Why do socialists deserve to not be poor?

Jakob, can you show me one group of intelligent people who identify as conservative?

Enlisted men are more conservative than officers.
Army and Marines are more conservative than Air Force and Navy.
Astrophysicists are more liberal than geologists.
Democratic senators are twice as likely to be in the top 1% of cognitive ability than republican senators.
The most educated states are the most liberal.
The most educated counties are most liberal.
Academia, silicon valley, hollywood talent, NASA engineers, medical professionals are liberal.
The vast majority of notable economists are liberal.

I’ve looked everywhere and cannot find a relatively intelligent group of conservatives. I assert that they do not exist and that conservatism is conditional upon cognitive handicap.

IOW, if not for dummies, conservatism wouldn’t exist.

A brain scan could predict with 82% accuracy whether you are republican or democrat.

journals.plos.org/plosone/artic … ne.0052970

It never ceases to amaze how sternly Socialists believe that money grows on trees and Capitalists just happen by these trees unfairly to pluck the cash before Socialists happen by. Like how ILPers believe that if Einstein hadnt existed there would have been a thousand other people to formulate his theory.

Socialism is at heart and most succinctly described as anti-meritocracy; a form of idealism that reaches for every possible way to negate the phenomenon of merit.
What any socialist regime does first and foremost is to outlaw talent, and in general any forms of intelligence that cant be easily categorized in terms of designated slave labor, which is all the labor socialism is capable of employing.

As parasites and nothing besides, socialists thus also always come streaming and pouring into Capitalist countries to suck them dry, and using the resources given to them by capitalists to shit on everything theyve been given and especially on the people that made it happen for them.

Man, I am glad I will never know what it feels like to be a Socialist.

Thank you gods.

Money doesn’t grow on trees; that’s too slow. Money comes from thin air.

youtube.com/watch?v=qIxhsF6JLEA
youtube.com/watch?v=p3_Q1SiRN-A

That’s capitalism which values luck and sucking up over talent.

Capitalism is the conscription into servitude and the theft of worker productivity.

Brave Sir Robin has trouble reading. People are flocking to socialist countries: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=194766

What does it feel like to be missing an insula? Constant hate and fear? Oh, yeah, that must suck.

My point is that you know exactly how it feels like to be a Socialist when you are a Capitalist trying to figure out how it feels to be Socialist.

And that’s all you’re doing.

As a lover of wisdom, aren’t you interested in the slightest in the possibility of wisdom in the enemy?

Sure, many people are parasites - Socialists and Capitalists alike. Streaming and pouring to suck people dry? How about the justification for profit as revenue > expenses. The purpose of this is to be a legitimatised incentive for the talented to get an unfair advantage - perfect! Now how many other people need to be incentivised and by how many degrees of magnitude do they need to outnumber the talented?
Are you telling me that the talented could provide entire societies with the required goods and services that they helped build… by themselves? What do you do with the countless relatively disincentivised others to enable them to do the legwork to actualise the creations of the talented minority? So far the solution is to dangle poverty in front of them and use fear to force them to sell their labour to the talented, and it works. This is Capitalism. Can it be improved?

You’re a philosopher, right? Tell me it can’t be improved and why.
When considering the whole picture, all elements of the economy simultaneously - why is incentivising the minority the best for everyone.
Is it worse or better that among the disincentivised majority you may have talented prospectives drowning when they could otherwise be improving things for everyone?

Ha.

A capitalist has no illusions, He know life is hard, it is do or die.

A socialist thinks of the production process as ganging up and “getting paid”.

He pays no concern to the three hundred engineers that went to school, probably half of them deep in debt for it, to design such magnificent machinery, or the brilliance of the architects studying at those expensive institutions, the universities, or the tradition of metallurgy and the countless casualties that went in the process, or any of the magnificent merits that went before his power to work in the factory and do his part, and get paid a quantity of actual buying power which he can freely spend, after taxes.

What I mean is what I said. The socialist isnt a complete literate, he isnt a student of history or an appreciator of human nature. Not a knower of magnificence. He doesnt know his place in the great order of human effort, which is sustained by molecular effort carrying the massive binding forces of the shifting quarks, all of which is unfathomable except through the means of concentrated capital.

I wish we could debate on that level, of the stages of the industrialization of capital. Marx thought it is about the worker, but it is not, it is about the power to create. Mankind unlocks the secrets to his own existence through the vessel of what the Socialist sees as greed, but which is simply gratitude. When man recognizes the investment of power that he is, he ceases to demand, and he begins to forge. By the means of the gifts he forges for his fellow man he forges his own destiny.

