Dimethyltryptamine and psychedelics

Pandora,

“I don’t belive that drugs evolved us, although there is an argument for hallucination induced cave art based on sensory deprivation.
But hallucinogens are incompatible with survival in the wild. This would have been a quick error in natural selection trial.”

To be honest Pandora, in reality, we consist of drugs and as life, a continuous reaction of drugs/substances, we evolve or devolve based on them, it doesn’t matter what you or I “believe”.

Hallucinogens are incompatible with survival in the wild? Explain that to animals, who literally are “the wild” that use drugs to get high. Dolphins, cats, deer, etc. We are the wild as well, are you trying to separate us from it when we are manifested from and in it?

“This is the trap of the drugs: answer is in the drugs and drugs are the answer. Reminds me of the ketamine addiction piece with James Kent”

I’m not trapped at all, I still follow the universal laws in my model of thinking and reaching conclusions and possibilities.

The answer isn’t in the drugs but if you wish to have evidence of what I am describing to you for yourself yeah because I can’t describe blue to you, I’m me for a reason. I had answers and understanding before I used psychedelics I already stated, can go through my posts and see for yourself too, the psychedelics are merely the visual/conscious evidence that can be broken down subjectively.

“Well, if death is an illusion, then so is life. What else do you have left? Are you alive? Do you exist, Altimas?”

Life and death are merely the same coin, both need each other to have a balance, I’m alive but I can choose to die, don’t get a choice in being born though. Death in the sense of “ceasing to experience” isn’t the case, only as what you are currently, the ego ceases. We are eternal on repeat. Law of conservation and understanding of environment proves that alone.

“Psychedelics are not your friends trying to guide you through evolution. That’s not what poisons do. You’d get more use out of eating an omelette.”

You’re right, it’s a lot better than that. It’s me guiding myself using my subconsciousness to communicate with my consciousness/ego. Except it isn’t a poison when it is near identical in molecular structure to serotonin in our brain.

"thats already a disrespectful attitude towards that which has made you. "

I don’t disrespect it, I advocate for it and advocate for conscious choice of evolving. It’s a fact that sober, conscious perception is limited, not disrespect.

“Mundane and basic is not irrelevant.”

You’re right, it isn’t, it is merely another contrast. When we do evolve collectively it will be that much sweeter. If, we evolve instead of going extinct from willful ignorance and devolution.

“In other words, drugs are the answer.”

Not the answer, just the painting to view, a tool to use to connect and communicate with the self/subconscious for reflection. Like a mirror I’ve said.

“chemical brainwashing. I think the drug cartels are in full agreement with you here, except that one small recurrent detail…that all such roads inevitably lead back… to drugs. Coincidence?
The new alpha and the omega.”

Chemical and environmental brainwashing takes place everyday, do you even watch society or understand it? We’re literally being bred to be passive, docile and ignorant to make this society function for rich groups at the top who deem themselves more superior than the rest of life.

I had mistakenly confined myself to the term ‘psychedelic’ drawn by the OP.
Pyschedelic experiences are triggered by psychedelics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_experience

My intent was to use the wider Altered States of Consciousness [ASC].
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_s … sciousness

ASCs can be triggered by psychedelic drugs and many other triggers [religious, spiritual, secular, etc.] which I had listed before.

I agree there is the subconscious [90%] and the conscious [10%] parts of the mind and self. A human being is self-powered and self-referential. The subconscious with a weightage of 90% will heavily influence the mind and self while the conscious mind with a 10% weightage has little power to influence the self and mind. However the conscious mind with wise use can manage and module the forceful impulses of the subconscious mind.

I am into ‘spirituality’ involving meditations and breathing techniques which after a long while triggered DMT-liked altered states of consciousness intermittently which is not as drastic as those reported by the ones who took psychedelics.
One of the maxim of spirituality is, “Do overact and be attached to Altered States of Consciousness, no matter how pleasing or terrible they feel.”
Bhagavad Gita: “Do not attached to the fruits of actions.”
Of course if there are knowledge and wisdom to tap from ASC, then we take it.

