Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Serendipper

“Works done consciously are useless to salvation.”

Salvation where you cannot save yourself suggests that you have been condemned for a huge sin.

What was it and was it fair for God to sentence you to hell?

Regards
DL

Have you dithered out what Jesus wrote in the sand and had him forego judgement?

Hint. What was missing for the case?

Regards
DL

Life didn’t have an origin.

How does theism explain the origin of god? God/life cannot originate.

If life could originate, it would have to originate from nonlife, which is impossible.

Greatest U R wrote:

Huh? please explain

Huh? please explain

Serendipper wrote:

So… how did man begin?

Not necessarily. If the only sin is arrogance, then the only way to get to condemnation is to try to save yourself. We are not condemned until we suppose we are, then try to prevent it.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

I’m a pantheist/panvitalist, so god sentencing himself to hell doesn’t make sense.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

You are your own judge and if you want to send yourself to hell, then it’s what you want.

I figure he was writing the sins of the people ready to stone the woman.

The accuser: Satan.

Evolved from lower forms of life, but life itself had no beginning just as you believe God had no beginning.

Serendipper wrote:

and how did these other lower forms of life begin?

What? You are going to have to explain this in more detail.

@Greatest

All modern technologies have primitive roots, but that doesn’t make them equivalent.

I’m an agnostic, not an atheist.
I have personally seen several phenomena I regard as inexplicable in my life time.
Billions of people have, including many of our best and brightest.
Perhaps parts of the bible are loosely based on some supernatural, or preternatural experiences Jews had with the supreme being, if there is one, or with entities.
So if the story of the bible resonates with people, I take no issue with that.

That was his opinion, there’re many Rabbis who’d vehemently disagree with him.
I have also studied the Torah, and there’s a hell of a lot more to it than that on so many levels: ethically, historically, racially, metaphysically, spiritually…
You’re trying to reduce and oversimplify it.
Someone has taught you to do that.
While that particular writer (or writers) may’ven’t had an agenda, nonetheless they can still be used for one.
The more abstract something is, the more we can all believe in it.
If your objective is multiculturalism in white nations only, you could see why the deep state would push for that.

Pretty sure Jesus, insofar as he existed, claimed to be divine, or at least his disciples, insofar as they existed, did on his behalf, tho perhaps it’s open to interpretation.

Jesus was a homophobe and misogynist by modern standards.
While he taught forgiveness of sin, he still regarded gay sex as sin.
And while he valued men and women equally, he believed women were the ‘weaker vessel’.

I don’t think there’s any scholarly proof for that.

So the whole of the Torah is not simply the golden rule after all? :-k

Now I see where you are coming from.

As long as you are not idol worshiping Yahweh, a genocidal prick, then we have no argument.

I take it that you have rejected supernaturalstupid thinking.

To you, heaven and hell are here and now. Right?

I agree with that view and that heaven and hell are our perception of reality.

Regards
DL

This is a good argument and I tried to show a logic trail for a new O.P.

Please advise if I have fleshed out your idea in a way you would approve in what follows.


Evolution, to a believer, must be seen as real, but not having a beginning, if God has life.

Evolution is an explanation of how life began.

God, if he were real, is said to have eternal life without a beginning. If God is eternal, and has life, then life must also be eternal and without a beginning just as is attributed to God.

Therefore, life and evolution of life must, to a believer; be eternal and without a beginning just like God.

Life then, to a believer; had no beginning just as believers believe God had no beginning. God is life.

This fits well into the law of evolution, which posits that life came to earth from space, which provided the earth with the building blocks of human life.

If an evolving process like evolution is real, which it is, then any original version of God must be in a constant state of evolution and change. That is what makes God unknowable.

Is life, to intelligent believers, eternal and without a beginning?

Regards
DL

See if this makes sense to you.

========

Evolution, to a believer, must be seen as real, but not having a beginning, if God has life.

Evolution is an explanation of how life began.

God, if he were real, is said to have eternal life without a beginning. If God is eternal, and has life, then life must also be eternal and without a beginning just as is attributed to God.

Therefore, life and evolution of life must, to a believer; be eternal and without a beginning just like God.

Life then, to a believer; had no beginning just as believers believe God had no beginning. God is life.

This fits well into the law of evolution, which posits that life came to earth from space, which provided the earth with the building blocks of human life.

If an evolving process like evolution is real, which it is, then any original version of God must be in a constant state of evolution and change. That is what makes God unknowable.

Is life, to intelligent believers, eternal and without a beginning?

Regards
DL

I do as their resonation to a belief that a genocidal son murderer can somehow be good is showing a satanic moral sense. Satan loves the Christians that the bible resonates with.

That was his opinion, there’re many Rabbis who’d vehemently disagree with him.
I have also studied the Torah, and there’s a hell of a lot more to it than that on so many levels: ethically, historically, racially, metaphysically, spiritually…
You’re trying to reduce and oversimplify it.
Someone has taught you to do that.
While that particular writer (or writers) may’ven’t had an agenda, nonetheless they can still be used for one.
The more abstract something is, the more we can all believe in it.
If your objective is multiculturalism in white nations only, you could see why the deep state would push for that.
[/quote]

[/quote]
Yes, I was taught, likely self taught, to KIS.

The Torah and how it’s writings are defined and understood is controlled by the oral tradition that the Karaites Jews control. Karaites lead the religion to where they want it to go.

As in the days of the Divine Council, Karaites continue put man above God. Not surprising as all the Gods are man made.

Do not make Jews less intelligent than they are. If they were foolish in their views, then so are Christians who usurped their religion and God.

