Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:02 pm

big dipper wrote:Good stuff! The author is quite perceptive.


bruh you have no idea. this chick is to philosophy what deep blue is to chess and diane sawyer is to journalism. met her nearly a decade ago at revleft.com when i was still a card carrying marxist. we ended up hooking up in the opposing ideologies forum, both of us banned from the regular forums; her for her assault on their sacred philosopher 'that wind-bag hegel', and me for expressing fascist sentiments. sentiments i still sorta have which prevent me from carrying my card any longer. i simply cannot believe the state will ever 'wither away' at the end stage of a revolution, or that a revolution can be sustained without any central party dictatorship. this is what characterized me as a totalitarian communist, which might as well mean i'm a fascist. the commies wouldn't buy it and tried to beat me up... so i was like fuck ya'll i'm an anarchist then, and i turned in my standard issued army green cuban revolutionary uniform and bought a mad max costume. and i've never been back since. what the fuck was i supposed to do? these people think a government will just spontaneously organize and hold it down while three quarters of the world is trying to destroy them? that's why mao and stalin were necessary, hombre. that stateless state marx talks about is highly unlikely to ever happen.

what i'm saying is that lenin's vanguard party is something i think will always be necessary... so that while indeed a revolution might be generated 'from the bottom', it won't hold any ground without a central proletarian dictatorship quickly materializing. and if that's the case, it no longer matters whether or not it comes from the top or bottom; it ends up becoming the same thing... at least until every country on the planet is part of it. as long as there is an enemy still prowling the earth, a central party has to be established to oversee the fight against the parasites of capitalism and imperialism still lurking about.

this whole stateless state won't happen until the entire planet is revolutionized.

and this will take a loooong time. capitalism/comsumerism has dumbed everyone down so much it might take another century before humanity begins to grow up and the working classes pull their brainwashed heads out of their asses.
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby Serendipper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:35 pm

promethean75 wrote:
big dipper wrote:Good stuff! The author is quite perceptive.


bruh you have no idea. this chick is to philosophy what deep blue is to chess and diane sawyer is to journalism. met her nearly a decade ago at revleft.com when i was still a card carrying marxist. we ended up hooking up in the opposing ideologies forum, both of us banned from the regular forums; her for her assault on their sacred philosopher 'that wind-bag hegel', and me for expressing fascist sentiments. sentiments i still sorta have which prevent me from carrying my card any longer. i simply cannot believe the state will ever 'wither away' at the end stage of a revolution, or that a revolution can be sustained without any central party dictatorship. this is what characterized me as a totalitarian communist, which might as well mean i'm a fascist. the commies wouldn't buy it and tried to beat me up... so i was like fuck ya'll i'm an anarchist then, and i turned in my standard issued army green cuban revolutionary uniform and bought a mad max costume. and i've never been back since. what the fuck was i supposed to do? these people think a government will just spontaneously organize and hold it down while three quarters of the world is trying to destroy them?

Well, do you advocate the top-down or bottom-up approach that she mentioned? Fascism is top-down and there's nothing social about national socialism; it's a complete misnomer.

The main difference is whether the state is controlled democratically by the people or controlled authoricratically by a small group of elites or just one guy.

that's why mao and stalin were necessary, hombre. that stateless state marx talks about is highly unlikely to ever happen.

It's a function of prosperity and energy costs. If energy were free, then there is no justification for a monetary system (except to impoverish people in preservation of a class system). 100 years ago 100 lbs of sugar took 10 hours of labor to purchase with a median income. Today it's 1 hour and in another century it will be 6 min and another century 36 seconds, etc (assuming linearity, but it's more likely exponential). At what point does it become a waste of time to charge someone for the sugar? Money will be antiquated eventually and I think Marx saw that. There is no reason for a government if there is nothing to protect because of such abundance. Marx never intended that communism be enforced.

The-six-stages-of-Marxs-theory-of-history-of-class-struggle.jpg
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You like the Sopranos? https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.u ... ode=s04e11

Tony: You know what she says? This broad she's from Russia, dirt poor. She had some kind of osocarma disease in her leg when she was nine. She says that nowhere else in the world do people expect to be happy except for here in this country, and still we're not. And we got everything. And when we're not, what do we do? We go to shrinks. For what, $6 or $7 a minute?

Melfi: There's some truth to what she says. But should that be a source of shame? That when the desperate struggle for food and shelter is finally behind us we can turn our attention to other sources of pain and truth?

