Sure. I don’t disagree. That is the implication of determinsm.
Are you trying to say it is unreasonable of me to think you are not responding to me as other people do? If so, then this message should go to you also. I really don’t know what you are on about. Are you angry that a determinist gets irritated with you? Because you can’t help but be who you are? Is that what you are saying? You might want to mull over the irony in that.
Me, I black box determinism/free will.
You attributed a complicated abstract reasoning process to a preference of mine. I said that was silly and that it was more like preferring an ice cream flavor. My point is only stronger in the context of determinism. IOW exactly! they are alike. So you don’t have to make up some complicated hysterically convoluted contraption for my preference. I didn’t concoct an understanding of pragmatism to choose vanilla as my childhood favorite flavor. You see contraptions and complicated, very abstract mental thinky verbal ones when someone is different from you. Not everyone decides everything via working it out logically and in words in their minds. I did not sit down and decide my understanding of pragmatism and then apply this to the issue of free will and determinism. I find that it does not interest me much and no one has every said anything that pulls me away from my gut reaction. Maybe they will, but so far it is just like someone telling me I should be more interested in butterscotch.
This is precisely the kind of thing that Ecmandu is pointing out as a victim stance. Of course pointing out what I think it is the case, might change your mind. and yes, I think it is the case. You seem to be saying here 1) you can never change your mind because of determinism - which runs counter to all your ramblings about dasein and not knowing what you will believe in the future 2) that you are victimized if someone else asserts what they think is the case. 3) that no determinist can assert what they think is the case or they are victimizing 4) that I am a determinist.
I disagree with all of those.
You don’t need free will to change your mind. You do understand that right? You can learn, even in a determined universe.
Great. So when you assumed I had one, that was a poor assumption.
Oh, you are victimizing me. I should prioritize it like you do? The universe may be dtermined but if it is, I can’t help but not priortize it like I do. Poor me.
You do understand that you cannot possibly imagine it is correct to not prioritize finding the answer to dterminism vs. free will. YOu don’t justify this, but you express it. Which is fine, it’s just you don’t seem to notice.
Sarcasm and flustered don’t fit well together. They are both negative, generally, but they do not fit the same reaction.
I got annoyed because nothing I said indicated I did not understand something we have gone through many times.
Perhaps I am utterly determined to get irritated when someone continuously tells me things they have told me before as if I need to understand it and yet I have shown this before.
Perhaps I am freely choosing to get irritated.
I can live with either one of those being the case.
I’ve told you before. You repeat things you have said hundreds of times as if they are relevent when they often are not. You do not respond directly to points made, but they often seem to remind you of positions that you repeats, yet again. You attribute contraptions to things that do not require contraptions, whenever I suffer less than you - or seem to - or when I differ from you. You do not respond to points made about, for example your use of the term contraptions that do not match the dictionary definitions, but come back to contraptions and use it again the same way. I point out that I did not need to concoct an understanding of pragmatism to not be interested in finding the solution to determinism vs free will. Many posts later - in this last post - you agree with me. But you never conceded the point. Then right after agreeing you go back and start building an argument where is seems like you don’t actually agree. A couple of posts ago, I point out that you were assuming I had concocted some understanding of pragmatism to reach a belief that figuring out if determinism is the case is not that important. I discuss this as you see contraptoins where there are mere preferences. then I add that you have a habit of seeing contraptions when people disagree with you or suffer less. Your response included asking me for specific examples. BUT I HAD CLEARLY GIVEN YOU A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. So it is as if you don’t read my posts. I find this irritating. And it is not an exception, I find it to be the rule. I do not find this to be the rule with other posters. I find your level of seeming not to read, when taking into consideration your intelligence, remarkable.
That’s the kind of thing that pisses me off. I do know what your self-serving interpretation is - since you’ve told me before.