‘Man made the trains
to carry the heavy load’

That song is really at the core of things. Socialism is “what women want”, all movie references intended. It is not what they need.

The engineers who built the facility were also workers who were exploited. Hello! We’re talking a looooooong chain of exploitation just to get to the point of exploiting the regular factory worker.

Hell, I told the story on ILP before of the software engineer who saved the company $1 million, but was laughed at when he asked if he could have some of the savings. Probably the reason it saved the company so much is it found a novel way to further fuck the workers.

I wish we could debate at all, but you’re a propaganda dispensing robot that doesn’t seem to have appropriate relevant reactions that would cause one to believe you’ve understood anything said.

You’re a spilled can of alphabet soup with the curious eccentricity of always managing to spell-out “socialism is bad, mkay” amidst the otherwise random rubble and pompous poppycock you continually regurgitate.

Have you no shame whatsoever? Have you eaten too much aluminum? Have you began any strange new medications? What the hell is wrong with you? A couple months ago you were talking to me like a regular human, the sopranos n shit, now it’s as if you’re aspiring to be the biggest jerk possible.

Well fine, because I can’t imagine any fair-minded individual reflecting on those such as you and Pedro as representatives of your side to be painting anything other than an ugly picture and being a troll with intent to disrupt rather than discuss. IOW, keep up the good work!

The Defamation of Socialism

Great song.

Serendipper you haven’t addressed any of my or Rengels arguments in the past months. You’re almost as shameless as Iambiguous in this respect. But all that is par for the socialist course.

Maybe there are socialists who are nodding their heads at your posts. None of them will ever accomplish anything noteworthy. And yet they may feel some recognition. I’m trying to see a bright side to your performance.

I don’t have any hope that you will address any of the basic ideas Rengel and I have been explicating. It is clear, you consider creation to be oppression. Okay man. Have a good life with that.

Brave Sir Robin, you are a strong contender, but Pedro has the MVP title for now. You’ll have to dig deeper and see how low you can go!

Just how bad can you portray your position? :evilfun:

An actual Capitalist is intending to make their life easier by making their money (i.e. others/workers) do the work for them, but yes what you say is often true of advocates of Capitalism who aren’t actually capitalists but work for capitalists - often you do see them powering through the workload making their Capitalist employer(s) very rich and remaining relatively poor themselves like good obedient slaves. The former doesn’t have to be an engineer to start an engineering company or to start a company that requires engineering - this is when you simply hire in the latter to be paid less than they earn you. Entrepreneurialism is a different skill to Management is a different skill to Operations: the first is knowing how things work inter-business, the second is knowing how things work intra-business, the third is knowing the work. The first is something of a creative skill, which even Conservative anti-Socialists like Jordan Peterson admit are the liberals - that is to say, like Bill Gates and Elon Musk, their personal sympathies are socialist even if their professional practices are capitalist - they have a clear love of what they do for its own sake and would have created regardless the economic model. Even people who got rich by moving money around and not actually creating anything themselves, like Warren Buffet, can have personal socialist sympathies. Most of the richest names aren’t actually creators at all, just money-movers who only make their life hard by competing so hard to to win the gambling game. There’s even a type of personality that supports Capitalism despite not being a capitalist, because they envy them and dream of the spoils that they enjoy but without a creative impulse in their body and often without work ethic. They neither want life to be hard, or to do or die - they want most of all for others to be less rich than they are even if they are not “yet” rich: the capitalist in their personal sympathies, but you might say socialist in professional practice - though I would disagree with that latter part.

In short, this forced dichotomy of yours breaks down as soon as you apply it to real people. It seems very much to me as though you are trying to force practice to fit your theory rather than fitting your theory around the practice. The former is the kind of thing religious apologists do, which fits your non-question-asking preaching, where the latter is the kind of thing scientists do, which is what I as a Socialist sympathiser am recommending to you. So ironically, the realm of those who you are praising as bastions of Capitalism: the engineers and scientists who create new technologies are not dogmatic like your argument here. Basically you’re telling a Socialist to be more like they are, but with the label of what they are not. And you advocate using the means of the kind of person you are against - it’s all backwards and doubly ironic that you support having no illusions. I am trying to help you here, but I think you would rather reinforce your understanding to yourself than discuss reality.