Tony: "Pain and truth." Come on, I'm a fat fucking crook from New Jersey.


We are constantly finding new sources of pain and injustice to correct after old perils have been addressed.

So, according to Marx, the feudal capitalistic class structures eventually bring sufficient prosperity to cause people to crusade for more and more social reforms; therefore, capitalism inevitably leads to socialism and the prosperity wrought from the implementation of socialism then ushers in communism when a government is no longer required to fix stuff. This makes sense right?

what i'm saying is that lenin's vanguard party is something i think will always be necessary... so that while indeed a revolution might be generated 'from the bottom', it won't hold any ground without a central proletarian dictatorship quickly materializing. and if that's the case, it no longer matters whether or not it comes from the top or bottom; it ends up becoming the same thing... at least until every country on the planet is part of it. as long as there is an enemy still prowling the earth, a central party has to be established to oversee the fight against the parasites of capitalism and imperialism still lurking about.

You're probably correct in the context of our current technological development, but I foresee Marxian communism as an inevitability.

this whole stateless state won't happen until the entire planet is revolutionized.

and this will take a loooong time. capitalism/comsumerism has dumbed everyone down so much it might take another century before humanity begins to grow up and the working classes pull their brainwashed heads out of their asses.

You could be right, but we could at least have socialism in the mean time.
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby Serendipper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:52 pm

Oh, I could also add:

As the great Max Planck, himself the originator of the quantum theory in physics, has said, science makes progress funeral by funeral: the old are never converted by the new doctrines, they simply are replaced by a new generation. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/09/25/progress/

It's a matter of time.

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A flu pandemic would speed it along. It's sad, but I don't have much sympathy for the arrogant. If they were reasonable, their death wouldn't be a prerequisite of freedom.

Every beer consumed on sunday is a toast to those who can no longer vote.
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:31 pm

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library ... hing-to-me

this is an interesting angle, and much like my recently adopted strinerism i'd not call it my original position - which wasn't yet radically misanthropic, libertine and nihilistic - but rather the last philosophical option available in this world, which has proven to be so banal it, and the people in it, cannot be taken seriously. one abandons the project to invest any effort in the humanities, and begins to see the world as something to be used and consumed. the irony here is that it is those who've taken this as their original position (i can smell them out) that so offend and disgust me, while those who have become the nihilist at the sight of this ignoble farce are the one's i can tip my hat to. one has to earn their nihilism after years of carefully observing the world. it's an accomplishment, not something one begins with or is given. finally the decadence movement begins to make sense; the baudelaires and rimbauds and de sades suddenly appear as sages. i only hope that they were not originally degenerates, but became so as the nihilist proper who 'kicks what is already falling' after having made a great effort to cooperate, to hold it up. one doesn't earn the right to kick anything unless they've done their best to keep it from falling, first. my anarchism, egoism, and nihilism are therefore honorary titles. i've ascended to stirner... earned the right and privilege of this liberating force. if these words are not something that immediately strike you as autobiographical, familiar and prophetic, then unread them, for you have either already dropped the ball, or you're not in the game.
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby Serendipper » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:14 am

promethean75 wrote:https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/jacob-blumenfeld-all-things-are-nothing-to-me

this is an interesting angle, and much like my recently adopted strinerism i'd not call it my original position - which wasn't yet radically misanthropic, libertine and nihilistic - but rather the last philosophical option available in this world, which has proven to be so banal it, and the people in it, cannot be taken seriously. one abandons the project to invest any effort in the humanities, and begins to see the world as something to be used and consumed. the irony here is that it is those who've taken this as their original position (i can smell them out) that so offend and disgust me, while those who have become the nihilist at the sight of this ignoble farce are the one's i can tip my hat to. one has to earn their nihilism after years of carefully observing the world. it's an accomplishment, not something one begins with or is given. finally the decadence movement begins to make sense; the baudelaires and rimbauds and de sades suddenly appear as sages. i only hope that they were not originally degenerates, but became so as the nihilist proper who 'kicks what is already falling' after having made a great effort to cooperate, to hold it up. one doesn't earn the right to kick anything unless they've done their best to keep it from falling, first. my anarchism, egoism, and nihilism are therefore honorary titles. i've ascended to stirner... earned the right and privilege of this liberating force. if these words are not something that immediately strike you as autobiographical, familiar and prophetic, then unread them, for you have either already dropped the ball, or you're not in the game.