I also find you fascinating. It’s embarrassing, but I do. Look, your points about dasein and conflicting goods are fine. Sometimes when you engage with specfic objectivists, it’s pleasant to watch. But your whole pattern of relating…I know you don’t understand why ecmandu would say something like that. You don’t come off as someone much interested in psychology or the specific kinds of introspection associated with that. Fine. But consider that certain things might be obvious to other people but not to you. There’s a boatload of cognitive science research that says this is possible and in general applicable to everyone, though some more than others.
Pehraps we are reacting to contradictions and confusions you just are not aware of because you focus on the everyman, the predicament we all find ourselves in, as opposed to wanting to know much about your own personal responses to trauma, emotional pain, isolation, existential crises, your parents, etc. I am not saying you should be interested in anything else. Your choice.
I am sayng that perhaps the way you feel victimized and position yourself as the brave person facing the extential void, mistreated by others who are triggered by the issues I raise and cannot face them…
That all that may be missing that we can actually see something about what you are doing and how it is not what you think it is.
Note: this is not an agrume to convince you. That would look very different. This is me saying: consider that you have a giant blind spot regarding what you are doing here. Cause sure looks like it.
When you ‘suspect’ you know why I get ‘flustered’ and ‘sarcastic’, it really comes off as just silly to me.
And that interpretation you have, this self protecting interpretation fits perfectly with Ecmandu’s summation of the way you position yourself in relation to others. If you want to call this all psychobabble, this is just you showing that for all your talk about dasein, in the end, you can no longer actually consider that it applies to you and how you behave. You have gotten beyond all that, since you are in the hole.
There is shit you just don’t want to look at and it shines in most of your posts. Or so it seems. There is something that does not fit, in some big way. Whetehr you are aware of it or not and exactly what it is, I don’t known. I suspect Ecmandu is right, but I am nto sure. I suspect that rage drives you much more than concern about finding the answers, though I suspect you don’t know this. This is all what is fascinating.
And every single post in response to me contains stuff that just adds to this. The avoidance, the repetition, the not fitting together, the positioning of yourself as the only of (of few at most) who can just be in the hole wihtout making up contraptions to comfort yourself, etc.
It happens over and over. And no matter who points it out, you go ad hom and say it is them not being able to face the hole. You say you aren’t sure, but you go there, sooner or later.
The fascinating thing is, as I think it: does Iamb truly no notice at least in his periperhal vision, that something else might be going on when he posts and relates to others here than what he puts forward? So the temptation returns: hold a mirror up. Nope, not that time. Hold up a different mirror, focused on something else. Nope. I mean, perhaps I should not be surprised. I have been quite oblivious to things that were obvious to others about me. We are good at defending ourselves. But there it is.
Then why incredulously lecture me yet again about dasein or the implications of determinism. If it was relevent it had to be a ‘seeing a need to remind me of these things’, if it wasn’t relevent, why bring it up.
I’ve told you all this before. Of course I cannot know how you and I are different, so there could be many different causes to why I am not in a hole. Maybe my form of PTSD and what I did about it is different from yours and what you did about yours. The way we emotionally react to things need not come from rationally reached cnoclusions. It seems implicit in your reactions to others that if they are different from you they have some kind of different ideology. This need not be the case. They could have less. I suspect that while we each think we have no access to an objective morality, you think you SHOULD find it and do every thing you can to find it. I do not have that contraption. I suspect you will deny you have that contraption and just repeat your incredulity that anything else could be more important like you did above. But you act like and often write like you follow a moral must. and it’s one I do not have.
I try to find out what I want - which, yes, can change - and achieve, allow for, create that and to prevent things that I do not like. Stuff you do also. I just don’t add on some of the goals you seem to have.
IOW
I also do not
I do not have a contraption that says I must do that.
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People disagree with me. If you move out into political discussions with preferences or morals, you will be drawn and quartered, or at least one will meet people trying to do that emotionally at least.
I am not saying life is easy or I have it all solved. It is fucking hard. I think it is possible you are creating extra problems for yourself and/or displacing pain about other things onto abstract philosophical issues.