What is critical within spirituality is the developments of algorithms [new or established] to higher level so that one can manage and modulate the impulses from the subconscious mind and conscious mind.
Note impulse controls;
The Problem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_control_disorder
One solution: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness

My main point with psychedelics re OP is;
It is possible the founders of religion could have experienced altered states of consciousness via psychedelics or other triggers.
I am not referring to those who later founded the organized religions but rather the founder who is associated with the religion whose experiences and name could have been exploited by the latter groups for political and control of the masses.

I believe the story of a Gautama Siddharta giving up his right to a throne is a pure myth to convey the organized doctrines of Buddhism.

However if there was one real Prince Gautama Siddharta giving up his rights to a throne, it could be he had experienced some sort of altered states of consciousness due to a tumor or lesion or rare wirings in the brain which he was not aware of. It is beyond common sense for a Prince then 2500 years ago to give up his right to a throne just like that.

Perhaps not within Buddhism, but it is very common with many sects within Hinduism where followers use drugs and hallucinogens. It also practice within other spiritual cultures.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_drugs

Personally, I think ALL humans should be given access to DMT limited to small doses [illegal where I am] but taken with a well developed stable psychological state of positivity and steady impulse control, then humanity will be able to accelerate more permanent peace of earth.

I believe it is highly possible if not a fact that drugs have evolved us, reactions chemically/molecular and environmentally (stress) which causes the body to secrete more molecules/reactions and causes faster aging/death if in extremes.

The issue with today is that most people aren’t 90% subconscious. they’re 90% ego and 10% consciousness, which makes it difficult to help them or guide them to an understanding so that we may cease this mess of a species, we’re disorganized collectively and then people wonder how “God” abandoned us, we abandoned ourselves for a technological world, a devolution, comforts over change, exploration and fast paced evolution.

Even if past ancients never took a psychedelic, the altered state of consciousness or if I understand correctly, I refer to it as “the zone” a clearer time of thinking, a conscious meditative state in a sense. Yes, you see… it is like that with psychedelics too, to accept it even if it is bad because there is much to learn in the bad, mistakes, pain, etc… We see lessons, errors, it’s a criticism of one’s ego by self. People refer to this as a “bad trip, ego death” in psychedelic culture, but a bad trip doesn’t truly exist if the message is heard and understood fully, it is insightful.

Well it isn’t beyond common sense though because it is a state of mind to be achieved when one may understand what is and ones effect on environment. Meditation and reflection on self can lead to a lot of answers, especially if one is given an environment of struggle or if one may empathize and see an environment of struggle to relate to.

Yeah that’s true, pagans used psychedelics too and their gods were archetypes of themselves, with added on exaggerations, expression of psyche.

I am viewing it from another perspective.

Our instinctual drives and impulses are pulsating from the subconscious mind [90%] which is very hard for the conscious mind to control.
Note how hard it is for many with lack of impulse control to control the various addictions.
There are many obese who eat themselves to death even when they know the fact they will die from obesity.

It is worst when this active unmodulated instincts are combined with an overactive ego “I” that generates arrogance, narcissism, grandeur, psychopathy, and the likes.

The point is the subconscious will always be a 90% force via evolution and the conscious only 10%. The question is how we can use the best of our conscious reason to modulate the terrible forces of the subconscious [survival, sex, hunger, water, breathing, fight, flight, aggression, etc.]. It is like the need to build smart dams to control the forces of the big rivers towards good uses.

Personally, I think ALL humans should be given access to DMT [or similar] limited to small doses [illegal where I am] but taken with a well developed stable psychological state of positivity and steady impulse control, then humanity will be able to accelerate more permanent peace of earth.

I actually do agree with that, the subconscious is 90% because it’s also what reality/nature is manifested from.

