Animalism, Earthism

From Seeking Alpha’s morning briefing:

Upending the industry? The Trump administration is reaching out to the medical industry for feedback on requiring hospitals, doctors and other healthcare providers to publicly disclose the heretofore confidential prices they charge insurers for services. Needless to say, health insurers, hospitals and most doctors will most certainly push back on the proposal. The public comment period will close Friday, May 3.

That’s what fixing a problem, instead of trying to make the state go broke by hiding stupid inefficient buro-vortexes behind ideas and self-righteousness (universal healthcare) looks like.

First you pull a bit at the knot, test the looser strings. Get a feel for how tangled it is.

How do you know?

What epistemological measures are you taking and what are their respective justifications?

Regurgitated can of alphabet soup.

Why do you think the market value of all items in all transactions constitutes basis for the valuing of a currency?

And if GDP is your reference, then which GDP methodology are you referring to? It changes all the time ya know. Is it 20% by 1950 standards or some other standard or today’s standard or which arbitrary number are you freaking out about? How about we just change the numbers to something you won’t freak out about.

A currency is backed by the faith and credit of the nation issuing it. Currencies can only go up or down in relation to another currency, so if they all print at the same time, then how could any fall in value?

Commodities are valued by supply and demand; amount of money supply is not a variable in the equation.

Japan has printed more than anyone, but the yen won’t go down and prices won’t go up.

Chess is a pretty concrete game. Move X leads to certain possible chains of moves, etc.

Here’s one of his responses to a request for which move is best in a particular board position…

It’s an endemic stylistic characteristic of the Satyr spawn and those they socialize with. Not Satyr himself. Or, let’s say, he manages to be concrete and clear also. But a trait of that subculture that flitted around him.

“amount of money supply is not a variable in the equation.”

Lol, I remember a scandal once in Venezuela when a video surfaced of a Spanish economist from Podemos making this point, that money supply has nothing to do with inflation. It was a scandal because that guy was Maduro’s main economic adviser.

Socialist economist… That’s like saying serial killer human rights activist.

“A currency is backed by the faith and credit of the nation issuing it. Currencies can only go up or down in relation to another currency, so if they all print at the same time, then how could any fall in value?”

Gold. Holy moley.

You hearing this, Mr R?

Print baby, print!

Should the crash have been allowed and millions allowed to starve?

I don’t think that’s the point. No serious person is arguing against taking action when things are threatening to get THAT bad. I’m saying… Well, first I’m saying look at what led to the crash in the first place, an ultra-regulated half-governmental body like Fannie May and Freddy Mac run amok, a body concieved for SOCIALIST purposes etc etc. But more importantly, I’m saying that within that precarious bull Heisenberg describes, the part of the G20 that is going broke is precicely the part that regulated and eased with a socialist bias. Europe, China, “emerging markets” like Brazil and India.

The US, which despite it all maintained its capitalist, free market bias, is standing on much more solid ground and still growing.

Jay pan is a different story.

I won’t get into it now, but I believe Steve Jobs destroyed the Japanese economy.

I feel like I’m missing something… how did chess and Satyr come into play? Animatron fundamentalist minions lobbing propaganda balls before beating brave retreats to safe spaces is how they roll. Disruption is the name of the game.

Observe the appeal of the propagandist:

Money supply is not a variable
You’re wrong because a person who said that was a friend of Maduro. Oh and he was a socialist. Socialism is bad, mkay.

Yeah man, you got me good.

Why gold? So that only those who have the gold will have the power???

Gold is the worst standard of money, followed closely by silver.

You think you’re hurting now? Try a gold standard! :laughing:

No sweetness. You. You are the gold.

That sentence was one of the most beautiful, most endearing things I have ever read.

Oh? Well maybe you’ll graduate to Dr. Seuss soon. Hang onto your hat!

ladies, ladies, please, can we try to continue with at least some modicum of approbation?

i tell ya what… i’d like to try a specific technique i use with my patients during their therapy sessions with me. i do a bit of marriage counseling on the side, and what i’ll have the couple do is a role-reversal; the husband will play the wife and the wife, the husband. this gives each of them the opportunity to portray the other as they see them, which in turn allows each of them to experience each other from the other’s perspective. now what i’d like you two to do is switch roles. i want pedro to argue in favor of socialism, and i want serendipper to argue in favor of capitalism.

That’s easy! Any point the socialist makes, the retort is ad hom, so:

Socialist: Money supply is not a variable in price.
Capitalist: Socialism communism nazi stupid!

Or if the capitalist makes the first point:

Capitalist: Gold!
Socialist: Ben Franklin said gold was the basic cause of the Revolutionary War.
Capitalist: Socialism communism nazi stupid!