Then what?

Reminds me of:

"That is why a person who might be enlightened (a bodhisattva) does not always present a kind of detached and indifferent attitude but is perfectly free to allow emotions [and] attachments. Why R.H. Blyth who was a great zen man wrote me once and said “How are you these days? As for me, I have abandoned satori (enlightenment) altogether and I’m trying to become as deeply attached as I can to as many people and things as possible.” - Alan Watts

It's ok to play games if you know they are games ;)
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:57 pm

serendipper wrote:Then what?


then you die.... rinse, and repeat.

thanks for the ancient eastern wisdom, but i never put much stock in those philosophies. i'd take the zen if you gave me the samurai version, but buddhism in general is too passive and something i avoid. now i could get into some hinduism and would be willing to greet the sacred cow if you brought me to em.
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby Serendipper » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:00 pm

Zen is nihilism minus the puppet.
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:47 pm

here's an angle on the situation.

drugs keep flooding over the border so let's spend a gazillion dollars building a wall. why are drugs coming over the border. well because there's a demand for them. who's demanding them. holy shit. look at this; who's doing all the drugs? the wealthy upper middle classes, or the lower working classes. the lower classes, well because they're miserable and drugs give them the fix they need to get from day to day. they're too goddamn broke and shit's way to fucking expensive to get ahead anyway... might as well buy a bag rather than put that money in a pickle jar, right? well are they miserable because they're on drugs, or are the on drugs because they're miserable? i bet you can guess.

here's my idea. we seize all the money and assets from the parasites that have it all, redistribute it back to those who produced the wealth (the workers), get them set up in a decent life in which they'll find healthier ways to enjoy themselves, assign them to a job at which they can be productive, lower the demand for drugs and therefore the illegal traffic over the border, remove trump from office and give him a job at bojangles working the fry pit, stop building the wall, and spend that gazillion in more useful ways for the society.

side note to those imbeciles who believe the left is a threat to the paternal institutions that define conservative ideology. it is precisely the left that will institute the necessary authoritarian structures that will circumvent the excessive freedoms that exist in the free market society that allow the scum bags of the useless lower class to become miserable drug addicts.

i never tire of hearing the right complain about all the problems of the lower classes... which is the glorious mess that it has made. then the government goes to spending outrageous amounts of money to fix the problems that capitalism creates, while screaming that capitalism is the solution.

and another thing. you think all the mexicans would be trying to cross the border if mexican industry were more stablized? and what do you think caused the destablization of that country's economy? lazy mexicans and lack or resources? nope. bad infrastructure? yep. and why is that? because the wealthier nations got a hegemony on everything and don't give a shit about the mexicans unless they can pick tomatoes for seventeen cents an hour.

gimme the stats, dipper!
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby Serendipper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:50 am

promethean75 wrote:here's an angle on the situation.

drugs keep flooding over the border so let's spend a gazillion dollars building a wall. why are drugs coming over the border. well because there's a demand for them. who's demanding them. holy shit. look at this; who's doing all the drugs? the wealthy upper middle classes, or the lower working classes. the lower classes, well because they're miserable and drugs give them the fix they need to get from day to day. they're too goddamn broke and shit's way to fucking expensive to get ahead anyway... might as well buy a bag rather than put that money in a pickle jar, right? well are they miserable because they're on drugs, or are the on drugs because they're miserable? i bet you can guess.

You nailed it!

here's my idea. we seize all the money and assets from the parasites that have it all, redistribute it back to those who produced the wealth (the workers), get them set up in a decent life in which they'll find healthier ways to enjoy themselves, assign them to a job at which they can be productive, lower the demand for drugs and therefore the illegal traffic over the border, remove trump from office and give him a job at bojangles working the fry pit, stop building the wall, and spend that gazillion in more useful ways for the society.

We can't fix the broken, BUT we can improve society so the next generation doesn't suffer the same fate. The sort of person doing drugs, you could give him a million and he'd blow it then be right back where he started. We can't really fix that, but only stop it from happening again.

side note to those imbeciles who believe the left is a threat to the paternal institutions that define conservative ideology. it is precisely the left that will institute the necessary authoritarian structures that will circumvent the excessive freedoms that exist in the free market society that allow the scum bags of the useless lower class to become miserable drug addicts.