Well I believe we may attain more consciousness through understanding and seeking change and diversity (evolving), since consciousness did evolve out of subconsciousness, I feel as if there are levels to consciousness and a certain state of mind can lead us further up instead of down because our ideas, our choices, our language, really matters, to both extremes and lows in and of environment/reality.

I think the war on drugs should end and we invest in opening real education institutions, an environment that guides individuals to the process of how to think and stay educated, stoicism, education on the self and the understanding of what is necessary to understand in order to reach the state of mind needed to be balanced in life. Must be educated on contrast as well. I think we should open rehabilitation centers that provides real education of self and coping with existential crisis. I also think we should have psychedelic culture environment, a place to seek self and to reflect through means of molecular altering/drugs, with a positive but enlightening guide. Like in LOTR, Gandalf with Bilbo how he exclaims “do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks!” and the room went dark and intimidating, but then turns soft and it helps Bilbo understand that Gandalf could have already hurt him if he wanted too but it was never Gandalfs intention and then that is what shows him the contrast and leads him to understand that Gandalf is his friend, truly.

Also since the third eye was brought up or pineal gland, I thought I’d bring up sun gazing as an opposite to dark/deprivation of consciousness or conscious meditation.

Since we may reflect in the dark, we may gather energy and information out of light from the sun, absorb the benefits, possibly monatomic gold or single active-atom molecules, balance though between both.

I believe in the present circumstance I would agree to the use of certain acceptable psychedelics, e.g. ayahuasca, etc. under serious controlled environment to be open to ALL.

However we can wean off the above when we have greater knowledge of the brain, the subconscious mind and our ability to have holistic fool proof enhancements to our brain performance.

Note the advancement of the Human Connectome Project
humanconnectomeproject.org/
to track every neural connections within the brain to its effects.
Then [in 50, 100 or 150 years time] we will be able to train and develop the human brain to its optimal best towards the overall good of humanity.

Sun gazing is too dangerous??
Re meditation, I have read of people starring into light bulbs and candles which can damage the retina.

There are meditations that focus on the various bright lights emerging within the mind.

Once we have mapped the Human Connectome, we will be able to understand the role of the Pineal Gland. I am not into that at present till I have objective facts about it.

However research has show if certain parts of the temporal lobe is activated by various means, it does produce altered state consciousness in many.

Have you heard of the law of attraction and monatomic elements? I can upload some pictures for you if you haven’t heard of the elements.

To evolve the brain is to choose what environment one is in and the chemicals/sustenance one uses to survive and live for the next day, by us consuming more molecules and substances we either develop a resistance if they’re “toxic” but beneficial, we can choose low dosing and breed resistances into our collective species so we may expand further in being able to sense and perceive by consciously creating new substances or reactions.

This is how the dog was bred, we bred out a lot of their primitive wolf-like instincts and features, by substances, genetics and length of time for change to occur and this is a cycle of consciousness, we could breed dogs and mammals to be almost as conscious as us but they do not have hands and limbs to craft tools so that is why they haven’t naturally already, we do though which means if we over time and breeding, introduce substances that are toxic or bad to one it may become beneficial and perceived as good over a possibly long period of time due to building a bodily tolerance/resistance “stress breeding the strong, trial and error, selective breeding and chemical inducing” Same thing applies to us, it’s us acting as nature/god because we are it.

The issue is getting others to understand and help them to this state of mind or perception. “The bigger image”.

Sun gazing I mean. Closing your eyes and directing your body toward the sun so the pineal gland on the front of the head can absorb sunlight, which it makes special use of, I mean it would make sense due to reptiles using one as well and being desert creatures.

It is not the same reality. I see it as a corruption of perception of reality.

