Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

I make no psychic claims.

I make a logical inference that a Jesus who pushed the Golden Rule, would treat women as gays as he would if he were a woman or a gay.

As to usurping our original Chrestian God ideas the same way Christianity usurped Yahweh from the Jews, I get that from this link.

youtube.com/watch?feature=p … At-PAkgqls

There is nothing unique to Christianity as it is a religion that came from a consolidation of many of the older and wiser thinking systems.

Regards
DL

Greatest u r and Gloominary

Am I to understand that both of you believe in Evolution?

If so tell me, how does Evolution explain the origin of life.

In a better way than religions do.
I will admit that both religions and science have stalled at the big bang, that most major religions recognize as good science, and are now both positing their own versions of Gods of the Gap.

How do you explain talking serpents and donkeys?

How much supernatural garbage will you swallow before you recognize you are being lied to?

If you do not believe in evolution, a proven theory and now a law, then you are in league with the fundamental fools.

Regards
DL

Now that you mention it, I guess you’re right. I suppose God has his own yetzer hara.

I have a novel take on the eden story. It wasn’t that man became aware of the existence of good and evil by suddenly becoming smart, but that he asserted good and evil exists by becoming arrogant. It was the assertion that good and evil exist, not the discovery that good and evil exist.

God asked “Who told you that you are naked?” That didn’t mean “Who revealed to you that you are naked?” but instead “Who convinced you that you are naked?” or “Who told you nakedness can be either good or bad?”

Eating the fruit was the birth of religion. The fruit was more of a hallucinogenic drug rather than a brain-boost.

It was definitely the fall of man. Now he needs to eat from “the tree of the knowledge that good and evil are bullshit” to regain ground.

That’s essentially how I used to interpret the story. Now I see arrogance as the only possible sin, but I don’t know what it’s a sin against.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The only reason to have works (good works / bad works) is to brag either to other people or to god about how righteous we are. Works done consciously are useless to salvation.

Formerly I boasted before the guys of my sins, now I boast before the lord of my good deeds. Chains of iron traded for chains of gold.

Matthew 6
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Proverbs 11:2 When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.

Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Proverbs 14:3 In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them.

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 29:23 A man’s pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

Proverbs 16:5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. That was one of my favorite passages, but I discovered it was added late. Some scribe pulled it from his ass and attributed it to Jesus.

Serendipper

“Works done consciously are useless to salvation.”

Salvation where you cannot save yourself suggests that you have been condemned for a huge sin.

What was it and was it fair for God to sentence you to hell?

Regards
DL

Have you dithered out what Jesus wrote in the sand and had him forego judgement?

Hint. What was missing for the case?

Regards
DL

Life didn’t have an origin.

How does theism explain the origin of god? God/life cannot originate.

If life could originate, it would have to originate from nonlife, which is impossible.

Greatest U R wrote:

Huh? please explain

Huh? please explain

Serendipper wrote:

So… how did man begin?

Not necessarily. If the only sin is arrogance, then the only way to get to condemnation is to try to save yourself. We are not condemned until we suppose we are, then try to prevent it.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

I’m a pantheist/panvitalist, so god sentencing himself to hell doesn’t make sense.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

You are your own judge and if you want to send yourself to hell, then it’s what you want.

I figure he was writing the sins of the people ready to stone the woman.

The accuser: Satan.

Evolved from lower forms of life, but life itself had no beginning just as you believe God had no beginning.

Serendipper wrote:

and how did these other lower forms of life begin?

What? You are going to have to explain this in more detail.

@Greatest

All modern technologies have primitive roots, but that doesn’t make them equivalent.

I’m an agnostic, not an atheist.
I have personally seen several phenomena I regard as inexplicable in my life time.
Billions of people have, including many of our best and brightest.
Perhaps parts of the bible are loosely based on some supernatural, or preternatural experiences Jews had with the supreme being, if there is one, or with entities.
So if the story of the bible resonates with people, I take no issue with that.