Unfortunately for your argument, I went to university to study mechanical engineering. I can tell you that there was not a hint of politics or economics amongst my contemporaries, we were all just kids - some of them simply with a love for machines. I had no idea what I was doing, I was just following my strong mathematical and scientific prior trajectory - and you might think it supports your argument that I actually switched courses, but I switched to business studies i.e. the study of how the whole system works under Capitalism - that was much more full of people wanting to get rich than engineering was. There were economics modules in there and even optional ones that I spent on philosophy - the whole thing was just me figuring myself out, because like I said - everyone was just a kid back then: nobody was some kind of capitalist hero like you’re trying to make out, least of all the engineers.

The history department at my uni were lefties - isn’t this what capitalists are supposed to be complaining about: that education has been too dominated by the left (an argument for equality of outcome if I ever heard one!)? And here you are saying socialists aren’t students of history or appreciators of human nature… the truth is basically the exact opposite. Pretty much everything you’re saying is backwards when compared to a concrete look at what is actually going on…

So what will debating on this level do? It will allow you to repeat your indoctrinated ideology over and over, and enable me to correct it in light of reality - the tennis game will continue until we get frustrated and angry, and we will get nowhere…

This is why I offered to leave you to it if you were just here to preach your religion.

I’d just like to add that I don’t have any problem with people getting rich, but just the exploitation of people to do it.

If you make products all by yourself, or employ machines to do so, then I applaud your getting rich as possible, but one can’t get very rich that way. No, it takes armies of employees contributing their productivity to one man for him to amass truly uncountable wealth. Of course, corporate welfare helps too. Also, share-buybacks, accounting gimmickry, fraud rewarded by small fines and wrist-slaps, and a central bank committed to supporting share prices.

Bezos became a billionaire running a company that never made a dime of profit in 16 years.

Musk became a billionaire running a company that not only never made a dime, but burns millions per month.

How do I start a company that burns millions and become a billionaire and then convince all the retards to cheer me for the service while on their way to cash their social security checks?

But that doesn’t fit with Jakob’s narrative, is that allowed?

I think you need him to re-iterate his position a few more times to help you realise that what you believe is something else to what it actually is.

What Socialists, aka international nazis, deserve is what nazis will always get in the end.

Dangerous hordes of miserable quasi beings obstructing everything good and decent in an “effort” to reduce the entire realm of species to death and if that can’t be accomplished, to absolute misery.
That is literally all that Socialism is.

Once upon a time it may have had the connotation of some decency, with some rare not-corrupt union leaders. But even then the basic logic was sadistic. It always has been a world of sadists, Socialism.

“whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.” - nietzsche

“sometimes one must become a monster to defeat a monster” - prometheus75

:obscene-birdiered:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjlgUx7_aN0[/youtube]

Brave Sir Robin, it now appears the soothing light at the end of your tunnel was just a freight train heading your way :laughing:

Let’s dance!

:banana-guitar:

I am just very grateful to not be you.

Please find it in yourself to entertain yourself without trying constantly to touch me. I know it is unlikely you’ll manage to make your own path. But I express the wish that you try. I do not want you anywhere near me.

This case is closed, then. My question has been answered more vividly than I asked for.

Socialists are genocidal thugs. What they deserve is what Eichmann deserved.

the feeling’s mutual, bub. and don’t let the dialectical door of history hit you on the ass on your way out!

I dunno guys…

Agreeing to disagree can be healthy for the purposes of accepting differences and moving on, but this apparent cadence just seems nothing but divisive and hostile.

The acceptance here is that everyone not “on your side” is a lost cause and “othered”, which is an effective pre-requisite for “justified” anger, hatred and violence. If there are any here who actually want this, then I think you are fools who know nothing of how bad even the slightest physical feud can get - or worse, you do know and want it anyway.

There have been hints of some just waiting for the chance to justify “othering” those in the wrong tribe, and perhaps there are arguments both for and against the inevitability and innateness of such tendencies, but let it be known that I neither support nor condone the emotional “us and them” mentality.

There are rational grounds to distinguish certain things from other things, but these do not depend on emotion - they are independent of emotion and ought not to arouse emotion when there is a legitimate rational distinction. One rock parted from another rock is not grounds for war.

I do not differentiate the capitalists from the working class through emotion, but by simple fact - no different from the cow goes moo and the dog says woof. There is factually a different way that they respectively use money, and one I support and the other I do not. And I do not make this distinction as a result of which one I prefer, but as a matter of fact - of which one works better than the other.

I am prepared to be swayed either way, but so far I see more evidence that one works better than the other. I am open to more evidence and I would encourage all others to put aside your unquestioned loyalties to “us” or “them”, but instead to evidence or lack thereof.