The often recurring theme in drug use (and other spiritual quests) is the goal of dissolving ego. One of the functions of ego is reality testing or recognizing and modulating the boundary between conscious and unconscious material (reality vs one’s personal feeling about reality). When ego is dissolved (or weakened) the person is no longer able to distinguish between the two. The goal for a healthy personality should not be to destroy one’s ego, but to discipline and strengthen it.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_principle

. And only two of those fall within normal human experiences. The drug induced experience is either accidental (as in case of poisoning) or artificially induced. I’m not schizophrenic either, and yet, I know of the dangers of treating such information equally. They do not belong to the same reality, and should not be treated equally.

. I’ve been studying dreams and the subconscious and honestly I have not really learned anything significant or life changing from my dreams. One thing that I did learn is that it is not a good idea to blend conscious and the subconscious, or to dive head fast into unconscious. When you don’t have any bearings (another function of ego) and nothing to go on, except perhaps your subconscious fears or desires, you’re as good as lost. It’s like getting into car with a blind driver.

Well, coming from you, I couldn’t really tell if you’re being literal or figurative.

No, I don’t have experience of LSD or or other psychadelics, nor do I feel the need to try them, but I think you already know that, and you know my position of drug use. I do have some experience with Jungian psychology and hypnosis, and I know of dangers of tinkering with subconscious. When your critical judgement is subdued what you perceive and what someone perceives from outside looking in is not the same, and in such a case, I would go with the outside perspective as being more correct one. Some small examples, everyone is hailing ayahuasca drinking ceremony as the holy or holies. But who really pays attention to the fact that the physical body, after drinking ayahuasca, wants to violently expel it from all orifices? The body treats it as poison. Is the body wrong when it tries to cleanse itself from it? The guru Terrance McKenna achieved a great following and drug induced visions (“insights”), but could not even save his own marriage. Most famous drug users are not involved in practical day to day concerns. Most are story tellers, writers, actors, musicians, comedians, or philosophers, etc. They dive into phantasmagorical worlds only to recreate them, visually, acoustically, or literarily. What about realistic solutions to complex real world problems such as poverty, world hunger, overpopulation, etc., something that does not involve people joining the drug culture, or turning to drugs for answers?

. We don’t need to use psychadelics to do that. Understanding acquired under impaired perception will produce a wrong understand of self and the world.

I’m saying drug induced insights have no use in our continual survival. It seems like you want everybody drugged up and living in a hive mind of some sort.

. We only think we don’t. The bubble is quite fragile and when it bursts, everything will revert back to how it has always worked, even before our first ancestors climbed down the trees.

It increases an awareness of redundant things, which you call mindfulness. It’s like being an infant who’s endlessly fascinated by all kinds of stimuli around him. You call it enhanced perception; and I call it ultimate retardation.

[You’re probably one of those weird asmr people, too, or that’s something you and other drug users would really like, endless fascination with random and irrelevant stimuli (noise). I bet they call it mindfulness, too. That fad itself also smells very Japanese to me in its mind-set, and Japanese happen to also have quite weak egos. (It’s quite popular with other Asians, too). The “attractive” factor is that it’s not rational or sits down the rational part of the brain. ]

. But not by dissolving ego. It is your only tether to reality.

none of these substances impair the rational mind, nor cause hallucinations or alter the sense of self. You should not be comparing psychadelics with coffee or sugar.

this is nonsense. Just because the subconscious does not have a concept of time, it does not mean it’s eternal. It does not mean that consciousness is eternal. This is an error in thinking. I do understand the allure of timelessness, though, and that could be the driving force.

. It’s called brain hacking for a reason.

. I’m going to pass this one.

it’s playing a redefining game. The ego, the guardian of reality, is now the evil one, and is holding the “real self” hostage. The evil one has to be dissolved so that the “real self” can emerge and manifest to us the nature of the ultimate reality. Want to see for yourself? Just kill the ego! How brazen is it to say such things when everything in nature around contradicts it.

The reality is not the subconscious. That’s subjective reality.

that the subconscious is more like chaos, yes.