Regards
DL

Yes. I agree with the Jews and intelligentsia who know it is all a myth that tries to explain God.

I believe that Gnostic Christian thinking is older than Christianity from the fact that Christianity usurped what I believe were the holy books of the founders of Gnostic Christian, the Chrestians.

youtube.com/watch?feature=p … At-PAkgqls

Regards
DL

Explain how god began and you will have answered you own questions, just substitute “life” for “god”. Is god alive or not?

As I said, life could not have begun because if it had, then it would have emerged from nonlife, which is impossible.

I tried that, but realized I was worshiping someone who threatened and punished me in order that I’d love him. Yahweh is a petulant child created by a primitive people.

I don’t believe in supernatural or artificial. Anything and everything is natural.

Yeah I guess. I think I need a definition to work with and a celestial north korea with praising dear leader all day is not a good definition of heaven. Any definition of heaven would eventually get old and boring and I’d wind up right back here in the midst of randomness and surprise. I woke up this morning thinking that the reason this place exists is that the other place, whether blissful or not, was unfulfilling. Why else have this world?

The interaction of me and not-me is what I call reality. Me and not-me are two poles of the same thing.

reality.jpg

Evolution explains how life changes complexity, but can’t explain the beginning since life cannot have a beginning or else life came from nonlife. If life came from nonlife, it would simply mean that nonlife was actually a process of life. If life came from stars, then it simply means stars are a process necessary to life and must be considered alive in that way. Go all the way back through an infinite regression and we can never come to a point where something could be considered not-alive.

What does it mean to be alive?

In 1964, James Lovelock was among a group of scientists who were requested by NASA to make a theoretical life detection system to look for life on Mars during the upcoming space mission. When thinking about this problem, Lovelock wondered “how can we be sure that Martian life, if any, will reveal itself to tests based on Earth’s lifestyle?”[8] To Lovelock, the basic question was “What is life, and how should it be recognized?” When speaking about this issue with some of his colleagues at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, he was asked what he would do to look for life on Mars. To this, Lovelock replied “I’d look for an entropy reduction, since this must be a general characteristic of life.”[8] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_a … ve_entropy

So if organization is life, there where is non-life? Atoms are not organized? Stars squish hydrogen into helium and carbon and that’s not an entropy reduction? What about gravity? Mars itself is a reduction of entropy from the cloud of star dust accreted into a big ball we now call a planet. The real question here is not how to find life, but how to find nonlife.

Well, we can take the view that life is a complicated form of matter or that matter is a simple form of life. I prefer the latter because it eliminates explaining how life came from lifeless matter. So in my view, there is nothing that is not alive; never was and never will be.

These critters look alive in their own right to me:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjPcT1uUZiE[/youtube]

Start at 27:00 here:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyhZcEY5PCQ[/youtube]

So the believer thinks that god always existed and god is life and god created all that exists and then breathed life into it. That’s not much different than the way I see it except that the creation process is an extension of himself: god has 100% control over everything that exists like I have 100% control over the movement of my arm, so what exists is the dream, thought, idea of god which exists as a construct of the fabric of god and created from nothing like dreams we have that exist only in our heads and made of the stuff of our brains.

My axiom is that god cannot create anything that is not of himself and therefore everything is made of god. The reason for that is distinct things cannot exist in relation to each other. God cannot be disconnected from everything else and also interact with it; if he interacts, then he is part of it.

Distinctiveness is the distinction between myself and believers: I don’t believe in separate things, but they do.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdnZiv24fLc[/youtube]

the message of Billy Graham is
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approximately what I’ve given you and of
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all what I will call fundamentalist
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forms of catholicism and protestantism.
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What would the real gospel be; the real
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good news? It’s not simply that Jesus of
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Nazareth was the son of God, but that he
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was a powerful son of God, who came to
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open everybody’s eyes to the fact that
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you are too. And this is perfectly plain
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if you will go to the tenth chapter of
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St John verse 30, there is the passage
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where Jesus says “I and the father are
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one”. And this is… there are some people
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who are not intimate disciples around,
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and they are horrified, and they
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immediately pick up stones to stone him.
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He says “many good works I have shown you
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from the father and for which of these
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do you stone me?” And they said “for a good
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work we stone you not, but for blasphemy,
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because you being a man make yourself
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God.” And he replied “isn’t it written in
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your law: I have said you are God’s?” He’s
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quoting the 82nd Psalm. “Is it not
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written in your law ‘I have said you are
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gods’? If God called them those to whom he
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gave his word ‘gods’ and you can’t deny
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the scriptures,
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how can you say I blaspheme because I
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said ‘I am a son of God’?”
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Well that’s the whole thing in a
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nutshell. Because if you read the King
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James Bible that descended with the
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angel,
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you will see in italics in front of
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these words “son of God” the Son of God,
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because I said I am the son of God, and
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most people think that the italics are
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for emphasis;
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they’re not. The italics indicate words
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interpolated by the translators. You will
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not find that in the Greek. In the Greek
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says a son of God. So it seems to me here
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perfectly plain that Jesus is God in the
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back of his mind that this isn’t
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something peculiar to himself, so when he
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says “I am the way, no man comes to the
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Father but by me”,
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this “I am” this “me” is the divine in us.

this
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discovery is the gospel that is the good
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news,
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but this has been perpetually repressed
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throughout the history of Western
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religion because all Western religions
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have taken the form of celestial
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monarchies and therefore have
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discouraged democracy in the kingdom of
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heaven.