the sellers don’t, then your degree of introspection is very weak.
Non-sexual relations between people

No none of these things do you have mixed feelings or fears about. There are no consent violations finding yourself in a capitalist (or communist) society and finding a way to survive. There purity is an option, but with sex no.

Your not looking at other aspects of life, because if you did, you would either have to give up your claims to purity or find some utterly impossible way to be pure there also.

Getting food and shelter and being controlled and controlling others in all the ways staying alive entail are just as fundamental areas of denied fear and rage.

You really think calling everyone rapists is not a consent violation? Or do you just trust us not to believe you?

This is more or less a begging the question fallacy.

In fact it says nothing. Because the premise is false.

Yes, telling people true things that they don’t want to hear, always violates their consent. Zero sum relationships violate everyone’s consent, and in a world like this, it’s impossible to not violate anyone’s consent.

You obviously haven’t read me very deeply, so I’m trying to summarize in as few words as possible.

It’s IMPOSSIBLE in this world system to not violate consent.