Yes, the father of last resort which is probably a better one anyway.

i never tire of hearing the right complain about all the problems of the lower classes... which is the glorious mess that it has made. then the government goes to spending outrageous amounts of money to fix the problems that capitalism creates, while screaming that capitalism is the solution.

Man you're really sharp to see all this that most seem not to be able to see even when it's spelled out.

and another thing. you think all the mexicans would be trying to cross the border if mexican industry were more stablized? and what do you think caused the destablization of that country's economy? lazy mexicans and lack or resources? nope. bad infrastructure? yep. and why is that? because the wealthier nations got a hegemony on everything and don't give a shit about the mexicans unless they can pick tomatoes for seventeen cents an hour.

Yeah capitalism has incentive to keep people hungry and desperate for any wage at all in order to maximize profits. The wealth is sucked from mexico and deposited in the Hamptons and some of it might trickle down to main street when a new yacht is purchased. The shitholes exist to maintain the opulent places.

Think of detroit: an entire industry got up n left leaving huge swaths of people sitting there, went to china to make its products, then sold those products to the same people they left hanging. Some of the people may have had a meager welfare or low-paying shit job (and peddling drugs), but nothing like the factory job of before. What did they expect to happen? So then we need a war on drugs in order to herd some of them into concentration camps to get rid of them, to save on the welfare, and make some cash on the side by putting them to work for 25 cents/hr. Oh it's a real fuckin! Not many people can see it though. I'm beginning to think at least 120 iq is necessary to even grasp it. 100 iq, no way, even if they could get past their arrogance. So that was helmuth nyborg's point that democracy can only exist in countries with a certain average iq.... like 90 I think... on average... minimum. There is much profit to be made in keeping people poor, hungry, and stupid. That's how to capitalize.

Oh I forgot that religion is also necessary to get people to forget this miserable life and concentrate on the next where the streets will be gold.

Oh and then you convince them that paying a gas tax is "fair" because the ones who use the roads should pay for them, nevermind that the trucks the corps use tear up the roads, so the costs of the road is socialized and the profit from its use is privatized.

Oh and then the military is socialized R&D: we pay to design stuff that is sold back to us for profit.

Shit there's like 100 years of smart guys figuring out how to fuck us. The systematic dismantling of everything FDR instituted and erosion of our rights one amendment at a time. Ironically though, the totalitarian corps are turning benevolent. The lone holdouts are the southern bumpkins and ruralites, as you spelled out recently.

Yeah man, you got it! Just put it in intimidating poetic flowery form and start proselytizing on the net! He who has an ear to hear will hear. Don't be nihilist now, this is our asses we're talking about ;)
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:07 pm

we couldn't believe that such a farcical attempt at reason could exist for so long. it literally lasted hundreds of years. the lengths that this type of man - what in bio-economical terms we've defined as an 'ergonomic parasite' - would go to in an effort to defend and justfy his 'right' not to work, was astonishing. and they employed all manner of philosophers to do so. from ontology to religion to economics, they tried to design a comprehensive body of knowledge and science to prove it had to be like this... that it wouldn't work any other way. even the poets and artists went to work under its banner. finally an entire world view was manufactured that captivated everyone, and all for one end; to keep this parasite from having to labor. we had originally thought it was for something more profound... like a genuine attempt to define and understand human nature... and for a while it was convincing. they used darwin, nietzsche, adam smith, and many others to build a theory around the premise that man had to be naturally exploitative and competitive in order to recognize and realize his greatest potential. but then that fell through as so much more dubious speculation already engendered by the momentum of the market revolutions taking place; even philosophy took the new form of production which would mirror the modes of economy now prevalent. a great explosion of productive force over the course of a few decades, and next thing you know, all the philosophers were writing about it as if they had found the philosopher's stone. well of course they were... there was a market for the crap they were writing, so of course they did it. we watched the world spontaneously divide into two classes right before our eyes; the bourgeois team of business owners and philosopher hacks that supported them, and the proletarian team of workers and revolutionary theorists who immediately set to stopping this charade before half of the earth was crawling with them. we quickly won the theoretical war with little effort, wiping the conservative thinkers out. the capitalist theory/practice literally blew itself up... we hardly had to make an effort. now we were waiting for the dialectic of history to fire it off. but we'd never forget this greatest of ironies in the history of man; how could such a centuries long magnificent body of theoretical hot air evolve that would end up proving only one thing for sure? that the parasite type would do anything to come up with an excuse not to work. that's it. that's all it was. what an unbelievable hoax. no great discoveries, no cutting edge scientific knowledge, no pioneering fields of research. nothing. how could it have taken us so long to see through this facade and call this bullshit out? that's the question we ask ourselves, and that we were so long deceived by it is a testament to the extraordinary ability of the lazy creature man to use all of his faculties and sophistication to figure out a way to avoid having to work. now that the revolution is over, we've changed the title of adam smith's 'wealth of nations' to 'how to stay on the couch and get the other guy to do the work'. it's become a bit of an international joke now. we keep it in a museum in which we have on exhibit old capitalism relics. philosophy books, economic equations, novels (we've got all of rand's stuff in a gallery), propaganda art (music and film), all sorts of stuff. it's become quite the tourist attraction.