Conscious as dream of the subconscious? Sounds like an inverted or confused perspective to me. Did you mean instincts? Just because we evolved additional perceptions, such as self-awareness and sense of time, does not mean they are illusory, or just a dream. Why waste so much effort with trial and error? Just to dream? In evolution, things that don’t keep pace with reality disappear. Our higher functions evolved to facilitate this, they were not arbitrary.

. You’re romanticising subconscious again. The danger of delving into subconscious is that you may become lost in it. It takes over and you’re essentially sleepwalking. Hypnosis works this way too (and you can hypnotize yourself). The subconscious can trick you, as well. One example that happens in lucid dreaming work is false awakening. You don’t want the subconscious taking over your conscious.

. The egos job is to negotiate between different environments. It has to be discriminating.

But your “conscious” evolution involves giving control to the subconscious, the one you call eternal and wise.

. You cannot weaken ego AND get rid of instincts like fear or anger; that’s ultimate hacking and suicide (…homicide?)

. I can see their effects on your judgement.

or they think they do.

And I was warning you that manifesting subconscious is dangerous on the account that you can become “lost in it”. You’re already giving it the preference- eternal subconscious as the driver and source of all. There is a reason why it was designed to stay hidden, and it’s not so that you can go on some divine treasure hunt and find the key to universe and everything. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy perception loop, that some people do not escape from.

Pandora shakes her head Based on what you’ve been saying so far it is not science but mysticism you are after, but what you will get is psychosis.
You will get what you really want. Not reality, but your reality. The subconscious will give you that.

You’re equating things like evolution and psychadelic drugs. I do not see a connection. Hallucinations are not conductive to survival, hense they are not compatible. In fact, you should not be using them in the same sentence.

Yes, if only it can fill a stomach of a starving child in Africa. Does he care if a famous actor makes his world better by hanging a psychadelic painting on his mansion wall?
Also, your bigger image of eternal subconscious that dreamt reality into being, including consciousness and ego and all, just because, is very questionable.

If you give subconscious the reigns, you’re no longer in control.

. It’s not the same, because you’re interfering the the same perception apparatus that is supposed to explore reality. That’s why all scientific instruments have to be carefully calibrated before hand.

That’s a bad starting premise. Why would one want to seek reality in illusion?

. I didn’t talk about death. Is the goal to bypass the fear of death?

So I take it you just don’t want to pay the price of higher awareness, so you devolve your consciousness, or redefine reality and self. Again, the allure of timelessness.

Do not compare coffee, sugar and red meat to hallucinogens. I have never tripped or hallucinated on coffee, or eating a steak.

. People find other ways out. Some people move to other countries. Some go off the grid. It’s actually pretty amazing what solutions people come up with if you really look into it. And drugs are not involved, just research and actually going out and looking for those things.

I do not deny that my ego needs some work, but drugs are not part of it.

I think I already explained to you why drugs cannot be responsible for our evolution. And drugs are now becoming increasingly legal and popular. Where is the government conspiracy here? Where I live, there is a homelessness and drug problem. The government turns a blind eye on it, and just keeps throwing more tax payer money on it, and it’s only getting worse. Did more drugs help those people?

How long would a hallucinating person survive in the wild? One hour? One day? A couple of days?

Is it a coincidence that a hallucinating person needs a safe and protective environment to trip in?

————
In fact, most such spirit world gurus require assistance even in basic living requirements such as food and shelter, which they usually acquire from their brainwashed followers.

A monk is revered, even as he carries a begging bowl around him. What kind of spirit world is it that cannot stand on its own, except in words and unconfirmable promises?

Why such dependency of that which claims to be so lofty? Because it’s “too good” for normal world? Too special? Because its people have transcended the mundance world, even while needing protection and shelter from it? What an irony.

Nope. OK I’ll see the pictures.

Noted the above for dogs and others but those are trial and error methods which we may be unethical for humans because there naturally and likely side-effects and defects.

However, the advancement of the Human Genome and Human Connectome project can enable potential to advance human development in some ways via targeted, specific, fool proof [no side effects] and holistic methods.