That was his opinion, there’re many Rabbis who’d vehemently disagree with him.
I have also studied the Torah, and there’s a hell of a lot more to it than that on so many levels: ethically, historically, racially, metaphysically, spiritually…
You’re trying to reduce and oversimplify it.
Someone has taught you to do that.
While that particular writer (or writers) may’ven’t had an agenda, nonetheless they can still be used for one.
The more abstract something is, the more we can all believe in it.
If your objective is multiculturalism in white nations only, you could see why the deep state would push for that.

Pretty sure Jesus, insofar as he existed, claimed to be divine, or at least his disciples, insofar as they existed, did on his behalf, tho perhaps it’s open to interpretation.

Jesus was a homophobe and misogynist by modern standards.
While he taught forgiveness of sin, he still regarded gay sex as sin.
And while he valued men and women equally, he believed women were the ‘weaker vessel’.

I don’t think there’s any scholarly proof for that.

So the whole of the Torah is not simply the golden rule after all? :-k

Now I see where you are coming from.

As long as you are not idol worshiping Yahweh, a genocidal prick, then we have no argument.

I take it that you have rejected supernaturalstupid thinking.

To you, heaven and hell are here and now. Right?

I agree with that view and that heaven and hell are our perception of reality.

Regards
DL

This is a good argument and I tried to show a logic trail for a new O.P.

Please advise if I have fleshed out your idea in a way you would approve in what follows.


Evolution, to a believer, must be seen as real, but not having a beginning, if God has life.

Evolution is an explanation of how life began.

God, if he were real, is said to have eternal life without a beginning. If God is eternal, and has life, then life must also be eternal and without a beginning just as is attributed to God.

Therefore, life and evolution of life must, to a believer; be eternal and without a beginning just like God.

Life then, to a believer; had no beginning just as believers believe God had no beginning. God is life.

This fits well into the law of evolution, which posits that life came to earth from space, which provided the earth with the building blocks of human life.

If an evolving process like evolution is real, which it is, then any original version of God must be in a constant state of evolution and change. That is what makes God unknowable.

Is life, to intelligent believers, eternal and without a beginning?

Regards
DL

See if this makes sense to you.

========

Evolution, to a believer, must be seen as real, but not having a beginning, if God has life.

Evolution is an explanation of how life began.

God, if he were real, is said to have eternal life without a beginning. If God is eternal, and has life, then life must also be eternal and without a beginning just as is attributed to God.

Therefore, life and evolution of life must, to a believer; be eternal and without a beginning just like God.

Life then, to a believer; had no beginning just as believers believe God had no beginning. God is life.

This fits well into the law of evolution, which posits that life came to earth from space, which provided the earth with the building blocks of human life.

If an evolving process like evolution is real, which it is, then any original version of God must be in a constant state of evolution and change. That is what makes God unknowable.

Is life, to intelligent believers, eternal and without a beginning?

Regards
DL

I do as their resonation to a belief that a genocidal son murderer can somehow be good is showing a satanic moral sense. Satan loves the Christians that the bible resonates with.

That was his opinion, there’re many Rabbis who’d vehemently disagree with him.
I have also studied the Torah, and there’s a hell of a lot more to it than that on so many levels: ethically, historically, racially, metaphysically, spiritually…
You’re trying to reduce and oversimplify it.
Someone has taught you to do that.
While that particular writer (or writers) may’ven’t had an agenda, nonetheless they can still be used for one.
The more abstract something is, the more we can all believe in it.
If your objective is multiculturalism in white nations only, you could see why the deep state would push for that.
[/quote]

[/quote]
Yes, I was taught, likely self taught, to KIS.

The Torah and how it’s writings are defined and understood is controlled by the oral tradition that the Karaites Jews control. Karaites lead the religion to where they want it to go.

As in the days of the Divine Council, Karaites continue put man above God. Not surprising as all the Gods are man made.

Do not make Jews less intelligent than they are. If they were foolish in their views, then so are Christians who usurped their religion and God.

Regards
DL