- Those Damned Blue-Collar Tweekers, 'Reflections on the Revolution', 2067, reprint edition.
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:31 pm

http://sendvid.com/2a0zv293

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby Serendipper » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:52 pm

promethean75 wrote:how could it have taken us so long to see through this facade and call this bullshit out?

Only the greatest thinkers can discover it, and just below them reside the only ones who can be shown. Everyone else sees nonsense, whether through nescience, brainwashing, or pride. Is it any wonder sly ole Chomsky has abandoned his multi-decade crusade only to latch onto climate change?
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:12 pm

so i'm doing sets of push-ups and the old lady's shih-tzu is sitting there watching me. fuck it, i'll talk to him, sure. i say 'i'm doing push-ups, riley... push-ups are good for you' in a soft baby-like voice that people use when talking to dogs. now i know he doesn't understand the linguistic content of what i said, but he does respond to the intonation, pitch, volume, and general tone of my speech. it says to his primitive little brain; this creature is not trying to harm me and appears to want to cooperate with me. i shall therefore not enter into my fight mode and instead continue to observe the behavior of this strange creature pushing the floor away from him.

and then suddenly a thought occurred to me. the most intelligent species on the planet has the custodial responsibility to assist in the evolution of all other species. and it does this by forcing it's culture onto the lower species. if i were to talk to this dog for 30,000 years, there's a good chance i could speed up its evolution and instigate neurological change that would equip the animal with an rudimentary conceptual understanding of my language, yes?
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby Serendipper » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:17 pm

promethean75 wrote:so i'm doing sets of push-ups and the old lady's shih-tzu is sitting there watching me. fuck it, i'll talk to him, sure. i say 'i'm doing push-ups, riley... push-ups are good for you' in a soft baby-like voice that people use when talking to dogs. now i know he doesn't understand the linguistic content of what i said, but he does respond to the intonation, pitch, volume, and general tone of my speech. it says to his primitive little brain; this creature is not trying to harm me and appears to want to cooperate with me. i shall therefore not enter into my fight mode and instead continue to observe the behavior of this strange creature pushing the floor away from him.

The dog is wondering how much longer it has to wait before brainiac finally dispenses food ;)

and then suddenly a thought occurred to me. the most intelligent species on the planet has the custodial responsibility to assist in the evolution of all other species. and it does this by forcing it's culture onto the lower species.

How does one realize what the most intelligent would do?

if i were to talk to this dog for 30,000 years, there's a good chance i could speed up its evolution and instigate neurological change that would equip the animal with an rudimentary conceptual understanding of my language, yes?

How long is that in dog years? :-k

The sound of the rain needs no translation ;)
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Re: Thoughts, Observations and Questions.

Postby promethean75 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:25 pm

wait a minute... go back to the video i posted three posts up. notice anything strange about what that old lady immediately said to me? no, i don't think what compelled her to tell me her husband was dying of cancer, was just some random comment or attempt to garner sympathy from me. and her voice broke a little when she said it. notice that? i think rather that her soul could sense that i'm a healer, and it wanted me to give her and her husband my blessing.

and how did i do it? by ignoring what she said, for to speak with distress and concern for the dying is to already divide the beings-in-the-world frivolously and unnecessarily into dualistic modalities of life and death, modes of being which are not distinct on the plane of immanence. ergo; i should not speak falsely to those for whom such distress is concerned.

"The human mind cannot be absolutely destroyed with the body, but something of it remains which is eternal" - spinoza
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