Admittedly, I’ve often considered adopting the capitalist persona, but only I’d be honest with my intention to enslave others for my profit to expose it for what it is.

Another plan I’ve been kicking around is enticing a seemingly levelheaded conservative to come here to genuinely argue his position, but you are probably right that only a feigning socialist could pull it off without mudslinging.

I’ll be the capitalist, but a real socialist will have to be my interlocutor. Who wants it? Who is detached enough not to drag emotion into it? (I was capitalist 90% of my life. I got this :wink: ).

you got this, pedro… ain’t nuthin to it but to do it.

pretend you smoked some old pot while stationed in belize
and then you ate a cold pot of cheddar mac 'n cheese
and then you changed to pol pot in levis dungarees
and now you’re spittin protocols
in posts at ILP

tell em how you abolish private property, landlords and they rent
how you throw them niggas in the gulag, make em live in a tent

raise them taxes and obligatory labor
force them capitalists to give up they paper
make education compulsory and stable
demystify the myth of cain and abel

hit em with some feuerbach
how god is a projection
of the human psyche
and if they call you an infidel
ax ‘hey, ya’ll don’t like me’?

tell em you tryin’ to liberate niggas from they fear of god
iconaclastic killer of spooks
like your name’s general zod

superman, i defy you!
don’t let nuthin’ get by you
knockin’ religions out the box
like the fuckin red sox

fuck them niggas, they need to know the troof
assassinatin’ false beliefs
like your name was wilkes booth

opiate of the masses, my asses
make them niggas take classes
on materialism and economics
on lunch break smoke some chronic

college tuition? it ain’t loaned
boring classrooms? we gets stoned
need a doctor? not an issue
gotta cry? here’s a tissue

no more class antagonisms
complete brotherhood
loan your bike to a stranger
like you know you should

it’s second nature
we don’t even think about it anymore
nigga need a ride, here’s my bike
and he’s out the door

but he better bring it back
this ain’t no utopian society
i bust a nigga in his nose
if the muthafucka lie to me

so write a little red book for total indoctrination
chairman pedro I rengel
benevolent dictator
of a whole fuckin nation

got posters of pedro in schools, subways and museums
when niggas ride by they point: ‘did you see him?!’

friend of labor and workers
try to exploit em, he’ll stop ya
leading workers in strikes
like your name’s jimmy hoffa

stop playin’ my nigga and recognize your potential
you come from venezuela so you got the credentials

I’ll quite happily argue in favour of Capitalism if no other pro-Socialists want to.

The way I see it is that regardless of your economic model, the basic work still needs to be done - the work methods will be the same. People still need food, water, shelter et al. and the people who ran the provision of these things before are not going to suddenly forget how to provide these things even if the economic model were to change, nor are they instantly going to provide them better or worse as a result. The infrastructure will still be there, and isn’t going to evolve into the distant future or disappear overnight any more or less than it will day to day while things stay the same.

The question is how best can we maintain and even improve the provision of not only the basics but also any luxuries that people might want on top of that - if additionally possible - in the long run. It’s a question of motivation to get people to do this.

There is intrinsic reward in itself to help others as well as yourself and provide what you and others need/want, but in addition to this, extrinsic reward will motivate even more. For example, one can be provided with more of an equal share of what is produced if they do more than an equal share of providing it. More than this, it is necessary to motivate the organisers and first movers because not everyone has the initiative to get things started in the first place. Once this is done, followers can fall into place. A good way to motivate the leaders is to give them free reign over their means to produce and a sense of responsibility through the private ownership thereof. That way they are personally accountable for the success or failure that they make from their usage. Allowing only voluntary trade will maximise their free reign, even to buy and sell different means of production to best achieve what they want to achieve in the interests of providing what people need/want in exchange for their greater share of what is produced.

Followers are equally free to volunteer their contribution towards production, through the use of the means of production owned by leaders, in exchange for an agreed share of the comparative advantage that their additional involvement adds to what would be produced by just the owner by themselves. Anything left goes to the owner, to accrue over time and either spend on themselves in reward, or on more means of production to supply even more of what people need/want + potentially even greater personal reward in future.

To prevent any abuse, exploitation or fraud, anyone is free to compete for the ownership and operation of means of production in the same or different areas, to attract potential buyers to their more honest production of value. This in turn forces other capitalists to cease their malpractice to win back their share of the market. Prices are kept low to keep business owners in the market in the same way, but not so low that it can’t be afforded to operate the means of production in the first place.

I welcome any criticism by pro-Capitalists of this attempted steelmanning: anything to add or take away.

Then if there are any pro-Capitalists with the honesty and intellectual integrity to steelman any counter positions to what I have argued above (with/without any valid corrections), Socialist or otherwise, without any petty jabs, jibes and insults - in the line with the same courtesy that I have afforded them with the above - please do so.